New Thor Villain

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, he implemented a whole new powersource that was absolutely untested and unrated by anybody other than him WITHOUT government approval. That's the equivalent of Tony Stark just shoving a superhuman team to solve problems in a city without anybody's approval.

Had Doctor Doom done the same thing, you'd have felt that Tony Stark's suspicions would be well placed. The moment you decide that people are exempt from rules, you introduce corrpution. And corruption is not a good thing.

Dr. Doom has a long history of trying to kill people. Thor doesn't. Every one of his actions went towards his idea of bettering mankind, including the power plant.

Also, you don't know that it wasn't tested. For all you or I know, the greatest minds of Asgard had given it the stamp of approval, and/or Thor had performed the exact same procedure on Asgard a dozen or a hundred times. Certainly, he's imbued things with a sliver of the Odinforce before, which is really all he did with the power plant in Cincinnati--channeled a bit of the Odinforce into an artifact that would turn it into clean, uninterrupted power for at least a decade. Outside of the fact that we know he did that, we don't know the first thing about any preparations he may or may not have made for it beforehand, so any argument built on that basis is totally speculative.

Government approval has never been high on anyone's checklist, including Tony's. He's flouted the government and placed himself above the law on numerous occasions, including several times before and during the Civil War.

And Thor has no excuse. If he's a king trying to do right by his subjects, he has to actually...you know...consider them, unless he feels he's above them (which then rolls right back around to Tony planning out for the inevitable that Thor will eventually involve himself in bigger matters, because he feels he's above humans). Thor's shown without Blake that he can be just as good. Stark hasn't really DONE that much wrong (aside from attacking Cage on minute one really. That was unexcusable) Even the assault on Captain America by Maria Hill was perfectly reasonable. I really don't know why people think Stark is really such a bad person. Outside a few irrational people on this board, I'm sure you don't honestly think Stark is that horrible of a person. Likeable? Probably not. But not a horrible person by any means.

Thor never considered himself king of the human race before "The Reigning." He considered the human race a flock of sheep who had gone astray because, once again, mystically stripped of humanity. I wasn't talking about Blake, either; Don Blake was never Thor's humanity, he was just a mortal shell that Thor inhabited for a while. The Jake Olson we see throughout Thor vol. 2 literally was Thor's humanity given physical form because the real Jake Olson had died and moved on to Heaven already. When Odin separated Olson and Thor into 2 beings, Olson took the humanity and Thor took the power and godhood. Thor, for all of the good he did without Olson, was incapable of connecting with the humans he sought to help on any meaningful level and thus incapable of understanding what they really needed. I'd say that's a pretty good excuse, especially since it was shown pretty clearly in the denouement to "The Reigning," after Thor regained his humanity, immediately recognized the error of his ways, pulled Asgard out of the mortal realm, and stopped messing with mankind's affairs.

 

[The Question]

Dr. Doom has a long history of trying to kill people.

Actually, if you count the myths, he does.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm assuming you meant to include the "Thor doesn't" part in that quote, too. Anyway, we don't count the myths because Marvel's Asgardians all have many, many differences from the myths. Balder's not even Odin's son in the comics. Thor's been shown to be pretty lenient on humans in the past, incapacitating them without killing them.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Dr. Doom has a long history of trying to kill people. Thor doesn't. Every one of his actions went towards his idea of bettering mankind, including the power plant.

Also, you don't know that it wasn't tested. For all you or I know, the greatest minds of Asgard had given it the stamp of approval, and/or Thor had performed the exact same procedure on Asgard a dozen or a hundred times. Certainly, he's imbued things with a sliver of the Odinforce before, which is really all he did with the power plant in Cincinnati--channeled a bit of the Odinforce into an artifact that would turn it into clean, uninterrupted power for at least a decade. Outside of the fact that we know he did that, we don't know the first thing about any preparations he may or may not have made for it beforehand, so any argument built on that basis is totally speculative.

Dr. Doom also has a long standing history of the prosperity of his people, to the point there is no need or want amongst them.

If it WERE tested by anybody but the Asgardians, I doubt there would have been commotion over it, rather than Thor saying, "It's okay, and it's there, like it or not." Or else nobody would have been feeling like he's intruding on them. It only took what? A week before he decided to put it in place. Not nearly enough time for any human engineers to check it out.

Government approval has never been high on anyone's checklist, including Tony's. He's flouted the government and placed himself above the law on numerous occasions, including several times before and during the Civil War.

Actually, Tony worked with the government during Civil War, never outstepping the boundaries set for him aside from meeting with Cap and not arresting him in his own comic, and utilizing Norman Osborne. But agreed, Tony has on several occassions (most currently in his own comic with the Argonauts, which could actually be used to argue he isn't a fascist in Civil War, despite how much people want him to be one.) just decided the government didn't fit his style, and then he just does what he thinks is right (which he tends to be).

Thor never considered himself king of the human race before "The Reigning." He considered the human race a flock of sheep who had gone astray because, once again, mystically stripped of humanity. I wasn't talking about Blake, either; Don Blake was never Thor's humanity, he was just a mortal shell that Thor inhabited for a while. The Jake Olson we see throughout Thor vol. 2 literally was Thor's humanity given physical form because the real Jake Olson had died and moved on to Heaven already. When Odin separated Olson and Thor into 2 beings, Olson took the humanity and Thor took the power and godhood. Thor, for all of the good he did without Olson, was incapable of connecting with the humans he sought to help on any meaningful level and thus incapable of understanding what they really needed. I'd say that's a pretty good excuse, especially since it was shown pretty clearly in the denouement to "The Reigning," after Thor regained his humanity, immediately recognized the error of his ways, pulled Asgard out of the mortal realm, and stopped messing with mankind's affairs.

I mean Olson. x.x Why I said Blake? Who knows. And while you're right that Thor literally lacks humanity, he certaintly shouldn't lack observation.

 

[The Question]

I'm assuming you meant to include the "Thor doesn't" part in that quote, too. Anyway, we don't count the myths because Marvel's Asgardians all have many, many differences from the myths. Balder's not even Odin's son in the comics. Thor's been shown to be pretty lenient on humans in the past, incapacitating them without killing them.

It has been stated, however, that modern day Thor is a good bit more mellow than he was before his Don Blake days.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but he was just more impetuous. He wasn't a murderous fiend before living as Don Blake. He may have killed in wars that he participated in, but even as far back as his reckless adolescence, he's shown incapacitating humans without killing them and being utterly horrified at the prospect of killing for killing's sake.

Dr. Doom also has a long standing history of the prosperity of his people, to the point there is no need or want amongst them.

And I'm sure if he built a power plant in Latveria, his people wouldn't bat an eyelash. The global perception of him, however, is that he's a murderous psychopath with an obsessive hatred of the Fantastic Four that has endangered countless people on many occasions.

If it WERE tested by anybody but the Asgardians, I doubt there would have been commotion over it, rather than Thor saying, "It's okay, and it's there, like it or not." Or else nobody would have been feeling like he's intruding on them. It only took what? A week before he decided to put it in place. Not nearly enough time for any human engineers to check it out.

There wasn't any commotion over it. The only things Thor's power plant garnered were major media attention (CNN called it another of Thor's "miracles") and the praise of Cincinnati's people.

Actually, Tony worked with the government during Civil War, never outstepping the boundaries set for him aside from meeting with Cap and not arresting him in his own comic, and utilizing Norman Osborne. But agreed, Tony has on several occassions (most currently in his own comic with the Argonauts, which could actually be used to argue he isn't a fascist in Civil War, despite how much people want him to be one.) just decided the government didn't fit his style, and then he just does what he thinks is right (which he tends to be).

You agree that Tony has broken the law, though, including in times where he espoused full compliance with it, so my point still stands. He's just as guilty of acting without government approval as Thor was in this instance. The only difference is that Tony lied and said he's supporting the law 100%. Thor made it pretty clear in an earlier issue that he was going to start helping people however he could, regardless of whether it made the high and mighty governments of the world uncomfortable.

I mean Olson. x.x Why I said Blake? Who knows. And while you're right that Thor literally lacks humanity, he certaintly shouldn't lack observation.

The power of observation still doesn't make him capable of understanding human responses to his actions. He believes he's doing good because he's wholly incapable of understanding how humans interpret things. If they express perfectly logical apprehension over his acts, he views them as ungrateful children. That's a drastic departure from Thor's earlier compassion and empathy for the human race. The loss of his humanity was no trivial change, it was a fundamental shift in his perspective on pretty much everything.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yeah, but he was just more impetuous. He wasn't a murderous fiend before living as Don Blake. He may have killed in wars that he participated in, but even as far back as his reckless adolescence, he's shown incapacitating humans without killing them and being utterly horrified at the prospect of killing for killing's sake.

Unfortunately, history only works in character development on people who only judge through opinions of others. Most people who operate purely through logic wouldn't view that as the defining point for someone who's undergone a drastic change recently.

And I'm sure if he built a power plant in Latveria, his people wouldn't bat an eyelash. The global perception of him, however, is that he's a murderous psychopath with an obsessive hatred of the Fantastic Four that has endangered countless people on many occasions.

But that means nothing. The difference is, is that people will naturally view Doom as wrong and evil, when in fact, he did the "right" thing. So apparently Thor gets special treatment for the same task. The thing is, it's unfair to say Thor is just "good for it" especially with his humanity removed.

There wasn't any commotion over it. The only things Thor's power plant garnered were major media attention (CNN called it another of Thor's "miracles") and the praise of Cincinnati's people.

I'll have to reread that.

You agree that Tony has broken the law, though, including in times where he espoused full compliance with it, so my point still stands. He's just as guilty of acting without government approval as Thor was in this instance. The only difference is that Tony lied and said he's supporting the law 100%. Thor made it pretty clear in an earlier issue that he was going to start helping people however he could, regardless of whether it made the high and mighty governments of the world uncomfortable.

Well, acting outside of his duty time could easily account for him not busting up Captain America. It wasn't like he was actually working WITH the enemy. But it can be construed as him breaking his law by not busting them. And in all truth, utilizing Norman (since he was most likely indoctrined as a government employee to be used as needed by then) wasn't all that illegal either (despite me saying it was) in possibility. Keep in mind, Osborne got the deal before he went ape****. And espionage stuff is hardly illegal.

The power of observation still doesn't make him capable of understanding human responses to his actions. He believes he's doing good because he's wholly incapable of understanding how humans interpret things. If they express perfectly logical apprehension over his acts, he views them as ungrateful children. That's a drastic departure from Thor's earlier compassion and empathy for the human race. The loss of his humanity was no trivial change, it was a fundamental shift in his perspective on pretty much everything.

It would. If Thor was half brained at all, he'd have viewed the human populace as being very rejecting of people coming in and changing their lives.

Unless strong power of observation is only a human standard, and gods somehow lack higher intelligent problem solving, of course.

And especially if Thor goes on a statement saying "He'll help anyone regardless of what others think" is definitely a ploy of a single person making decisions for the world. THAT sets off red lights and buzzers.

But like you said before about Iron Man and you and I, it also goes for Thor. We both see Thor in a different light, and from at least fifteen different perspectives. To one, it looks like it's harmless, to the other, the seeds of future problems is seen. To one, one is paranoid and uncaring, to the other, he looks to be someone preparing for the rational inevitable.

 

[Purple Man]

Mephisto, definitly Mephisto.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Rune Thor would definitely be a good matchup against Mephisto.

 

[Darthphere]

I need to see Thor battle some frost giants.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I want to see him rampage over some trolls.

 

[Anubis]

I wanna see him bust somebody in the face with the hammer.

 

[PhotoJones]

i wanna see him naked.


what?

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I want candy.

 

[Caliber]

What if the villain is Blackheart?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That would be odd but cool. I like Blackheart, and he could use some time in the spotlight, especially since he and his dad have been replaced as Ghost Rider villains by Lucifer for no goddamned reason.

 

[Vanguard07]

I'd like it to be the Eternals personally.
They're starting to get back into the MU spotlight, they're powerful enough, they did the whole Eternals/Asgardians war before so theirs precident for them not getting along well.

The Eternals arent really villains or anything but I would still like to see them have some interaction/conflict with Thor and his boyeeees.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

That would be odd but cool. I like Blackheart, and he could use some time in the spotlight, especially since he and his dad have been replaced as Ghost Rider villains by Lucifer for no goddamned reason.

Yeah, I thought that was crap how they up and ditched Mephisto like that.

 

[Anubis]

I didn't really care.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I probably wouldn't have cared either if Way could actually write Ghost Rider well.

 

[lowly marvelite]

Thor kicks serious a**!! Ah...that's it...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That was random. But appreciated. 'Cause he does.

 

[Caliber]

That would be odd but cool. I like Blackheart, and he could use some time in the spotlight, especially since he and his dad have been replaced as Ghost Rider villains by Lucifer for no goddamned reason.

Blackheart is a great villain who has alot of potential. I really don't get who the new Thor villain could be. Mephisto to me would be stupid though he is a great character.

 

[sandwraith]

Aside from the Olympians, has Thor ever tussled with deities of other forgotten religion because in the right hands, figures from Aztec/Mayan religions could make great villains for Thor, maybe Quetzalcoatl but then again, Quetz is the only Aztec God I know

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He's met loads of other deities. After ascending to Odin's throne, he was tested by the Council of Godheads (the top gods of every pantheon on Earth) for membership into their group. He failed. He's fought Leir, the Celtic god of lightning (although I believe Leir was made up for the comic). He also met and/or fought a bunch of other gods from various pantheons (including the minions of Mikaboshi, who later goes on to cause lots of trouble for Ares and the Greek pantheon) in the Thor: Blood Oath mini-series.