Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

[Chewy]

Yeah most of her stuff has sucked. If I'm being honest though most of the Iron Man comics are completely boring, tedious ****. Just as idiot writers felt Ms Marvel had to be raped and turned into a drunk to be interesting, writers felt Stark had to be turned into a drunk and a wholesale villain to be interesting. His entire rogues gallery except for, like, 4 of them are brainless thugs. Outside of the cave stuff and the very basic characteristics of Pepper, Rhodes, Stane and Hammer, the two Iron Man movies were mostly new stories, with the third movie being adapted out of a recent, popular arc.

The Thor movie, the Avengers movie, even the Cap movie were amalgamations of several different story arcs and original ideas, taking what worked and throwing out what hadn't.

 

[marcvader]

My problem with a Ms. Marvel movie isn't that she's less popular than Thor, it's that there's nothing to actually fall back on. They basically would be developing the character, more than adapting. You have to ignore/ rewrite 90% of history, because 90% of her history doesn't stand alone, and is completely dependent on other characters, or is just bad.

I agree with all of this.

 

[KangConquers]

Yeah most of her stuff has sucked. If I'm being honest though most of the Iron Man comics are completely boring, tedious ****. Just as idiot writers felt Ms Marvel had to be raped and turned into a drunk to be interesting, writers felt Stark had to be turned into a drunk and a wholesale villain to be interesting. His entire rogues gallery except for, like, 4 of them are brainless thugs. Outside of the cave stuff and the very basic characteristics of Pepper, Rhodes, Stane and Hammer, the two Iron Man movies were mostly new stories, with the third movie being adapted out of a recent, popular arc.

The Thor movie, the Avengers movie, even the Cap movie were amalgamations of several different story arcs and original ideas, taking what worked and throwing out what hadn't.

I thought Iron Man 1 did a very good job taking two important arcs (his origin, and his arc with Stane) and fitting them together. Obviously Stane was heavily retooled, but I wouldn't say Iron Man required nearly as much work as Ms. Marvel would.

A Directly adapted Ms. Marvel trilogy would be

Movie 1: Follow a cosmic superhero around for several years. Finally gain his powers, watch him die of cancer. Fight anthropomorphic Dinosaur people.
Movie 2: Get raped by a time traveler, get de-powered and dropped like a sack of **** into the San Francisco bay. Write a novel.
Movie 3: Become an alcoholic, get court martialed and kicked out of the Avengers. Get conditionally released into their custody, like a child. Play a supporting role on the team.

 

[Chewy]

Movie 1: Follow a cosmic superhero around for several years. Finally gain his powers, watch him die of cancer. Fight anthropomorphic Dinosaur people.
Movie 2: Get raped by a time traveler, get de-powered and dropped like a sack of **** into the San Francisco bay. Write a novel.
Movie 3: Become an alcoholic, get court martialed and kicked out of the Avengers. Get conditionally released into their custody, like a child. Play a supporting role on the team.

At least it's not derivative

But my point is that none of these characters are getting direct adaptations. Otherwise Thor's first movie would have been about a crippled doctor who sexually harasses his nurse, then turns into a god and punches Mr. Hyde and Cobra in the face

 

[KangConquers]

At least it's not derivative

But my point is that none of these characters are getting direct adaptations. Otherwise Thor's first movie would have been about a crippled doctor who sexually harasses his nurse, then turns into a god and punches Mr. Hyde and Cobra in the face

I would actually prefer that to Kat Dennings character, but that's for another time I guess.

 

[The Strategos]

I laughed a lot with that character but I can see how she would irritate lol ! But getting back to Ms Marvel I think a very salient point has been raised which I hadn't thought of - what is she? Where is the angle, where is the edge? Iron Man, arrogant but trying to be better industrialist genious builds a cool suit with limitless technology. Cap, weak-bodied but loyal and couragous patriot gets body he needed to be the man he was inside. How can Carol be boiled down into something cool and punchy? At the moment I'm fresh out of ideas.

 

[Human Torch]

They can build on her original tag line: "This female fights back!"

 

[KangConquers]

I laughed a lot with that character but I can see how she would irritate lol ! But getting back to Ms Marvel I think a very salient point has been raised which I hadn't thought of - what is she? Where is the angle, where is the edge? Iron Man, arrogant but trying to be better industrialist genious builds a cool suit with limitless technology. Cap, weak-bodied but loyal and couragous patriot gets body he needed to be the man he was inside. How can Carol be boiled down into something cool and punchy? At the moment I'm fresh out of ideas.

I could actually see Carol becoming like Blade, where the adaptation of the character winds up informing the comic book version. I don't think a definitive version of Carol Danvers has been reached yet, and I don't think that comic writers have ever found a niche for her in the MU (beyond being Avenger recruit #23, and flying around and punching other people's archenemies.)

 

[spideymouse]

I could actually see Carol becoming like Blade, where the adaptation of the character winds up informing the comic book version. I don't think a definitive version of Carol Danvers has been reached yet, and I don't think that comic writers have ever found a niche for her in the MU (beyond being Avenger recruit #23, and flying around and punching other people's archenemies.)

I think when we've discussed plot/characterization in this thread (maybe like 5% of the time, haha), we fans here have thought up some good ideas. A lot of them stem from how the A:EMH cartoon adapted her, and in my mind, I would not mind seeing a similar characterization on the big screen. What Marvel has here is an opportunity to reinvent a character in a potentially groundbreaking way, and I don't think that needs to be cause for cynicism.

 

[KangConquers]

I think when we've discussed plot/characterization in this thread (maybe like 5% of the time, haha), we fans here have thought up some good ideas. A lot of them stem from how the A:EMH cartoon adapted her, and in my mind, I would not mind seeing a similar characterization on the big screen. What Marvel has here is an opportunity to reinvent a character in a potentially groundbreaking way, and I don't think that needs to be cause for cynicism.

Very true. If Marvel can salvage a character who hasn't really managed to carve out a great niche in 45 years of existence, that's cause for celebration.

 

[Chewy]

The biggest thing she needs is an archenemy. There's good material for an origin movie and there are places to take sequels, if they sit down and streamline all of the Captain Marvel stuff and some of the miscellaneous cosmic stuff. I'm expecting KSD to work on giving her one (archenemy) in the comics, if the book survives

 

[spideymouse]

Very true. If Marvel can salvage a character who hasn't really managed to carve out a great niche in 45 years of existence, that's cause for celebration.

I don't know if that's dripping with sarcasm or not, but I actually think they've achieved this, in the A:EMH cartoon. It helped that Jennifer Hale voiced her, and that they didn't have the whole costume/exposed legs/domino mask issue to grapple with.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

To me at least the Marvel Cinematic Universe should only pay homage to the name and look of the characters. Stark should kinda look like Stark from the comics and when he suits up he should look like Iron Man from the comics.

But other than that the MCU owes nothing to the comics. Not even the characters personalities from the comics should be blindly copied on film if it doesn't serve the greater goal of making an awesome film and if the filmmakers can come up with something better than was done in the comics.

My point is if Carol Danvers has such a sucky, boring backstory why not create a Carol Danvers for the MCU that IS cool and DOES add something to the universe. If her origin sucked then come up with an origin that doesn't suck in the movie.

This is what I believe Marvel Studios had in mind when they started the MCU. It's not some machine where your insert comic pages in one end and a live action feature film comes out the other end. I rather look at it like this.

You have 616 Thor, which happens to be a comic book.

Then you have Ultimate Thor, which also happens to be a comic book but the origin is different from 616.

And then you have MCU Thor, which happens to be a movie. This origin CAN be different from 616 and Ultimate if it needs to, if it makes for a better film. If not, don't mess with it.

They're all Thor. It's not like MCU Thor absolutely HAS to be 616 Thor, but with real people, hell no. If 616 Ms. Marvel sucks make MCU Ms. Marvel awesome. They shouldn't box themselves in with these comic books IMO.

All you owe to the fans is that there IS a character named Carol Danvers, whose alter ego is Ms. Marvel and she's part of the Avengers. The rest can be up in the air for all I care.

I see a lot of people complain that she doesn't have a cool rogues gallery, so make one up in her movie, be free of your shackles !

 

[Chewy]

Especially when most of these movies owe more to their 2000s relaunches than the original 60s comics anyway

 

[KangConquers]

I don't know if that's dripping with sarcasm or not, but I actually think they've achieved this, in the A:EMH cartoon. It helped that Jennifer Hale voiced her, and that they didn't have the whole costume/exposed legs/domino mask issue to grapple with.

I was being absolutely sincere, bordering on earnest.

Her EMH portrayal was very good.

 

[KangConquers]

The biggest thing she needs is an archenemy. There's good material for an origin movie and there are places to take sequels, if they sit down and streamline all of the Captain Marvel stuff and some of the miscellaneous cosmic stuff. I'm expecting KSD to work on giving her one (archenemy) in the comics, if the book survives

She definitely needs one. Her 2005-2009 book basically was just used to serve whatever the main Marvel Studios arc was. First Civil War, then Secret Invasion, then Dark Reign. It was basically "The Marvel Universe, from the eyes of a second stringer."

Which is better than having Marcus rape her, but still...

 

[The Strategos]

Perhaps they could have the fist MCU in space which could lead nicely into a second avengers movie, that would certainly give her a world of her own. Just a (probably bad) thought !

 

[KangConquers]

Perhaps they could have the fist MCU in space which could lead nicely into a second avengers movie, that would certainly give her a world of her own. Just a (probably bad) thought !

Rocket Raccoon says the seat's taken, Forrest.

 

[Human Torch]

A Directly adapted Ms. Marvel trilogy would be

Movie 1: Follow a cosmic superhero around for several years. Finally gain his powers, watch him die of cancer. Fight anthropomorphic Dinosaur people.
Movie 2: Get raped by a time traveler, get de-powered and dropped like a sack of **** into the San Francisco bay. Write a novel.
Movie 3: Become an alcoholic, get court martialed and kicked out of the Avengers. Get conditionally released into their custody, like a child. Play a supporting role on the team.

Sadly that's very accurate.

Of course,I doubt that Marvel will seriously consider using any of that in films.(Nor should they.)

 

[spideymouse]

The biggest thing she needs is an archenemy. There's good material for an origin movie and there are places to take sequels, if they sit down and streamline all of the Captain Marvel stuff and some of the miscellaneous cosmic stuff. I'm expecting KSD to work on giving her one (archenemy) in the comics, if the book survives

What type of character would you want to be her archenemy? I could see her contrasted against a Lex Luthor type villain--someone whose ambitions, cunning, and intellect run directly against hers. Also, maybe a Kree antithesis of Ms. Marvel?

 

[metaphysician]

Ronan the Accuser maybe?

 

[Artistsean]

I think, but this would be my idea for a story really, but her arch enemy in the first movie should be Yon-Rogg and rogue Kree soldiers and their secret weapon would be a Kree Sentry robot. Sort of setting up the Kree as possible enemies. And that her enemies would be cosmic based. Enemies like the Controller, Skrulls, Kree, Blastaar, Korvac, the Brood, Super Skrulls, Supreme Intelligence, Ronan the Accuser would be great, etc.
Maybe Thanos can become her major enemy, her Lex Luthor. How about Moonstone? She could be like the Anti-Carol/Captain Marvel. Sort of like her Iron Monger, Red Skull, Loki, type.
Alien threats to the Earth maybe.

OK, so my thoughts are her enemies should be alien threats and human threats powered by aliens, a mix of Mar-Vell's rogues and Miss Marvel's rogues, and power levels equal or greater to hers to give her a challenge.
While Thor is sort of aliens come to Earth, and it is mentioned in Avengers that Fury was worried about that, Captain Marvel (Carol) could be Mankind's journey into space away from Earth. Not that she would have to leave Earth, but she could in a film, but just the idea that instead of Fury worried about aliens using humans and Earth her story would sort of be mankind using alien tech/powers. Plus, like Fury said, Thor and Loki have sort of opened the door and Earth has sort of become a target now for aliens.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Other than the broadest strokes, Ms. Marvel is wide open. They can safely ignore 90% of her comic history. Hell, they might be better off just glancing at her wiki page.

I agree that they need to figure out what makes this character interesting before proceeding.

My assumption is that Carol Danvers will be featured in one or more team-up movies before she gets a solo film. Works for me.

 

[Artistsean]

My idea, which I have stated before (previous thread I think), was to set the film up like the Thor movie. Starting it with her being Captain Marvel (so the audience knows she is the star) then flashback to her without powers and a pilot/SHIELD/SWORD agent. She meets Captain Mar-Vell and she helps him fight the rogue Kree soldiers led by Yon-Rogg. The stuff with her having no powers but still showing she is a great fighter would show her heroism doesn't just come from the powers. In trying to stop their ultimate weapon, the Kree Sentry robot, Mar-Vell sacrifices his life but in tern gives his powers (super advanced high tech Kree armor) to Carol. She then becomes Captain Marvel and stops the Kree robot for good.
I think the Kree should also be hinted at having a greater involvement in Earth too, it wasn't accident that they arrived on Earth of all places. And that would set up possibilities for sequels for Captain Marvel.
(also in my idea the powers are transfered to her when Mar-Vell gives her his Kree armor. When she finally puts it on it rewrites her DNA and gives her powers. Its sort of like a super advanced alien version of Iron Man's already advanced armor.)

This way it starts with her as Captain Marvel with powers, second half of film has no powers, last half of film has powers. Like in Thor, film started out with Thor having powers fighting Frost Giants, then he was sent to Earth and had no powers, then last half of movie he had powers and fought the Destroyer and Loki.

I also like the idea of introducing her as an Agent of SWORD (a devision of SHIELD that monitors for aliens) in another film like the Avengers 2 or 3 or Ant Man or Iron Man 3 or Captain America 2 or 3, Thor 2, etc. Because its only natural that SHIELD would start a devision that would monitor for aliens, Fury himself said that they started creating weapons to combat aliens and super beings because of Thor (a powerful alien). So why not show the next logical step, Fury and SHIELD created a branch that would monitor for aliens and be ready to fight them, first line of defense against an invasion. So she would be introduced in another film as Carol Danvers, Agent of SHIELD and SWORD and a US Pilot, and a Captain. She could get some minor screen time only to get more later on when she gets her own film.

Just a few ideas drawn out here.

 

[The Strategos]

Other than the broadest strokes, Ms. Marvel is wide open. They can safely ignore 90% of her comic history. Hell, they might be better off just glancing at her wiki page.

I agree that they need to figure out what makes this character interesting before proceeding.

My assumption is that Carol Danvers will be featured in one or more team-up movies before she gets a solo film. Works for me.

Meh, that's not the Marvel way and I don't think it should be either as a solo film allows the character to be properly set up so that the team ups can get on with the plot and action.
P.S. Great work on the costumes, Artistsean!