Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - Part 16

[ThePhantasm]

wait... [BLACKOUT]Smaug lands on the master of Laketown? PJ couldn't even get that dramatic moment right? He had to insert a comic death??[/BLACKOUT]

 

[terry78]

All that's needed is for this to be play afterwards.

[YT] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A[/YT]

 

[Victarion]

wait... [BLACKOUT]Smaug lands on the master of Laketown? PJ couldn't even get that dramatic moment right? He had to insert a comic death??[/BLACKOUT]

Actually...I don't mind this at all.

 

[Iceman]

Aragorn's speech is better in the trailer for the movie than the actual thing for some weird reason. Also has amazing music playing behind it
@1:40
[YT]r5X-hFf6Bwo[/YT]

Does sound a bit better there, although the voice is still a bit off. Sounds a little distorted or something, maybe could have been improved in a different take. Or maybe his voice is not quite as suited to booming speeches as Bernard Hill's.

Also after seeing that, The Hobbit never really had a hope in Hell of competing with LOTR. Awesome trailer and I think there is a version of it I prefer with different music. And now I'm going to have to add Karl Urban's Eomer to the list of best castings in this series.

[YT]Ryy5U2mNTJU[/YT]Theoden's speech again to stoke the memories. Dammit, after seeing the trailer and this again I'm going to have to have a full on extended edition LOTR trilogy day on Sat. t: The Hobbit films for all their faults do serve as a very nice appetiser to the main event.

 

[regwec]

For me Freeman's Bilbo may even be THE best, either him or Mckellen's Gandalf. And I'd add Mortensen as Aragorn to the list above. I didn't love every scene with Theoden but his final speech was one of the best parts of all 6 films, and the speech was surprisingly far better than Aragorn's in ROTK (who sounded like he had lost his voice a little).

Eh, Viggo's Aragorn is another can of worms for me. It was a commendable, committed performance, but I find the interpretation of the character to be very different to what I think the book fleshes out.

I would compare Viggo's Aragorn to Michael Keaton's Batman: great, but a bit wrong.

Or maybe his voice is not quite as suited to booming speeches as Bernard Hill's.

Bernard Hill was a brilliant find for the role. In that scene, I find him entirely believable as a world-weary but battle-hardened king who knows he is probably leading his men to their deaths, but somehow finds the words to put fire in their hearts.

The only thing that *slightly* sullies the scene, for me, is the continued cuts to Merry and Eowyn screaming at the camera. It seems to undercut the sense of building scale, momentum and energy.

 

[Slushy]

wait...

Right.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Eh, Viggo's Aragorn is another can of worms for me. It was a commendable, committed performance, but I find the interpretation of the character to be very different to what I think the book fleshes out.

Yeah I love Viggo's performance to death but when I read the books, it isn't what I see in my head.

(Though I guess that goes for everyone... the only impact the movies have had on my reading of the books is that I hear Christopher Lee's voice as Saruman)

 

[Venomfan]

Middle-Earth Museum in Switzerland

[YT]VBGi1L9b6zA[/YT]
http://www.greisinger.museum/en/index.html

Until last year, Jenins (pop. 914), about an hour’s drive southeast of Zurich, seemed like any other small town in Switzerland’s verdantly lush Bündner Herrschaft wine-growing region, with sloping vineyards heavy with pinot noir grapes edging up onto trim houses lined with planters of bright geraniums. These days, though, there is one very noticeable new addition.

At the end of Verduonig, a quiet residential street, a small wooden sign that announced “museum” was the only indication of the anomaly to come: a grape-vine-covered stone and red-brick structure that seemed to jut from the earth like a large mound, with a round, green oak door with brass knob, and circular windows that looked onto a small garden of rose bushes.

As any fan of J. R. R. Tolkien would recognize, it was a Hobbit hole. The remarkable structure serves as the striking entrance to the Greisinger Museum, the world’s first museum dedicated to Tolkien’s fictional universe, Middle-earth.

Opened in October 2013, the museum has seen about 3,000 visitors so far, with that number expected to rise with this month’s release of the final installment of Peter Jackson’s Hobbit trilogy, “The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.” The museum is the vision of Bernd Greisinger, a former fund manager who has amassed what is considered by many Tolkien experts to be the world’s largest trove of Middle-earth collectibles, with 3,500 books and 600 artworks including paintings and drawings by the noted Tolkien artists Douglas Beekman, Cor Blok and Alan Lee.

The museum's entrance, a Hobbit hole. Credit Enno Kapitza for The New York Times
“It’s the only museum whose sole aim is the promotion of Tolkien, Tolkien’s works and subsequent adaptations,” said Shaun Gunner, chairman of the British-based fan club, the Tolkien Society. “There is an unrivaled collection of rare books and collectibles.”

The Greisinger Museum is no ordinary museum, but one teeming with eccentricities as it descends into a warren of unusual rooms two levels underground. For starters, the Hobbit hole’s archways are only five feet high — Hobbits are short creatures, after all. Visitors can also only view the collection through one of the two-hour guided tours, many of which are held by costumed guides, Mr. Greisinger included, in German, French or Italian. (While those languages are easier to interpret than Elvish, for sure, English tours are also available for groups of 10 or more; all tours must be booked in advance, 50 Swiss francs, about the same in dollars).

Perhaps the kookiest — and most wondrous — aspect of the 36,000-square-foot museum is that each of the additional 11 rooms besides the three-room Hobbit hole represents a different location in Tolkien’s fantasy world. Tours start in the Hobbit hole, whose furnishings include rustic hand-carved wooden chairs scattered around a fire*place and a large writing desk piled with maps of Middle-earth. “We want to give people the feeling that they’re in the right place, what it feels like to be inside a Hobbit hole,” Mr. Greisinger said.

A number of collectibles are also in evidence, most notably a chandelier from Tolkien’s seaside bungalow in Poole, England, and the 1969 Ken Rudolph calendar, the first ever Tolkien fan art calendar, published with signed artwork by the Tolkien illustrator Tim Kirk.

But the Hobbit hole represents a mere scratching of the surface — literally — of the experiential museum. Its subsequent rooms are all intricately designed and unexpectedly unorthodox in shape and size: The Gondor room, spanning two floors with a spiral staircase, celebrates the great Middle-earth kingdom with white columned pillars; the Wilderland room displays two custom-built statues in the likeness of the Gates of Argonath; and a 13-foot-tall installation of a fearsome Balrog creature dominates the Moria room.

On my visit in late summer, Mr. Greisinger and I pored over a few of the 30 rare books on display, pausing to examine an inscription by Tolkien to his close friend Elaine Griffiths in an extremely rare first impression of a first edition of “The Lord of the Rings.” (The rest of the rare books collection can be seen by appointment.)

It is Mr. Greisinger’s fascination for Tolkien’s books that feeds his art collection.

“Our work is to find originals of the different illustrations in the books,” he said. While Mr. Greisinger acknowledges the Peter Jackson films with memorabilia that includes a smattering of props from the movies and a script of “The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring” signed by the cast members, he insists the films are not a focus of his museum.

“The Peter Jackson films are just one interpretation of Tolkien’s world,” he said. “My goal is to have visitors understand more of Tolkien’s world and all that is connected to it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/21/t...icmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000&_r=0

 

[Loki882]

To be fair, I found book Aragon to be rather bland. Not terrible, just bland. Actually, I don't think that Tolkien was the best character guy. Most of them weren't particularly deep or interesting. It's one of the things that I definitely think the films improve on overall, Aragorn included. Boromir REALLY gets an upgrade in the films.

 

[regwec]

Yeah I love Viggo's performance to death but when I read the books, it isn't what I see in my head.

(Though I guess that goes for everyone... the only impact the movies have had on my reading of the books is that I hear Christopher Lee's voice as Saruman)

I think the BBC radio play had a really big effect on me. I remember listening to them at night in our tent when camping with my brother, which is a pretty evocative setting for LOTR.

For that reason, Gandalf is still Michael Hordern for me; Aragorn is Robert Stephens and Sam Gamgee is Bill Nighy with a West Country accent.

 

[ThePhantasm]

To be fair, I found book Aragon to be rather bland. Not terrible, just bland. Actually, I don't think that Tolkien was the best character guy. Most of them weren't particularly deep or interesting. It's one of the things that I definitely think the films improve on overall, Aragorn included. Boromir REALLY gets an upgrade in the films.

Tolkien is a great character guy. Look at how complex Gollum, Frodo, and Sam are as characters in the book. Tolkien wrote Aragorn exactly the way he wanted to. He didn't feel the modern need to make him an angsty anti-hero type with some dark struggle.

Aragorn in many ways is a messianic type king figure whose promised return brings an end to the darkness. As such he is an archetypal figure.

 

[Loki882]

Perfectly cast characters in PJ's Middle Earth:

Gandalf
Boromir
Theoden
Denethor
Bilbo (Freeman)

LOTR wins 4-1 (4-2 if you count Gandalf's return), but Freeman's Bilbo is such a huge asset to The Hobbit movies that it almost balances the two. Without him, this trilogy would be diminished beyond repair.

I agree that he deserved to play the role in a better series of movies. Perhaps he can play Bilbo again in a new version of LOTR in 20-30 years time?

I'd personally add Aragorn, Smaug, and Sarauman to that list as well.

 

[regwec]

That's the point of characters like Aragorn and Boromir: they are archetypes against which the more "human" Hobbits are set. Aragorn is a good example for them to follow, because as an exiled king he is manfully carrying a secret burden under which lesser men would crumble, and because his sense of duty forces him to be brave without even considering himself. Boromir sets a bad example because he is overly proud and because he seeks easy answers.

 

[Loki882]

Tolkien is a great character guy. Look at how complex Gollum, Frodo, and Sam are as characters in the book. Tolkien wrote Aragorn exactly the way he wanted to. He didn't feel the modern need to make him an angsty anti-hero type with some dark struggle.

Aragorn in many ways is a messianic type king figure whose promised return brings an end to the darkness. As such he is an archetypal figure.

I have read the books, and no I didn't find any of them to be particularly complex. And I didn't care for "messianic kind" Aragorn either. He was just bland to me.

 

[Loki882]

That's the point of characters like Aragorn and Boromir: they are archetypes against which the more "human" Hobbits are set. Aragorn is a good example for them to follow, because as an exiled king he is manfully carrying a secret burden under which lesser men would crumble, and because his sense of duty forces him to be brave without even considering himself. Boromir sets a bad example because he is overly proud and because he seeks easy answers.

I get the idea behind it. I just didn't find it all that interesting personally.

 

[regwec]

Yeah, we get that.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I have read the books, and no I didn't find any of them to be particularly complex. And I didn't care for "messianic kind" Aragorn either. He was just bland to me.

I'm sure "bland" literary characters like Beowulf must bore you the **** out then.

 

[Loki882]

I think my TWO BIGGEST issues with the whole Hobbit Trilogy is the fact that Peter Jackson went "Jar Jar Binks" on himself by abandoning practical effects/make-up, that was one of the many highlights of the original LOTR trilogy, and went with totally noticeable (and sometimes glaring) CGI on these films; along with adding in things that shouldn't (imho) have been in these films to begin with while cutting out things that shouldn't have been cut out of the films at all.

I heard that he had a ***** of a time making the LOTR Trilogy. Using all the practical effects, sets, extras, and so on while dealing with the climate, weather, landscape, etc. So I guess that he just said "screw it, I'm not going through that massive headache again, especially not for THREE more movies." Not saying that that's a valid excuse, but that was probably his thinking.

 

[Quasimod0]

I'm reading through the Lord of the Rings books now for the first time in a loooong time. And I definitely picture the characters from the films, and hear their voices in my head. That really helps to bring the story to life, in my imagination.

 

[ThePhantasm]

My imagination has never required cinematic help. Another reason why I don't care one way or another if they adapt the Silmarillion.

 

[Quasimod0]

lol Jeez louise. I just meant I appreciate having seen the characters brought to life on film. And that its nice to imagine them as I read the books.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Sorry, that came across as kinda snide. People in this thread have said before that cinematic adaptations are necessary because either the books or boring or the books deserve "to be brought to life" in other words. I just don't see it that way.

I understand that's not necessarily what you meant.

 

[Marvolo]

Actually...I don't mind this at all.

It sounds hilarious. Seriously, I was hoping Smaug would roast him, but this is way better and a lot more enjoyable. Besides, in a movie like this a little humor never hurt nobody.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Humor isn't the issue... its humor in the wrong places. In this case, one of the most dramatic and weighty moments the story has to offer.

 

[ThePhantasm]

It would be like if the Eye of Sauron fell comically on top of Worm-tongue at the end of ROTK.