Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

[KangConquers]

I would agree with this,but GOTG kinda shifts that arguement slightly.No offence but there are a TON of other characters that deserve a film appearence before them.If GOTG gets a film before Strange,BP,Etc,then there is no real "order" to the MCU.

The Guardians are getting a movie because they tie in with Thanos, and because their Marvel's best "in" to the Cosmic Universe on film; they don't have Silver Surfer, and Nova is a bit too much like Green Lantern.

 

[cherokeesam]

The Guardians are getting a movie because they tie in with Thanos, and because their Marvel's best "in" to the Cosmic Universe on film; they don't have Silver Surfer, and Nova is a bit too much like Green Lantern.

Pretty much.

The order in which Marvel Studios picks their properties seems to be based on where they want to go storywise with each individual phase; not based on the perceived popularity of any given character, or on what they think the box office potential for that character might be.

 

[Markyboy00]

Thats the way it should be.. They need to care more about the story telling instead of throwing characters out there just because they're popular.. So far the story has been amazingly told.. My opinion Ms.Marvel can fit in pretty good with the current story, but not in her own movie, but in a big supporting role..

 

[DrCosmic]

I don't see how Ms. Marvel's origin can fit in a supporting role and still be compelling. She's not just a SHIELD agent. Why bother doing origin films for all the people with powers if they're not vitally important?

I understand your position on a great role model for young girls, but she won't be any less of a role model if they release her film after Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Namor.

Well... she would have influence on fewer girls as some would have outgrown the need/ability to look up to fictional characters, and she would be less important to the fabric of the MCU overall, removing some of the 'girls can do it too' effect. Perhaps adding diversity to the MCU is not a priority, but to say the timing of it is irrelevant is to ignore the lack of development she's received in comics until recently which puts her in the position she's in in the first place.

Also, she's kinda already in Captain Mar-Vell's mythology... she can't cannibalize his mythology anymore than Nightwing can cannibalize Batman's. If using stuff from GotG (not that their movie doesn't need to be prioritized, but proof that depth of catalog isn't their main goal) or F4 is disturbing, just stick with Mar-Vell's stuff, there's plenty enough there.

Edit: I re-read this and it seems like I'm trying to convince you, and that really shouldn't be my goal, as much as I think accusing her of cannibalizing her own legacy's mythos is unfair, I respect your position otherwise, which is not always true of those I disagree with.

 

[spideymouse]

I want to see her in a solo film because there is a lot of story that they couldn't smash into the Avengers. Just like they had to cut Cap walking around New York, they wouldn't be able to show the full story. There is enough there for a full story. What would her character arc be in the first film? If she is already a tough SHIELD/SWORD agent and then becomes Captain Marvel, what arc can her character have? Peter learned about power/responsibility, Iron Man learned that nothing mattered by helping others, Thor learned that its not all about him. Captain America learned something too, but he started out as a good guy. What would Carol learn?
Maybe it would depend on what the film was about and what happened in the film, but if she is going to meet Kree aliens and help Mar-Vell maybe it could be her realizing that aliens aren't automatically bad guys. Maybe her eyes are opened to seeing that life is more than what happens on Earth.
Or maybe its all about her proving she is as capable as any male SHIELD agent?
Or perhaps she isn't as self assured as she ends up being, maybe she starts out as an insecure doubter.
I don't see it being about that, we all know what Carol is like now. Not many know what she was like then, but I am curious what you guys think her character arc should be?

This could also determine who her rogues gallery enemies would be. Personally, and without considering her character arc, I want to see hjer fight Moonstone (sort of her evil clone type enemy), Kree rogue soldiers, maybe Skrulls, any thoughts about this?

I kind of like that.

I could see her as a headstrong, sometimes volatile SHIELD/SWORD agent mostly looking out for herself, because of her upbringing and her somewhat misguided belief that she has to fight The Man tooth and nail for every step in her career. Her initial flaw would be that sexism is not the main factor that is keeping her from reaching her true potential, but it is mostly her own self-protective, untrusting nature. They would have to show some hidden vulnerability that she's still a likeable and relatable protagonist that we can root for. What she would learn through the movie and her interactions with Mar-Vell and other characters would be that not everyone is out to get her--and that trusting others and investing in relationships actually makes her stronger, and makes her a better leader/agent/heroine. That could be the legacy that Captain Marvel's would leave to her. The end of the movie would show her as a more empathizing and therefore more effective human being.

Not to divide up into tiers and such, but to me, prioritizing Ms. Marvel over Doctor Strange would be like prioritizing Doctor Strange over Captain America, or Captain America over Spider-Man. There has to be a pecking order based on depth of catalog, etc, and Ms. Marvel falls pretty far down the list, probably outside of Marvel's top 20 solo heroes.

I'm not saying she doesn't deserve a film, it just shouldn't be nearly top priority.

The Guardians are getting a movie because they tie in with Thanos, and because their Marvel's best "in" to the Cosmic Universe on film; they don't have Silver Surfer, and Nova is a bit too much like Green Lantern.

To make your later argument is contrary to your former argument, and vice versa. Please pick one and stick with it.

If we were to go with the former, I'd say that the difference between Dr. Strange and Ms. Marvel is much smaller and less crucial than the other comparisons you made.

If we were to go with the latter, I'd say that Ms. Marvel would have been quite a good "in" for Marvel's Cosmic Universe on film as well, especially wrt the Kree (and therefore the Skrulls), and potentially SWORD. Not to mention that she's probably Marvel's best "in" to the superheroine movie genre. Her movie could pave the way for Spider-Woman, She-Hulk, and other female superhumans to have legitimate shots at having good movies that can be taken seriously.

 

[KangConquers]

I kind of like that.


To make your later argument is contrary to your former argument, and vice versa. Please pick one and stick with it.

If we were to go with the former, I'd say that the difference between Dr. Strange and Ms. Marvel is much smaller and less crucial than the other comparisons you made.

If we were to go with the latter, I'd say that Ms. Marvel would have been quite a good "in" for Marvel's Cosmic Universe on film as well, especially wrt the Kree (and therefore the Skrulls), and potentially SWORD. Not to mention that she's probably Marvel's best "in" to the superheroine movie genre. Her movie could pave the way for Spider-Woman, She-Hulk, and other female superhumans to have legitimate shots at having good movies that can be taken seriously.

I'll argue that a TEAM film and a solo film are apples and oranges right now. The Avengers just made 1.5 B based on a great team dynamic. WB is scrambling to capitalize. It would only make sense for Marvel to peddle another group of heroes.

The discrepancy between Ms. Marvel and Doctor Strange is rather large. Strange is very unique in the Marvel Universe, with his own set of rogues, and (by Marvel wikia count) 380 solo comic issues. That's a lot of material to fall back on. Ms. Marvel on the other hand, has primarily been a background Avenger. Even her recent solo run in the 00s, was used simply to pimp events. She fought Skrulls because of secret of invasion, she fought the Dark Avengers because of Dark Reign...there wasn't anything really singular there.

In terms of Ms. Marvel being an "in" to the cosmic element of Marvel, that ship has sailed. Guardians of the Galaxy is on Marvel's slate already. You have to look at what is, and not what could of been. What does Ms. Marvel offer now that makes her a top priority? Being a woman isn't enough.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'll argue that a TEAM film and a solo film are apples and oranges right now. The Avengers just made 1.5 B based on a great team dynamic. WB is scrambling to capitalize. It would only make sense for Marvel to peddle another group of heroes.

The discrepancy between Ms. Marvel and Doctor Strange is rather large. Strange is very unique in the Marvel Universe, with his own set of rogues, and (by Marvel wikia count) 380 solo comic issues. That's a lot of material to fall back on. Ms. Marvel on the other hand, has primarily been a background Avenger. Even her recent solo run in the 00s, was used simply to pimp events. She fought Skrulls because of secret of invasion, she fought the Dark Avengers because of Dark Reign...there wasn't anything really singular there.

In terms of Ms. Marvel being an "in" to the cosmic element of Marvel, that ship has sailed. Guardians of the Galaxy is on Marvel's slate already. You have to look at what is, and not what could of been. What does Ms. Marvel offer now that makes her a top priority? Being a woman isn't enough.

That's why I would like to see the Defenders. Not only would it have the draw of the Hulk (hot off his role on the Avengers) but also would utilise Dr Strange (who Marvel are planning anyway) and Namor. They can have the other three Defenders (Nighthawk, Valkyrie and Hellcat) too and it will still feel complete, even without the Silver Surfer.

But that's another topic of discussion to Ms Marvel.

 

[OB12]

I'd rather we get two seasons of Carol Danvers as a SHIELD agent in the TV and then graduate her to an Avengers sequel.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

i actually really love the idea of Danvers starting out as a SHIELD agent in TA2 and emerging as a superhero and member of the team by the end of the film.

the idea that marvel is going to introduce characters on tv and then transfer them to the films is unlikely. theres certainly no evidence that theyre planning this, and what they have said suggests theyre not going to do this. marvel now has 5 different film franchises in which to introduce new characters so they have absolutely no reason to use the SHIELD show to promote them.

 

[spideymouse]

I'll argue that a TEAM film and a solo film are apples and oranges right now. The Avengers just made 1.5 B based on a great team dynamic. WB is scrambling to capitalize. It would only make sense for Marvel to peddle another group of heroes.

I think it's dangerous to make the comparison between GOTG to The Avengers. I really hope that Marvel didn't make the decision to make GOTG solely on the fact that they're a team of heroes. That kind of singular "___ made money, so let's copy ___" formulaic thinking has resulted in plenty of terrible creative choices made in Hollywood that have killed/come close to killing whole genres. I would hope they chose to make GOTG based on their faith in the characters/stories moreso than "oh, they're a team, so they will make money" logic. Also, I don't agree that team films and solo films are apples and oranges in the mind of the GA. If you are citing comic book numbers/rogues with Ms. Marvel, I don't think ignoring the same with GOTG makes sense.

The discrepancy between Ms. Marvel and Doctor Strange is rather large. Strange is very unique in the Marvel Universe, with his own set of rogues, and (by Marvel wikia count) 380 solo comic issues. That's a lot of material to fall back on. Ms. Marvel on the other hand, has primarily been a background Avenger. Even her recent solo run in the 00s, was used simply to pimp events. She fought Skrulls because of secret of invasion, she fought the Dark Avengers because of Dark Reign...there wasn't anything really singular there.

I don't know the numbers exactly, but couldn't you make a similar case about the discrepancy between GOTG and Avengers, comic books-wise/rogues-wise?You were basically saying that they're making GOTG pretty much to "pimp" Thanos. If so, why can't they use Ms. Marvel to "pimp" the Kree?

In terms of Ms. Marvel being an "in" to the cosmic element of Marvel, that ship has sailed. Guardians of the Galaxy is on Marvel's slate already. You have to look at what is, and not what could of been. What does Ms. Marvel offer now that makes her a top priority? Being a woman isn't enough.

I'm not arguing that she should be top priority--I don't know if anyone here is--but I do think she's higher than 21st in solo heroes. Yes, the ship has sailed on pushing further into the MCU cosmos, but it's not like GOTG and Thor are the only franchises that should have the cosmic side of the MCU cornered. I still think Ms. Marvel would be a great "in" to another important part of the MCU cosmos: the Kree world. I think connecting the Kree (and Skrulls) to Earth in a very compelling, human story could be high priority at some point in the near future.

And while I agree that her being a woman isn't enough, I do think it could factor into the decision making. They just gained millions of fans through The Avengers. They may not want to alienate a bunch of them by perpetuating the same male-heavy dynamic that has alienated those same people from their comic books.

 

[KangConquers]

I think it's dangerous to make the comparison between GOTG to The Avengers. I really hope that Marvel didn't make the decision to make GOTG solely on the fact that they're a team of heroes. That kind of singular "___ made money, so let's copy ___" formulaic thinking has resulted in plenty of terrible creative choices made in Hollywood that have killed/come close to killing whole genres. I would hope they chose to make GOTG based on their faith in the characters/stories moreso than "oh, they're a team, so they will make money" logic. Also, I don't agree that team films and solo films are apples and oranges in the mind of the GA. If you are citing comic book numbers/rogues with Ms. Marvel, I don't think ignoring the same with GOTG makes sense.

I don't know the numbers exactly, but couldn't you make a similar case about the discrepancy between GOTG and Avengers, comic books-wise/rogues-wise?You were basically saying that they're making GOTG pretty much to "pimp" Thanos. If so, why can't they use Ms. Marvel to "pimp" the Kree?

I'm not arguing that she should be top priority--I don't know if anyone here is--but I do think she's higher than 21st in solo heroes. Yes, the ship has sailed on pushing further into the MCU cosmos, but it's not like GOTG and Thor are the only franchises that should have the cosmic side of the MCU cornered. I still think Ms. Marvel would be a great "in" to another important part of the MCU cosmos: the Kree world. I think connecting the Kree (and Skrulls) to Earth in a very compelling, human story could be high priority at some point in the near future.

And while I agree that her being a woman isn't enough, I do think it could factor into the decision making. They just gained millions of fans through The Avengers. They may not want to alienate a bunch of them by perpetuating the same male-heavy dynamic that has alienated those same people from their comic books.

You're getting what I think should matter and what actually matters confused. Hell, Ms. Marvel has a better solo career than all 3 Ant-Men combined....but Ant-Man is getting a film.

21st was arbitrary...but I did some digging to see what characters had carried the most comic books/ solo stories in marvel, whether it be in on-going, one shot, etc.

This is what I got for the top 25, based SOLEY on issue count.

Spoiler

Spider-Man- 1915
Wolverine- 814
Captain America- 788
Thor- 733
Hulk- 726
Iron Man- 699
Daredevil- 591
Punisher- 587
Ghost Rider- 392
Doctor Strange- 360
Nick Fury- 276
Deadpool- 255
Namor- 235
Cable- 213
Silver Surfer- 213
Black Panther- 166
Moon Knight- 165
Thing- 164
Captain Marvel- 142
She-Hulk- 141
Nova- 94
Adam Warlock- 85
Ms. Marvel- 83
Luke Cage- 82
Ka-Zar- 81

Now, obviously, there's more to worth than total comics. If Ms. Marvel had convincing seminal stories, or great characterization, it would 100% overrule that. But she doesn't have that either...yet anyway.

 

[metaphysician]

That's why I would like to see the Defenders. Not only would it have the draw of the Hulk (hot off his role on the Avengers) but also would utilise Dr Strange (who Marvel are planning anyway) and Namor. They can have the other three Defenders (Nighthawk, Valkyrie and Hellcat) too and it will still feel complete, even without the Silver Surfer.

But that's another topic of discussion to Ms Marvel.

The problem is, the Hulk is *already* part of a team. Making a Defenders movie and hoping to sell it with the Hulk runs into the "So its the Avengers except with no reason to exist" problem. Yes, the Hulk is far more often a Defender than an Avenger in the comics, but that is irrelevant to the movies. Avengers made its mark, and part of that mark is "Hulk is an Avenger."

 

[Artistsean]

What if they used She-Hulk instead of Banner/Hulk? Would that still work? She-Hulk shows up and its explained her relationship to Banner?

Ms. Marvel isn't Wonder Woman. She doesn't have a history of 70 years worth of stories, and she's not one of Marvel's top heroes. There are several other characters with a lot more to offer, in terms of distinctive story, history, power set, personality, and designs.

I understand your position on a great role model for young girls, but she won't be any less of a role model if they release her film after Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Namor.

Not saying Marvel will actually do this, but Marvel could introduce Carol Danvers in the SHIELD tv show. Then bring her into her own movie. And like they did with Thor, Captain America, and Iron Man, and what they are doing now with the Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor 2, Ant Man, and the upcoming Avengers 2 and Captain America 2, and Iron Man 3, they could have the Captain Marvel movie at the same time as the Black Panther movie and introduce Namor as the main big bad guy in another film like Avengers 2 (so people first get used to him as a villain and not just another hero).
Its not much of a stretch to think they could use her in the movies right now. SHIELD is freaking out about the alien invasions, her origin is alien and the Kree play a major part in Marvel comics. And like others have stated, Marvel seems to be using characters that fit the stories they want to tell instead of the big names that people will pay to see. Carol's story would fit in with what is happening in the Marvel cinematic universe. Just imagine, SHIELD has already stated they began creating weapons to use against Thor because his appearance on Earth scared them. Now that Loki brought an alien invasion to Earth SHIELD starts the SWORD devision, to combat and prepare for aliens coming to Earth. Carol is part of that, as is Agent Brand. Because of this Carol meets Mar-Vell. Maybe the Kree showing up on Earth could have something to do with Thanos and the Guardians of the Galaxy, and their manipulation of Earth's DNA. But I don't think her story could be told as part of an Avengers story, just like Ultron would only work as part of an Avengers movie (in my opinion) Carol becoming Captain Marvel would have to be told in a solo film, but she should end up on the Avengers.
Carol may not be Wonder Woman, yet, and maybe not have the history, but if they made a movie starring her she would instantly grow in popularity and become a big name like Spider-Man, Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Captain America. Marvel redesigned her to give her the style with a flashy new costume and name. It would be a good move to bring a female hero into the movies that has the same power level as Thor or Iron Man and right now Carol seems like she could do the job. Once Captain Marvel (Carol) has her own successful movie she will be that much closer to being Marvel's Wonder Woman.
Carol, recently, has appeared in Avenging Spider-Man (2 issues), her own title Captain Marvel, Avengers (Secret and Mighty and others I think), and Spider-Man. She has sort of popped up here and there all over recently I think. But that doesn't mean much, by the time they decide to make the movie she might have a huge successful comic that has been going strong for over 80 issues to 100 issues, or have none at all. Blade had no title when they made it and Green Lantern had a huge successful DC comic and was the center of the DC universe at the time and the movie didn't do so well at all.

 

[KangConquers]

If I was doing a Ms. Marvel movie, I think I'd just call it Captain Marvel, and have it be about Danvers mostly as a civilian, and Captain Marvel. In the 2nd or 3rd act, Danvers absorbs Mar-Vell's powers, and in the final battle between them and whatever villain (Ronan, Kree Sentry 459, Yon Rogg) Mar-Vell is slain, Danvers becomes the new Captain Marvel and winds up in the avengers.

I just can't see any of the characters from here on out (save Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Namor) getting trilogies. At best, a Ms./ Captain Marvel movie will wind up happening, but I don't see them building off of it, save giving her a place in Avengers.

 

[spideymouse]

If I was doing a Ms. Marvel movie, I think I'd just call it Captain Marvel, and have it be about Danvers mostly as a civilian, and Captain Marvel. In the 2nd or 3rd act, Danvers absorbs Mar-Vell's powers, and in the final battle between them and whatever villain (Ronan, Kree Sentry 459, Yon Rogg) Mar-Vell is slain, Danvers becomes the new Captain Marvel and winds up in the avengers.

That's basically how I imagine it, too. I'd give her the powers in the 2nd act so that you're not waiting 80 minutes before seeing her hero it up.

I just can't see any of the characters from here on out (save Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Namor) getting trilogies. At best, a Ms./ Captain Marvel movie will wind up happening, but I don't see them building off of it, save giving her a place in Avengers.

Yeah, that's how I feel about Ant-Man, too (unless they were to save the Scott Lang story for a sequel). But I could see Daredevil supporting a franchise, and if a Heroes for Hire movie were to become wildly popular--I think the GA would love the buddy cop dynamic--I could see that taking off too. I could see GOTG being a possible source of spin-offs for Nova and maybe Adam Warlock (or they would just show up in GOTG sequels), and of course, the Rocket Raccoon franchise, which would be the superhero movie franchise to end all superhero movies, the absolute height of human civilization. =)

 

[KangConquers]

That's basically how I imagine it, too. I'd give her the powers in the 2nd act so that you're not waiting 80 minutes before seeing her hero it up.

Yeah, that's how I feel about Ant-Man, too (unless they were to save the Scott Lang story for a sequel). But I could see Daredevil supporting a franchise, and if a Heroes for Hire movie were to become wildly popular--I think the GA would love the buddy cop dynamic--I could see that taking off too. I could see GOTG being a possible source of spin-offs for Nova and maybe Adam Warlock (or they would just show up in GOTG sequels), and of course, the Rocket Raccoon franchise, which would be the superhero movie franchise to end all superhero movies, the absolute height of human civilization. =)

There are very few characters that Marvel has the rights to that I can see a stream of movies for. Captain America, Thor, Hulk and Iron Man obviously have limitless resources. The next level down, Punisher, Daredevil (both back in house), Doctor Strange, Namor, Black Panther...can maybe squeeze out a trilogy. Heroes for Hire can do a semi-trilogy, with 1 solo film for each, and then a team movie.

The most difficult part about a Ms. Marvel movie to me is, if done properly, it would function like your proposed Ant-Man sequel. A movie with a secondary character taking the mantle from the original, which would be best served if we understood Captain Mar-Vell a bit.

The problem with making a Mar-Vell film is, if it's not successful, you never get a Ms. Marvel film, and if it is successful, you're going to have people who are more than a little unhappy when he croaks, and a supporting character takes the mantle from him.

 

[Artistsean]

The way I see it is to make the film a sort of buddy cop type movie. We are first introduced to Carol (the SHIELD/SWORD agent/pilot) so that we know who the star is. She quickly teams up with Mar-Vell (an alien soldier) and we see him through her eyes and everything through her eyes so we always know who the star is. But most of the film is a buddy cop type movie where the two are working together to fight the bad guy (Ronnin or Yon-Rogg or rogue Kree soldiers) and through her eyes we see how good a soldier/man Mar-Vell is. We also show that Carol is a capable agent and able to stand on her own without high tech alien weapons or powers. During the second part of the movie Mar-Vell dies (think of the scene where Thor fights the Destroyer, I'd imagine it happens around that part of the movie) and Carol gets his powers. We also have Carol react very strongly to his death so its not just Mar-Vell dies and she picks up his gun and steps over his dead body without a care. I could see the film being done with great effect without needing two movies or too much time to introduced Mar-Vell. Then its like Thor, SPOILER [BLACKOUT]Thor fights the Destroyer and gets his powers back and then goes to fight Loki in Asgard. That was enough time to show the two epic battles and introduce Thor. [/BLACKOUT]So I think that could work for Carol too. Another good way to look at it might be Men in Black 1, but imagine if the scene near the end (last half of the film) was where Agent K left the show and the last half of the film was all about Agent J alone. They were both introduced to the audience and the audience at that point cared enough about them both that it would work. Another example that keeps coming to mind, but might be less successful is Terminator 1. Where the soldier who goes back in time to save Sara Conner isn't the star but we get to know him, especially once he teams up with Sara Conner and we see him through her eyes. Then once he dies and its all about Sara we care about both of them, I think maybe. Its been a while since I saw it.

If I was doing a Ms. Marvel movie, I think I'd just call it Captain Marvel, and have it be about Danvers mostly as a civilian, and Captain Marvel. In the 2nd or 3rd act, Danvers absorbs Mar-Vell's powers, and in the final battle between them and whatever villain (Ronan, Kree Sentry 459, Yon Rogg) Mar-Vell is slain, Danvers becomes the new Captain Marvel and winds up in the avengers.

Thats basically how I imagined it. But I also went with the Thor flow of the story. He has powers in the beginning, he doesn't have powers, then he does. So that it would start with her having powers as Captain Marvel to show who the star is and what will eventually happen and to let the audience know it will happen and wont be put off till another movie and then flash back to her not having powers to show she was a hero before the powers and while she is powerless Mar-Vell is alive with powers, then like you said he dies trying to stop the bad guy and she gets his powers and becomes Captain Marvel. I agree she wont be called Ms. Marvel or anything else, just Captain Marvel. I like that more anyway. But I am sure whatever plot they use in the movie when they make it, it will be good writing.

I just can't see any of the characters from here on out (save Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Namor) getting trilogies. At best, a Ms./ Captain Marvel movie will wind up happening, but I don't see them building off of it, save giving her a place in Avengers.

That is sort of the double edged sword of the Avengers movie. You want to introduce these characters in their own movies but now it seems like just bring more Avengers movies. Its hard to get excited about Iron Man 3, or Ant Man, or imagine an Ant Man 2, or a Black Panther 2. But they will make them and they will be exciting. Captain America is going to include the Winter Soldier or something, they already have that in the contracts and the demand is high enough that they will make them, so its almost like icing on the cake. They will make them anyway.
What Marvel needs to keep doing is what they did to introduce the Avengers, they need to do something like bring the SHIELD TV show into the movie universe, maybe introduce Carol there so that when she gets her own film it all ties together, and then Carol joins the Avengers. And maybe bring the Avengers cartoon into it too.Plus they need to bring on Wave 2 of the Marvel movie universe movies, Gardians of the Galaxy is a good start. Black Panther and Ant Man and others should be on their way. They need to expand the movie universe without going overboard too.

 

[spideymouse]

There are very few characters that Marvel has the rights to that I can see a stream of movies for. Captain America, Thor, Hulk and Iron Man obviously have limitless resources. The next level down, Punisher, Daredevil (both back in house), Doctor Strange, Namor, Black Panther...can maybe squeeze out a trilogy.

The most difficult part about a Ms. Marvel movie to me is, if done properly, it would function far more like how you discussed an Ant-Man sequel would. Just like an Ant-Man franchise should have Pym in AM1, and Lang in AM2, I could see the argument that to really setup Carol gaining her powers, and to have it have some meaning, you need to make a straight up Mar-Vell film first.

The problem with making a Mar-Vell film is, if it's not successful, you never get a Ms. Marvel film, and if it is successful, you're going to have people who are more than a little unhappy when he croaks, and a supporting character takes the mantle from him.

Quite the quandary. To make it work, you'd have to really sell Mar-Vell and Carol's relationship in the first film and have Carol be a true co-star (and not just a supporting character), and perhaps even the narrator/protagonist (like a Watson to Mar-Vell's Holmes). If you can get the audience to care enough about both characters, you can get them to root for Carol that much more when she takes on Mar-Vell's legacy.

One question is, would people be more or less interested in a Mar-Vell movie than a Carol Danvers movie?

 

[Chewy]

The thing about Mar-Vell is that he's most famous for dying.

 

[Artistsean]

Quite the quandary. To make it work, you'd have to really sell Mar-Vell and Carol's relationship in the first film and have Carol be a true co-star (and not just a supporting character), and perhaps even the narrator/protagonist (like a Watson to Mar-Vell's Holmes). If you can get the audience to care enough about both characters, you can get them to root for Carol that much more when she takes on Mar-Vell's legacy.

I think you can make it about Carol without loosing Mar-Vell too. Start it with Carol, introduce her before she meets Mar-Vell. Make the movie sort of from her eyes and keep her as narrator too, thats a good idea. Then introduce Mar-Vell officially through her, her meeting him and through her eyes. Have the film become a buddy cop situation where Carol and Mar-Vell must team up to save the city/Earth from a bad guy. During this partnership its still through her eyes and she is still the narrator. (Similar to the Bucket List where the movie was all about Morgan Freeman's character but Nicholson's character became a big part too.) Then Mar-Vell dies and we see his death through her eyes and she reacts strongly to it. And by her eyes I don't mean like a first person shooter game, I mean like how we see the story through Johnny Depp's character's eyes in "Whats Eating Gilbert Grape." So that we understand how much he meant to the story.
During the partnership he can even be shown to be this noble Captain America type good guy and maybe they effect each other and both grow because of knowing one another. And perhaps they even fall in love with one another.
Then once Mar-Vell is dead and Carol is Captain Marvel we care about them both, and her calling herself Captain Marvel in the end would help remind the audience of him too.

 

[KangConquers]

The thing about Mar-Vell is that he's most famous for dying.

I don't think that's true at all. Much of what we now see in Cosmic Marvel, in the issues of Silver Surfer, Guardians of the Galaxy, Nova, and other books from the past 20 years came to fruition in the pages of Captain Marvel. His series was nearly as important as Lee's F4 to the establishment of the cosmos in 616. He's a seminal character in Marvel history, and definitely has value beyond just dying of cancer.

If you really want to play that game though, what is Ms. Marvel famous for other than having her powers stolen by a much more popular character (Rogue)?

 

[Chewy]

I don't think that's true at all. Much of what we now see in Cosmic Marvel, in the issues of Silver Surfer, Guardians of the Galaxy, Nova, and other books from the past 20 years came to fruition in the pages of Captain Marvel. His series was nearly as important as Lee's F4 to the establishment of the cosmos in 616. He's a seminal character in Marvel history, and definitely has value beyond just dying of cancer.

Most of that stuff was popularized in other, later books, though.

If you really want to play that game though, what is Ms. Marvel famous for other than having her powers stolen by a much more popular character (Rogue)?

Being an Avenger

 

[KangConquers]

Being an Avenger

Which is great. And I'm a huge Avengers fan, and have been for a long time, and I've never considered Ms. Marvel a priority avenger. They've tried to sell her as one in the last 5-10 years, but can you honestly say she's made the same impact on the team as the Pyms? The Maximoff Twins? Vision? Black Panther? Prior to Bendis-vengers, she'd even rank below Hercules and Wonder Man.

I just don't think she's offered us anything yet other than standing in the background and hitting things. She has perhaps more potential than any other character on Marvel's roster, but 35 years into her heroine career, she's still yet to meet it.

 

[Chewy]

More like 15 years at this point. And yes, in terms of cultural awareness, she's made much more of an impact than Hercules or Wonder Man or Quicksilver or the Pyms. So have Luke Cage and Wolverine, though.

My point is, the biggest, most memorable thing about Mar-Vell was his death. Which isn't a knock on the character, it was a big deal to kill off a series star at the time, and the fact that it actually stuck is rare. But the fact that it stuck also means that's what people remember about the character.

Ms Marvel is known for being a longtime Avenger at this point. She's been one of the big faces of the team for a while now and has been in the recent string of media adaptations.

 

[Chewy]

I just don't think she's offered us anything yet other than standing in the background and hitting things. She has perhaps more potential than any other character on Marvel's roster, but 35 years into her heroine career, she's still yet to meet it.

And sometimes it takes a movie for the dumb comics division to begin to realize that potential.

If you'll recall, the comics division was right in the middle of taking a steaming dump on Iron Man's face when the movie division got to work on his flick