Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

[Dark Raven]

Which is great. And I'm a huge Avengers fan, and have been for a long time, and I've never considered Ms. Marvel a priority avenger. They've tried to sell her as one in the last 5-10 years, but can you honestly say she's made the same impact on the team as the Pyms? The Maximoff Twins? Vision? Black Panther? Prior to Bendis-vengers, she'd even rank below Hercules and Wonder Man.

I just don't think she's offered us anything yet other than standing in the background and hitting things. She has perhaps more potential than any other character on Marvel's roster, but 35 years into her heroine career, she's still yet to meet it.

I don't think there will be a movie about Scarlet Witch's boobs even though I'm sure those have made quite a bit of impact.

 

[KangConquers]

More like 15 years at this point. And yes, in terms of cultural awareness, she's made much more of an impact than Hercules or Wonder Man or Quicksilver or the Pyms. So have Luke Cage and Wolverine, though.

My point is, the biggest, most memorable thing about Mar-Vell was his death. Which isn't a knock on the character, it was a big deal to kill off a series star at the time, and the fact that it actually stuck is rare. But the fact that it stuck also means that's what people remember about the character.

Ms Marvel is known for being a longtime Avenger at this point. She's been one of the big faces of the team for a while now and has been in the recent string of media adaptations.

I guess my point is that Ms. Marvel solo comics have never done a whole lot, until this new run, and that this is a solo film discussion. Being a well known member of a team doesn't guarantee you a solo film. If it did, Cyclops and Storm would have them.

Many many of these ideas people are floating, are Captain Mar-Vell concepts and history, with him downplayed to the point of being an Abin Sur type character. That rubs me the wrong way.

 

[KangConquers]

I don't think there will be a movie about Scarlet Witch's boobs even though I'm sure those have made quite a bit of impact.

Pietro has always been kind of a boob...

 

[Chewy]

I guess my point is that Ms. Marvel solo comics have never done a whole lot, until this new run, and that this is a solo film discussion. Being a well known member of a team doesn't guarantee you a solo film. If it did, Cyclops and Storm would have them.

Many many of these ideas people are floating, are Captain Mar-Vell concepts and history, with him downplayed to the point of being an Abin Sur type character. That rubs me the wrong way.

But that sort of runs with the theme of being a legacy character, trying to do right by your predecessor. It's like getting upset when Wally West fights one of Barry Allen's enemies.

If you condense both characters into one franchise it makes sense that the themes of one apply to the other.

Personally i think they need a whole film of Mar-Vell, with his death right at the end, so I'm not advocating any Abin Suring...

 

[Dark Raven]

Pietro has always been kind of a boob...

Wanda did have twins of her own later, but those were just implants.....

Spoiler

memory implants

 

[KangConquers]

But that sort of runs with the theme of being a legacy character, trying to do right by your predecessor. It's like getting upset when Wally West fights one of Barry Allen's enemies.

If you condense both characters into one franchise it makes sense that the themes of one apply to the other.

Personally i think they need a whole film of Mar-Vell, with his death right at the end, so I'm not advocating any Abin Suring...

That all works for me.

 

[Artistsean]

But that sort of runs with the theme of being a legacy character, trying to do right by your predecessor. It's like getting upset when Wally West fights one of Barry Allen's enemies.

If you condense both characters into one franchise it makes sense that the themes of one apply to the other.

Personally i think they need a whole film of Mar-Vell, with his death right at the end, so I'm not advocating any Abin Suring...

I think a whole film would be too much waiting to get to Carol being Captain Marvel. Personally. I think they could accomplish the same thing with a buddy cop styled film, a buddy superhero film hasn't been done yet either. Personally that is what I would do.
But I could see that working too, I just think it feels like making a movie all about Abin Surr with Hal becoming GL at the end, too much waiting.

It all depends on how the film is made, Avengers and X-men are two different takes on team movies. Avengers was all about the team and each member while X-Men was all about Wolverine and the team through Wolverine's eyes pretty much. a movie about Carol could be done and show Mar-Vell through her eyes and still be about her.

 

[spideymouse]

And sometimes it takes a movie for the dumb comics division to begin to realize that potential.

If you'll recall, the comics division was right in the middle of taking a steaming dump on Iron Man's face when the movie division got to work on his flick

Good point. Blade is another obscure, C-list character whose movie adaptation fully realized a potential no one really expected.

I guess my point is that Ms. Marvel solo comics have never done a whole lot, until this new run, and that this is a solo film discussion. Being a well known member of a team doesn't guarantee you a solo film. If it did, Cyclops and Storm would have them.

Many many of these ideas people are floating, are Captain Mar-Vell concepts and history, with him downplayed to the point of being an Abin Sur type character. That rubs me the wrong way.

I guess since this thread is about Carol, Mar-Vell has been treated as the means to an end. Whether that's fair or unfair, that very well could be the way Marvel would see him too.

 

[spideymouse]

I think a whole film would be too much waiting to get to Carol being Captain Marvel. Personally. I think they could accomplish the same thing with a buddy cop styled film, a buddy superhero film hasn't been done yet either. Personally that is what I would do.
But I could see that working too, I just think it feels like making a movie all about Abin Surr with Hal becoming GL at the end, too much waiting.

It all depends on how the film is made, Avengers and X-men are two different takes on team movies. Avengers was all about the team and each member while X-Men was all about Wolverine and the team through Wolverine's eyes pretty much. a movie about Carol could be done and show Mar-Vell through her eyes and still be about her.

Yeah, that's similar to what I brought up with the Sherlock Holmes/Dr. Watson dynamic.

And to be true, I think people here who want Carol to get her powers in one movie have treated Mar-Vell more like Obi-Wan than Abin-Sur, if that makes you feel any better, KC.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, that's similar to what I brought up with the Sherlock Holmes/Dr. Watson dynamic.

And to be true, I think people here who want Carol to get her powers in one movie have treated Mar-Vell more like Obi-Wan than Abin-Sur, if that makes you feel any better, KC.

Yeah, I don't really think of Mar-Vell like Abin-Sur. It's more like the analogy of Stark Iron Man and Rhodes Iron Man where the Iron Man identity was suddenly thrust upon Rhodey because Tony couldn't carry on anymore, but then Rhodey became a hero in his own right (although not outshining Tony ultimately, unlike Carol and Mar-Vell).

 

[marcvader]

I think a whole film would be too much waiting to get to Carol being Captain Marvel. Personally. I think they could accomplish the same thing with a buddy cop styled film, a buddy superhero film hasn't been done yet either. Personally that is what I would do.
But I could see that working too, I just think it feels like making a movie all about Abin Surr with Hal becoming GL at the end, too much waiting.

It all depends on how the film is made, Avengers and X-men are two different takes on team movies. Avengers was all about the team and each member while X-Men was all about Wolverine and the team through Wolverine's eyes pretty much. a movie about Carol could be done and show Mar-Vell through her eyes and still be about her.

The thing is that Mar-Vell was an actual long running character with many more appearances and many more comics published than the character many here want to get a movie for. Abin Sur is no Mar-Vell. Mar-Vell next to Adam Warlock was Thanos' biggest nemesis as well. I understand the fact that him being dead and staying dead, which I think is really cool because it makes his character that more significant, gives some of you the impression he's some kind of after thought and like Abin Sur but he really isn't. He's pretty bad ass in his own right and deserves a little more than showing up in an act or two in a movie of a character that really pales in comparison when you speak of history in, especially the cosmic side of the Marvel U.

 

[DrCosmic]

The thing is that Mar-Vell was an actual long running character with many more appearances and many more comics published than the character many here want to get a movie for. Abin Sur is no Mar-Vell. Mar-Vell next to Adam Warlock was Thanos' biggest nemesis as well. I understand the fact that him being dead and staying dead, which I think is really cool because it makes his character that more significant, gives some of you the impression he's some kind of after thought and like Abin Sur but he really isn't. He's pretty bad ass in his own right and deserves a little more than showing up in an act or two in a movie of a character that really pales in comparison when you speak of history in, especially the cosmic side of the Marvel U.

We shouldn't discount Mar-vell's importance, but Carol is simply a longer running character. 72 issues (across three solos) and counting to Mar-Vell's 62. 1700+ appearances to Mar-Vell's 510.

There are plenty of awesome two-act characters that aren't considered afterthoughts on any level. Mar-Vell, by virtue of being a character known for dying, and being best known as the progenitor for Carol Danvers, is ideal for that role, imho. I don't think Mar-Vell is needed in his original 616 role of exploring the cosmic universe and Thanos, I think the GotG is covering that.

Yeah, that's similar to what I brought up with the Sherlock Holmes/Dr. Watson dynamic.

And to be true, I think people here who want Carol to get her powers in one movie have treated Mar-Vell more like Obi-Wan than Abin-Sur, if that makes you feel any better, KC.

I like the Obi-Wan comparison. This is what I'm thinking now, thank you for bringing it up. In my head, Mar-Vell spends the first two acts of the movie being obscenely epic, reminiscent of the 70s Superman films, y'know. He should show us, in no uncertain terms why having him around any longer would make the rest of the Avengers irrelevant. So when he dies, the impetus to try and live up to him is very strong and not contrived. He understood the powers, and his place in the universe (related perhaps?).

 

[Artistsean]

Nice idea about that. And Obi-Wan is the best way to think about it. Obi-Wan was a huge character and died in the first film.
Also there could be movies that call back to Mar-Vell later. Especially if Teddy Mar-Vell and Annell's son is brought into the movies (which I think he should). You can bring him into some Marvel universe movie and do flashbacks and call backs to Mar-Vell and the Kree and Skrulls. Maybe even a flashback movie like X-Men first class even. An actual prequel instead of a flashbacks or something. Similar to how Star Wars went back and filled in the missing stories. Maybe bring Carol in to guest star in the movie too. Could happen in a Captain Marvel 3 movie or in a different Marvel movie down the road.

Here is what I would love to see, in Ant Man Scott Lang works in Pym's lab. He has a daughter, who becomes Stature.
In Captain Marvel, Mar-Vell reveals a relationship he had with Annell the Skrull princess and that he had a son maybe. That son grows up to become Teddy/Hulkling.
Characters would slowly be introduced so that eventually a Young Avengers movie could happen. Sort of like an Avengers movie with teenagers.

 

[Dark Raven]

We shouldn't discount Mar-vell's importance, but Carol is simply a longer running character. 72 issues (across three solos) and counting to Mar-Vell's 62. 1700+ appearances to Mar-Vell's 510.

There are plenty of awesome two-act characters that aren't considered afterthoughts on any level. Mar-Vell, by virtue of being a character known for dying, and being best known as the progenitor for Carol Danvers, is ideal for that role, imho. I don't think Mar-Vell is needed in his original 616 role of exploring the cosmic universe and Thanos, I think the GotG is covering that.



I like the Obi-Wan comparison. This is what I'm thinking now, thank you for bringing it up. In my head, Mar-Vell spends the first two acts of the movie being obscenely epic, reminiscent of the 70s Superman films, y'know. He should show us, in no uncertain terms why having him around any longer would make the rest of the Avengers irrelevant. So when he dies, the impetus to try and live up to him is very strong and not contrived. He understood the powers, and his place in the universe (related perhaps?).

It would also be like the movie Executive Decision. For the first part of the film it looks like a Steven Segal movie and he is the hero, but he suddenly dies part of the way through, and Kurt Russell is left to finish the job even though he thinks they can't make it without Segal.

 

[marcvader]

Mar Vell is Kyle Reese and Danvers is Sarah Conner

 

[Panthro]

Mar Vell is Kyle Reese and Danvers is Sarah Conner

My God... your're right!

 

[Artistsean]

Mar Vell is Kyle Reese and Danvers is Sarah Conner

Thats what I was saying too.

 

[Dark Raven]

Mar Vell is Kyle Reese and Danvers is Sarah Conner

That would be a pretty good template for a series of Captain Marvel/ Ms Marvel movies. Maybe Mar-Vell is there to protect her, so that she features just as prominently in the movie. Who would he be protecting her from though, who would be a Terminator-like presence? Ronan the Accuser? Terrax? It would be great if she's able to fight them on her own in the 2nd movie.

The thing about the Terminator movies is that most people remember Linda Hamilton as the star, and Michael Biehn in a more secondary role, even though in the first one he was the main protagonist there to protect her. I think the same thing could work with Mar-Vell and Carol.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Wanda did have twins of her own later, but those were just implants.....

Spoiler

memory implants

 

[cherokeesam]

I guess my point is that Ms. Marvel solo comics have never done a whole lot, until this new run, and that this is a solo film discussion. Being a well known member of a team doesn't guarantee you a solo film. If it did, Cyclops and Storm would have them.

Many many of these ideas people are floating, are Captain Mar-Vell concepts and history, with him downplayed to the point of being an Abin Sur type character. That rubs me the wrong way.

While I agree that Ms. Marvel may not be a big enough character to carry her own solo film, the existence of an Ant-Man film shoots that complaint all to hell.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, oh my goodness that is adorable!

 

[DrCosmic]

The thing about the Terminator movies is that most people remember Linda Hamilton as the star, and Michael Biehn in a more secondary role, even though in the first one he was the main protagonist there to protect her. I think the same thing could work with Mar-Vell and Carol.

The most obvious analogue would be Sentry-459. Not sure why it would target her specifically though. Keep in mind that Carol would be investigating this "Lawson" character as well - which might be a reason Sentry 459 is targeting her, I guess - so there are several reasons for her to be in the 'center' per se.

 

[spideymouse]

The most obvious analogue would be Sentry-459. Not sure why it would target her specifically though. Keep in mind that Carol would be investigating this "Lawson" character as well - which might be a reason Sentry 459 is targeting her, I guess - so there are several reasons for her to be in the 'center' per se.

Yeah, the thought had crossed my mind on where the analogy broke down: as the would-be mother of the the savior of humankind, Sarah Connor was a logical target for the Terminator; before she gets her powers, I was struggling to see how Carol Danvers could be nearly as signficant. Making her the head of SWORD could be one way. Another would be to personally tie her be closely tied to Walter Lawson in some way.

 

[DrCosmic]

She could be the reason why he 'went native' and Yon Rogg/Ronan/Zarek's natural reaction is to eliminate her in order to regain their soldier, or punish him. Puts Mar-Vell squarely in the center though, it seems. Hmm...

What if at the same time Carol is protecting Lawson from SHIELD? That'd be an interesting us-against-the-world type of set up.

 

[KangConquers]

She could be the reason why he 'went native' and Yon Rogg/Ronan/Zarek's natural reaction is to eliminate her in order to regain their soldier, or punish him. Puts Mar-Vell squarely in the center though, it seems. Hmm...

What if at the same time Carol is protecting Lawson from SHIELD? That'd be an interesting us-against-the-world type of set up.

When you said "Went native" I thought of a noble savage movie, with white Americans as the noble savages. I totally just spit up sprite, everywhere. ****er.