Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - - - Part 13

[Boom]

Galadriel, as you all know, is the most powerful being in Middle Earth, at the time. And we wanted to go in there and tell that story.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/07/16/59194-full-transcript-of-the-hall-h-hobbitcon-qa/

Of course .

 

[CGHulk]

Best movie eva!

Yes!

Yeeeeessssss...

 

[terry78]

Haha, that Comic Con thing was pretty funny.

 

[SonOfMim]

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/07/16/59194-full-transcript-of-the-hall-h-hobbitcon-qa/

Of course .

Absolute justification in Boyens's mind to do something ridiculous like, oh, give Galadriel "wizard-like" powers during the battle at Dol Guldur. Wouldn't surprise me if the filmmakers use the fact that she has a Ring of Power to convey something so silly
.

 

[Boom]

And going by Christopher Lee's Christmas greeting video, looks like Saruman gets some sword play in the third one too.

Great stuff.

 

[ares834]

Absolute justification in Boyens's mind to do something ridiculous like, oh, give Galadriel "wizard-like" powers during the battle at Dol Guldur. Wouldn't surprise me if the filmmakers use the fact that she has a Ring of Power to convey something so silly
.

In all fairness, Galadriel does have "wizard-like" powers. During the War of the Ring she led Lorien into battle against Dol Guldur. In the end, "Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits." Presumably she did this through magic.

 

[SonOfMim]

^ I think that is in reference to her leading the forces of the Elves who achieved this, not that she did it within herself as a singular display of power. I could be wrong...

And I think there's better proof here:

“…the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.” Appendix B, Lord of the Rings.

it's very vague in it's wording and open to interpretation. I don't read it as saying that she did it on her own, but rather leading the Lorien elves she did this.

 

[Boom]

Yeah, that's an extremely vague passage from Tolkien that could mean any of a number of things.

So of course the filmmakers will translate it as Galadriel being a walking atom bomb and literally levelling Dol Guldur to smoldering rubble.

 

[terry78]

If you're making the movie you can pretty much interpret any passage that's not laid out literally however the **** you want.

 

[ares834]

^ I think that is in reference to her leading the forces of the Elves who achieved this, not that she did it within herself as a singular display of power. I could be wrong...

Perhaps. However, the way it is written is very similar to how Luthien destroyed Tol-in-Gaurhoth.

Here is the full passage BTW:

"After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him. but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur. but besides the valour of the elven people of that land. the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."

Seems like Galadriel did it herself. At least, it does so to me.

 

[SonOfMim]

"After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him. but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur. but besides the valour of the elven people of that land. the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."

Seems like Galadriel did it herself. At least, it does so to me.

Yeah, as I said the first part of that passage says "After the Shadow had passed"... in other words, Galadriel threw down the walls after Sauron had fled. It'd be like Barad-dur still standing after Sauron fell in Isildur's day, and the Elven forces knocking the tower down. That's how I think it reads, and it makes more sense.

Here's another way to think of it to back up my theory... At no point anywhere else in Tolkien's writings that I can recall does Tolkien imbue Galadriel with powers of hand, nor does she ever in a single moment ever display extreme might (as a Wizard could) by some act of force or magic.

Who can say?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/07/16/59194-full-transcript-of-the-hall-h-hobbitcon-qa/

Of course .

There is no doubting Boyens ridiculousness or stupidity. Every time she opens her mouth it literally gets worse.

 

[Boom]

If you're making the movie you can pretty much interpret any passage that's not laid out literally however the **** you want.

I'm not saying they can't. I'm poking fun at Jackson's pension for blowing things up. He's not exactly subtle when it comes to things like this.

But Galadriel being the strongest being in Middle-earth is just a flat-out incorrect statement. It's simply not true.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If you're making the movie you can pretty much interpret any passage that's not laid out literally however the **** you want.

Which doesn't mean you aren't interpreting it wrongly.

Yeah, as I said the first part of that passage says "After the Shadow had passed"... in other words, Galadriel threw down the walls after Sauron had fled. It'd be like Barad-dur still standing after Sauron fell in Isildur's day, and the Elven forces knocking the tower down. That's how I think it reads, and it makes more sense.

Here's another way to think of it to back up my theory... At no point anywhere else in Tolkien's writings that I can recall does Tolkien imbue Galadriel with powers of hand, nor does she ever in a single moment ever display extreme might (as a Wizard could) by some act of force or magic.

Who can say?

That is the only way I have seen it interpreted. She brought the house down after Sauron was gone.

 

[SonOfMim]

Which doesn't mean you aren't interpreting it wrongly.


That is the only way I have seen it interpreted. She brought the house down after Sauron was gone.

Exactly, I'm just saying that it doesn't read (to me) that she did it by some force that, for example, Gandalf or Saruman might have used.

I would imagine that if Jackson was going to stay someone true, rather than have her participate in combat... maybe Galadriel stood on the threshold of Dol Guldur while her forces watched on, and then maybe she claimed mastery of the fortress and commanded it to fall into ruin with it's former Master. Someone mentioned Luthien doing something similar earlier... God knows, really. I dislike characters being made into something they aren't just for the seeming-sake of the screenwriters pride.

 

[ares834]

Yeah, as I said the first part of that passage says "After the Shadow had passed"... in other words, Galadriel threw down the walls after Sauron had fled. It'd be like Barad-dur still standing after Sauron fell in Isildur's day, and the Elven forces knocking the tower down. That's how I think it reads, and it makes more sense.

Here's another way to think of it to back up my theory... At no point anywhere else in Tolkien's writings that I can recall does Tolkien imbue Galadriel with powers of hand, nor does she ever in a single moment ever display extreme might (as a Wizard could) by some act of force or magic.

Who can say?

Oh, I'm not saying she destroyed it when Sauron was around. However, she still tore it down. Dol Guldur did not collapse on it's own. This makes sense and is quite consistent with Tolkien's other writings BTW. Galadriel's brother, Finrod, duels Sauron in a battle of song (aka magic) and Tolkien even claims she is one of the greatest Noldor comparing her to Feanor.

 

[SonOfMim]

^It'll be interesting to see that's for sure. The Dol Guldur bits in Desolation were my favorite parts.

I'm more excited by the prospect of them possibly killing Radagast off... or how exactly it is that Gandalf ends up with his staff.

 

[Boom]

We last see Bolg retreating to Dol Guldur, with Legolas tailing him.

I swear to God, if Legolas frees Gandalf..

 

[SonOfMim]

I wouldn't think it'd be Legolas. Remember what Gandalf said to Radagast in Desolation? "[BLACKOUT]Turn around and don't come back." [/BLACKOUT] So I'd imagine that Radagast doesn't heed that advise, he returns, and you can guess where it goes from there.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wouldn't think it'd be Legolas. Remember what Gandalf said to Radagast in Desolation? "[BLACKOUT]Turn around and don't come back." [/BLACKOUT] So I'd imagine that Radagast doesn't heed that advise, he returns, and you can guess where it goes from there.

Well he told him to go talk to Galadriel so I assume he did that.

I honestly don't think they are going to kill Radagast. I did at first, but now I think he will hand over his staff and either leave Middle-Earth or go somewhere he'll not be bothered.

 

[superkong 500]

I wouldn't think it'd be Legolas. Remember what Gandalf said to Radagast in Desolation? "[BLACKOUT]Turn around and don't come back." [/BLACKOUT] So I'd imagine that Radagast doesn't heed that advise, he returns, and you can guess where it goes from there.

Yep plus he also told him to call galadriel for help so its clear that she comes to rescue him and that's when the stand off with the necromancer takes place.


Speaking of bolg, even though he looks far from photorealistic I think his design ended up better than I though it would and I liked his fight with legolas. I hope Legolas is the one to kill him(during the battle of five armies)instead of

Spoiler

Beorn

Spoiler

He can kill Azog or atleast finish him off after thorin gives him a mortal wound

 

[TheVileOne]

Spoiler

Can we assume that Galadriel and the White Council will rescue Gandalf?

 

[Tony Stark]

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. I loved Cumberbatch's Smaug, it was the perfect voice for the character. Luke Evans was also good as Bard the Bowman.

What is really bothering me though is that Jackson and Fran Walsh have morphed the book almost to the point of non-recognition. I was OK with the changes in AUJ, as I thought it didn't interfere with the overall fun nature of the story.

Having Kili have a love story with an elf that doesn't exist in the book and having him injured by a Morgul arrow, is just plain stupid.

By having this subplot with expanding the Necromancer story, they undermine the overall story and a fantastic villain in Smaug.

I feel this is a tale of two films. When the film is light on it's feet and acting as a child's adventure story, it soars. Whey they awkwardly try to connect it to the Rings trilogy it utterly fails. The story is about Bilbo's journey of courage, it's not about him getting tempted by the ring. They also undermine their own adaptation of the Rings trilogy as Gandalf already knows that Sauron has returned but somehow he forgets by the time TFOTR starts.

I'd love to give this film a 10/10, but the truth is, it doesn't deserve it. The best I could give it is 7.5/10, only for the performances and great effects.

There are also several unforgivable deviations from the book. When Smaug leaves Erabor to attack Lake town, Thorin and company could give a rats rear end, they are too obsessed with the plunder. The second is that Bilbo gets the Arkenstone and hides it from Thorin. Maybe this will be explored in the third, but they seem to totally bypass it. They also took out what could have been a funny lighthearted moment in how Gandalf introduces Thorin and company to Beorn.

 

[ares834]

Wait, it was a "Morgul arrow?"

lol

Edit: Where is it implied in FotR that Gandalf is unaware of Sauron's return?

 

[Tony Stark]

Wait, it was a "Morgul arrow?"

lol

Edit: Where is it implied in FotR that Gandalf is unaware of Sauron's return?

Yeah, the Orc that Legolas captures says something about it.

There was the whole bit at the beginning of Fellowship where Gandalf goes off to Minas Tirith to read Isuldur's account of the taking the One Ring. He then finds out about the writing on the band, so until he does that test on Bilbo's Ring then he sees it's one and the same. He tells Frodo something about the spirit of Sauron endured.