New Thor Villain

[Spidey]

Honestly, I think Balder should be the one to bring Asgard back. That was his function post Ragnarok in the myths, and his immunity to violent/accidental death could mean that he survived Ragnarok in the comics.

I'd go along with that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Technically, Balder should still be alive among the rubble of Asgard somewhere. He was invulnerable to everything except mistletoe while in the Asgardian realm, so unless someone was throwing mistletoe spears around during Ragnarok, Balder should still be fine. I doubt that'll be the case, though.

 

[herakles]

Technically, Balder should still be alive among the rubble of Asgard somewhere. He was invulnerable to everything except mistletoe while in the Asgardian realm, so unless someone was throwing mistletoe spears around during Ragnarok, Balder should still be fine. I doubt that'll be the case, though.

That would be COOL if Balder survived Ragnarok! Also I was bummed that there was NO mention of Thor in the July solicitations for Marvel on the the other thread

I WANT THOR BACK NOW

 

[King_Mungi]

Yes Clor is 100% going to be a villian. Your welcome

20. GOLIATH: R.I.P.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A clone of Thor created by Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Hank Pym went berserk during a skirmish, killing veteran hero Bill Foster, aka Goliath. In the final battle, Hercules appeared to destroy the clone.

Brevoort: “We saw some fallout from Goliath’s death already in Black Panther, we’ll see more in New Warriors and ‘World War Hulk’ of all places. The Thor clone was in pretty sorry shape at the end of Civil War, but he will be back in the new Thor series.”
http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/003767985.cfm?page=1

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Uh, no. The Destroyer is Odin's creation and is about a million times beyond anything Tony Stark could even fathom. Also, it's powered by magic, not tech. It's literally just a hollow suit of armor, animated by life force.

The closest Tony got to making a Destroyer armor was his "Thorbuster" armor from the "Standoff" crossover between the Thor, Iron Man, and Avengers comics. That was powered by a mystical energy source King Thor had given to Stark-Fujikawa so that they could harness it for power and ween man off of dirty fossil fuels. Tony decided it would be of more use as a power source for a new suit of armor (because he was a dick even back then) that he thought was powerful enough to take down King Thor. He was proven utterly wrong, however, when King Thor literally ripped the armor apart with only a few bruises to show for its attacks. Magic once again trumped tech.

And you forgot to mention that King Thor easily just put a huge ass dent into CA's shield, and then repaired it like it was nothing too.

Iron Man, if he lived forever, and had infinite resources, and just devoted his time to it, MAY be able to build it. But the conditions for it are so absolutely irrational, that it's ridiculous.

And Tony wasn't being an ass really, he kind of built the suit in response to Thor basically stomping down militaries around the Earth.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Technically, Balder should still be alive among the rubble of Asgard somewhere. He was invulnerable to everything except mistletoe while in the Asgardian realm, so unless someone was throwing mistletoe spears around during Ragnarok, Balder should still be fine. I doubt that'll be the case, though.

We forget that several people already knew of said weakness. Kind of like Loki, who instigated Ragnarok. But yeah. He SHOULD be around. Legend wise, he would be around after, I see no reason for him not to be now.

I'm still just hoping they don't do ANOTHER God as man idea.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

And Tony wasn't being an ass really, he kind of built the suit in response to Thor basically stomping down militaries around the Earth.

He had that armor ready to go well before Thor attacked the Slorenian military. Up until then, Thor had been overwhelmingly benevolent and peaceful. It's possible he built the armor because he saw the potential for Thor to get violent in his new, world-changing messiah role, but that's still a big betrayal given that the two were good friends; even before the respect Thor held for Cap blossomed into actual friendship, Thor and Tony were very close friends. Then Tony gets a gift that could potentially reshape the entire world's means of powering itself and what's his response? He builds the power plant to harness that energy source, yes, but he decides another good use for it would be to power a weapon that he (wrongly) believes capable of stopping his alleged friend. I'd say that's ass-worthy.

 

[PinnyPed]

And you forgot to mention that King Thor easily just put a huge ass dent into CA's shield, and then repaired it like it was nothing too.

Hee-Hee! A "huge ass dent?" What'd he do - sit on the shield? Really, I would pay good money to see that panel, just thinking of it makes me giggle.

Now, continue your discussion

 

[The Question]

He had that armor ready to go well before Thor attacked the Slorenian military. Up until then, Thor had been overwhelmingly benevolent and peaceful. It's possible he built the armor because he saw the potential for Thor to get violent in his new, world-changing messiah role, but that's still a big betrayal given that the two were good friends; even before the respect Thor held for Cap blossomed into actual friendship, Thor and Tony were very close friends. Then Tony gets a gift that could potentially reshape the entire world's means of powering itself and what's his response? He builds the power plant to harness that energy source, yes, but he decides another good use for it would be to power a weapon that he (wrongly) believes capable of stopping his alleged friend. I'd say that's ass-worthy.

Well, there is one thing that can be said in Tony's favour: He was right. Tony, I think, subscribes to a philosophy that alot of buisnessmen and government/military types do. "Hope for the best, and plan for the worst." It's not very nive, but somebody has to think like that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I never said he was wrong. I just said he was a dick, as most of those "hope for the best, plan for the worst" types usually are.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Um, Balder died in the Ragnarok arc. He was killed with a spear of mistletoe dipped in gold while defending the city. Thor attended his memorial.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I never said he was wrong. I just said he was a dick, as most of those "hope for the best, plan for the worst" types usually are.

Unfortunately, we tend to be right.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Um, Balder died in the Ragnarok arc. He was killed with a spear of mistletoe dipped in gold while defending the city. Thor attended his memorial.

I should really reread that arc now that Thor's coming back.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

He had that armor ready to go well before Thor attacked the Slorenian military. Up until then, Thor had been overwhelmingly benevolent and peaceful. It's possible he built the armor because he saw the potential for Thor to get violent in his new, world-changing messiah role, but that's still a big betrayal given that the two were good friends; even before the respect Thor held for Cap blossomed into actual friendship, Thor and Tony were very close friends. Then Tony gets a gift that could potentially reshape the entire world's means of powering itself and what's his response? He builds the power plant to harness that energy source, yes, but he decides another good use for it would be to power a weapon that he (wrongly) believes capable of stopping his alleged friend. I'd say that's ass-worthy.

Well, Thor showed up basically rerunning everything in the images he wanted it to be. (Forcing countries to use him as a power source and the like), and Tony knows all so well what happens when people have too much control. Someone in Thor's level who's used to having things his way was basically just a red flag. Close friends especially would most likely be wanted for the task. Tony probably felt that since he was one of the one's who knew Thor the most, that the responsibility was on him to put his friend on the right path again.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't recall him forcing anyone to do anything until he initiated military action against Slorenia in "Standoff." He destabilized some political norms, but those were never his concern; he was always simply helping the people who wanted help. He just didn't feel the need to ask human governments permission to do so.

I agree that, in light of Civil War, it seems likely that Tony's reasoning for building the armor was to 'help' Thor in his way, but that just underscores Tony's skewed, twisted view of friendship. I very much doubt he built the armor to put his friend on the right path, either. It seemed clear to me that he built it as a last line of defense against Thor. Rather than, you know, talking to Thor, his first thought was to build the armor. He tries to talk Thor down later, but it was still his first instinct to build a weapon that could potentially kill his friend rather than to tell him about his concerns directly.

This is all pointless, though. We see Iron Man in different ways, which cast his actions on any printed page in different lights for each of us. It's clear that Tony's done his share of good and bad, but there are still a lot of actions left open for interpretation. I interpret them differently from you and see Tony as a dick, but at the end of the day it's all still speculative because we have no way of seeing inside Tony's mind.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

While I agree that Tony probably doesn't hold friendship in the highest regard, and probably considers things and outcomes first, that doesn't mean he has a twisted and skewed view of him.

And while I would say that the closest person to Tony in basic thought pattern is me, I still wouldn't say that puts me close enough to fully judge him outside of just judging through logical standards.

Thor showed up and basically went, "This is the powersource you guys now use. Too bad if you don't like it." This would definitely trigger Tony into thinking, "Well, he's already made the first step towards a world government run by him" though I doubt it would be fascistic "we should probably have a plan, and he gave me just the power I may need to stop him if it ever comes down to that". And the whole talking to him thing was definitely not ready to happen, MOST exemplified by the total incomplete nature of the Destroyer-esque armor Tony was still developing. When you're ready to talk down a god, you HAVE to be ready to fight as well. Thor is definitely not the most passive members of the MU, and is just as quick to fighting as She Hulk is to jumping in the sack with whomever is around at the moment. (Despite the fact that Thor in his own book is actually quite level headed, even he's stubborn and willing to fight there).

And some of those people didn't want help, some of them were going to war with each other for their own reasons when Thor showed up and simply said, "Don't do it, or this entire army of Asgardians I brought with me will finish it." "Tony-esque" actually, in terms of "Do what I say, or face the consequences."

The whole thing was, Tony probably WOULD talk Thor down (God knows nobody really wants to fight him) if he had a complete armor ready to roll, but when Thor decided to step into violent matters, Tony was kind of left with no choice but to activate the armor and show up in it, to which Thor responded badly and negatively recognizing it's power source.

 

[The Question]

I fully admit that Tony's a dick. I just think that his dickishness is somewhat necessairy. Sometimes dickish moves like his are needed to get things done.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Agreed. But I don't think he's the dick that most people really just want him to be. He's a "get the job done first" kind of guy. I mean, he's generally a good spirited person that people get along with just fine, to the point that Thor considered him a friend, and Thor can be pretty picky. But Tony is definitely about the future curve, and what it may have in store, and getting ready for it.

 

[The Question]

He's pretty much like every other rich guy in comics.

 

[Vartha]

Technically, Balder should still be alive among the rubble of Asgard somewhere. He was invulnerable to everything except mistletoe while in the Asgardian realm, so unless someone was throwing mistletoe spears around during Ragnarok, Balder should still be fine. I doubt that'll be the case, though.

Someone did throw Mistletoe Spears, loads of them. Balder was dead before Thor left to do the trials of the Odinforce.

I'm still not sure who to think the villian is going to be. I'm wanting to say Tony or Clor, but, Clor wouldn't be able to with stand 5 seconds with the real deal.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thor showed up and basically went, "This is the powersource you guys now use. Too bad if you don't like it." This would definitely trigger Tony into thinking, "Well, he's already made the first step towards a world government run by him" though I doubt it would be fascistic "we should probably have a plan, and he gave me just the power I may need to stop him if it ever comes down to that". And the whole talking to him thing was definitely not ready to happen, MOST exemplified by the total incomplete nature of the Destroyer-esque armor Tony was still developing. When you're ready to talk down a god, you HAVE to be ready to fight as well. Thor is definitely not the most passive members of the MU, and is just as quick to fighting as She Hulk is to jumping in the sack with whomever is around at the moment. (Despite the fact that Thor in his own book is actually quite level headed, even he's stubborn and willing to fight there).

Yeah, that's right, except for the part where Thor never did anything of the kind. He activated a new power source in Cincinnati and deactivated the nuclear power plant that was supplying energy beforehand. That's all. If the people of Cincinnati decided they didn't want to use Thor's power plant, they could've reactivated the nuclear plant right next door to it anytime they liked. It's not like he destroyed it and forced them to use his power source. He simply offered them a safer functioning alternative to nuclear power, with no implication whatsoever that he intended to lord it over them or make them totally reliant on it. If he wanted that, why would he have given Tony a piece of the crystal from that power plant to reverse-engineer and duplicate for the entire world? He simply wanted to give mankind a blueprint for more efficient power and get them started on the path towards that goal.

Whether Tony inferred that Thor was somehow laying the groundwork for enslaving the world to his will from that has more to do with Tony's frame of mind than anything else. In fact, that was probably the most innocuous thing he did in that period of helping the world. Feeding the hungry and such was a double-edged sword because, although it helped the needy right then, it made them less self-reliant. With the power source, he helped the people in the moment and offered them the ability to help themselves in the future. Thor made no hostile overtures whatsoever in that scenario.

And some of those people didn't want help, some of them were going to war with each other for their own reasons when Thor showed up and simply said, "Don't do it, or this entire army of Asgardians I brought with me will finish it." "Tony-esque" actually, in terms of "Do what I say, or face the consequences."

I agree, that was definitely Tony-esque. Of course, Thor was mystically stripped of his humanity at the time. What's Tony's excuse again?

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yeah, that's right, except for the part where Thor never did anything of the kind. He activated a new power source in Cincinnati and deactivated the nuclear power plant that was supplying energy beforehand. That's all. If the people of Cincinnati decided they didn't want to use Thor's power plant, they could've reactivated the nuclear plant right next door to it anytime they liked. It's not like he destroyed it and forced them to use his power source. He simply offered them a safer functioning alternative to nuclear power, with no implication whatsoever that he intended to lord it over them or make them totally reliant on it. If he wanted that, why would he have given Tony a piece of the crystal from that power plant to reverse-engineer and duplicate for the entire world? He simply wanted to give mankind a blueprint for more efficient power and get them started on the path towards that goal.

Whether Tony inferred that Thor was somehow laying the groundwork for enslaving the world to his will from that has more to do with Tony's frame of mind than anything else. In fact, that was probably the most innocuous thing he did in that period of helping the world. Feeding the hungry and such was a double-edged sword because, although it helped the needy right then, it made them less self-reliant. With the power source, he helped the people in the moment and offered them the ability to help themselves in the future. Thor made no hostile overtures whatsoever in that scenario.

I agree, that was definitely Tony-esque. Of course, Thor was mystically stripped of his humanity at the time. What's Tony's excuse again?

Yeah, he implemented a whole new powersource that was absolutely untested and unrated by anybody other than him WITHOUT government approval. That's the equivalent of Tony Stark just shoving a superhuman team to solve problems in a city without anybody's approval.

Had Doctor Doom done the same thing, you'd have felt that Tony Stark's suspicions would be well placed. The moment you decide that people are exempt from rules, you introduce corrpution. And corruption is not a good thing.

And Thor has no excuse. If he's a king trying to do right by his subjects, he has to actually...you know...consider them, unless he feels he's above them (which then rolls right back around to Tony planning out for the inevitable that Thor will eventually involve himself in bigger matters, because he feels he's above humans). Thor's shown without Blake that he can be just as good. Stark hasn't really DONE that much wrong (aside from attacking Cage on minute one really. That was unexcusable) Even the assault on Captain America by Maria Hill was perfectly reasonable. I really don't know why people think Stark is really such a bad person. Outside a few irrational people on this board, I'm sure you don't honestly think Stark is that horrible of a person. Likeable? Probably not. But not a horrible person by any means.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

He's pretty much like every other rich guy in comics.

But only rarely does that occur in the real world. Funny how that works.

Someone did throw Mistletoe Spears, loads of them. Balder was dead before Thor left to do the trials of the Odinforce.

I'm still not sure who to think the villian is going to be. I'm wanting to say Tony or Clor, but, Clor wouldn't be able to with stand 5 seconds with the real deal.

I don't know why it would be Tony either. Nothing he's developed can really stand against Thor. Any version.

 

[The Question]

But only rarely does that occur in the real world. Funny how that works.

I don't know. I've never trusted Bill Gates that much. And there's a kid in my school who I swear to god is going to grow up to be Lex Luthor.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I don't know. I've never trusted Bill Gates that much. And there's a kid in my school who I swear to god is going to grow up to be Lex Luthor.

Then I'll just have to be the future Tony Stark. lol

Either way, Bill Gates is smart, but most rich people tend to be more or less guile, not exactly smart like Tony or Lex smart. Their smart is above and beyond the reach of most mortals.