Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 8

[DarthSkywalker]

Maybe. Maybe not. I know I am glad to have it on screen. And I remember back when LOTR came out people saying they would love to see Radagast on screen and the White Council. Funny how things change.

I realized that if we ever wanted to see the white council and radagast on screen it had to be with the hobbit. That appendices material isnt enough to make its own film. It would require the scriptwriters to make up a lot of their own stuff to pad out the film. So its either put that stuff with the hobbit, or make a film out of it and pad it with material that is made up by scriptwriters and not Tolkien. Personally Id rather have the stuff in the Hobbit.

But don't you see, that is exactly what they did. They theoretically had a little more then films with all the appendices material, and now they are padding that material to make a extra film. From the guy who made a 3 hour Kong movie!

It is right in front of all our faces.

Personally I always wanted this material written short story style for an animated television show. The tales of Middle-Earth. You could jump around all you wanted.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ah, those were dark times indeed. We lost so many good fans.

I tried to convince myself I liked it. I went and saw it twice the day it came out. Midnight and the first showing the next morning. I had tickets for another showing, but I didn't go. I should have known then. It wasn't until I couldn't be bothered to get hyped for RoTS that I realized the toll AoTC had on me.

 

[Marvolo]

But don't you see, that is exactly what they did. They theoretically had a little more 2 films with all the appendices material, and now they are padding that material to make a extra film. From thee guy who made a 3 hour Kong movie!

It is right in front of all our faces.

Personally I always wanted this material written short story style for a animated television show. The tales of Middle-Earth. You could jump around all you wanted.

No that isnt exactly what they did. These three films are still almost all tolkien or inspired by tolkien. Each film is the hobbit, the appendices and a little padding to fill it out. A film of ONLY the appendices material would require up to like 90% creative license and material that isnt tolkien to go along with the very little appendices. By putting it with the hobbit you take up some of the room that would require padding. Also the appendices material in these films take place at the time of the hobbit. To have it in its own film would be very strange. The appendices cant stand alone as their own film. They have to be put with the hobbit or not be put on screen at all. Ill take them with the Hobbit as opposed to not at all.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No that isnt exactly what they did. These three films are still almost all tolkien or inspired by tolkien. Each film is the hobbit, the appendices and a little padding to fill it out. A film of ONLY the appendices material would require up to like 90% creative license and material that isnt tolkien to go along with the very little appendices. By putting it with the hobbit you take up some of the room that would require padding. Also the appendices material in these films take place at the time of the hobbit. To have it in its own film would be very strange. The appendices cant stand alone as their own film. They have to be put with the hobbit or not be put on screen at all. Ill take them with the Hobbit as opposed to not at all.

They wrote two films. They filmed two films. They begin editing with two films in mind and then switched it up. If they had enough material for three films, they would have written and filmed three films worth of movie. They wouldn't need to go back and film more if they weren't padding.

It isn't the appendices material that bothers me all that much. What bothers me is how they are going about this. If all of what they intended to film and add was integral and such good material in the first place, why didn't they write and film the movies as three? Why did they come to this decision less then a half a year before the release of the first film? No one finds it bizarre that if they were so meticulous in their writing they would have known this before one set was built?

That is the thing, there is apparently so much there, they don't even know what they have and these are the same people who are editing the film. Of course these films have a great chance of being scatter-shot and bloated.

 

[obin_gam]

The funniest thing, is that the edn credits are clearly made for when it was just two films since there are credits there with roles that isnt in this one :P

 

[CoolCadaver49]

Terrible.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The funniest thing, is that the edn credits are clearly made for when it was just two films since there are credits there with roles that isnt in this one :P

Is this true?

 

[Marvolo]

They wrote two films. They filmed two films. They begin editing with two films in mind and then switched it up. If they had enough material for three films, they would have written and filmed three films worth of movie. They wouldn't need to go back and film more if they weren't padding.

It isn't the appendices material that bothers me all that much. What bothers me is how they are going about this. If all of what they intended to film and add was integral and such good material in the first place, why didn't they write and film the movies as three? Why did they come to this decision less then a half a year before the release of the first film? No one finds it bizarre that if they were so meticulous in their writing they would have known this before one set was built?

That is the thing, there is apparently so much there, they don't even know what they have and these are the same people who are editing the film. Of course these films have a great chance of being scatter-shot and bloated.

Actually they planned two films and when they assembled them they had way too much for two films so it was either cut a large chunk out or shoot enough to add to that large chunck and make another film out of it . If you have watched the docs on the LOTR you know how peter, fran, and philipa work. They do rewrites and tweak the script throughout the whole production. So what they started out with would look unlike what they finished with. They did plan for two films, but through rewrites and changes they got bigger leaving them in a conundrum. Release two 4+ hour films, cut large chunks from both films, or shoot more to make three films.

You seem to think that when they decided to make three films they went and shot a whole other film. That isnt the case. When they assembled film one it was much too large for a theatrical release which in the case of Jackson had to have meant it was close to 4 hours. Now bearing that in mind he had to pull that hour out of part one, but what to do with it leave it on the floor? That would be a lot for a film to lose in editing. Stick it in part two? That would just make part two even bigger so that wouldnt work at all. So they made the only other choice they had at that point. They pulled enough out of part one to get it to a manageable length and pulled bits out of part 2 to get it down to a manageable length then they filmed a bit more so they could take all the bits and make a third film. In short, when they decided on a third film they didnt go shoot a whole other film. They already had nearly enough for three films. They just needed to shoot a bit more to add to what they had and that gave them enough for a total of three films.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The funniest thing, is that the edn credits are clearly made for when it was just two films since there are credits there with roles that isnt in this one :P

Wow.

 

[Marvolo]

Lol I swear to god if people start *****ing about the end credits I will facepalm so hard that the fabric of space and time will tear and no one will see this film.

 

[redhawk23]

Actually they planned two films and when they assembled them they had way too much for two films so it was either cut a large chunk out or shoot enough to add to that large chunck and make another film out of it . If you have watched the docs on the LOTR you know how peter, fran, and philipa work. They do rewrites and tweak the script throughout the whole production. So what they started out with would look unlike what they finished with. They did plan for two films, but through rewrites and changes they got bigger leaving them in a conundrum. Release two 4+ hour films, cut large chunks from both films, or shoot more to make three films.

You seem to think that when they decided to make three films they went and shot a whole other film. That isnt the case. When they assembled film one it was much too large for a theatrical release which in the case of Jackson had to have meant it was close to 4 hours. Now bearing that in mind he had to pull that hour out of part one, but what to do with it leave it on the floor? That would be a lot for a film to lose in editing. Stick it in part two? That would just make part two even bigger so that wouldnt work at all. So they made the only other choice they had at that point. They pulled enough out of part one to get it to a manageable length and pulled bits out of part 2 to get it down to a manageable length then they filmed a bit more so they could take all the bits and make a third film. In short, when they decided on a third film they didnt go shoot a whole other film. They already had nearly enough for three films. They just needed to shoot a bit more to add to what they had and that gave them enough for a total of three films.

Well see here lies my problem with this whole making multiple films thing, and furthermore the decision to expand into 3 films:

In what way is the second film at all going to work as a sensible film experience? Its hard to do these mid story breaks into other films when they are planned before hand. When planned before hand, they can at least build to something to close out that film and that portion of the story. Its always an artificial break. But making two breaks in the story because you realize way late in the game that the two half you have are unmarketable, thats kind of a major problem.

I have hope for these movies, but the situation is certainly problematic.

 

[redhawk23]

Lol I swear to god if people start *****ing about the end credits I will facepalm so hard that the fabric of space and time will tear and no one will see this film.

I don't think anyone is complaining its just indicative of so many other things. And is slightly humorous.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Actually they planned two films and when they assembled them they had way too much for two films so it was either cut a large chunk out or shoot enough to add to that large chunck and make another film out of it . If you have watched the docs on the LOTR you know how peter, fran, and philipa work. They do rewrites and tweak the script throughout the whole production. So what they started out with would look unlike what they finished with. They did plan for two films, but through rewrites and changes they got bigger leaving then in a conundrum. Release two 4+ hour films, cut large chunks from both films, or shoot more to make three films. You seem to think that when they decided to make three films they went and shot a whole other film. That isnt the case. When they assembled film one it was much too large for a theatrical release which in the case of Jackson had to of meant it was close to 4 hours. Now bearing that in mind he had to oull that hour out of part one, but what to do with it leave it on the floor? Stick it in part two? That would just make part two even bigger so that wouldnt work. So they made the only other choice they pulled enough out of part one to get it to a manageable length and pulled bits out of part 2 to get it down to a manageable length then they filmed a bit more so they could take all the bits and make a third film.

I know how they work. I also think that is why the original trilogy took a somewhat downward trajectory.

And what you do is edit. You cut and work. They can release two 3 and half hour films into the theater. RoTK was that long and it killed at the box-office. If what they added during the process couldn't fit those seven hours plus the obvious EE that will come, then I think it is safe to say they probably messed up at some point.

They are changing the flow to the story, re-crafting climaxes and creating two brand new artificial endings after already creating one. All right before they released the first film.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well see here lies my problem with this whole making multiple films thing, and furthermore the decision to expand into 3 films:

In what way is the second film at all going to work as a sensible film experience? Its hard to do these mid story breaks into other films when they are planned before hand. When planned before hand, they can at least build to something to close out that film and that portion of the story. Its always an artificial break. But making two breaks in the story because you realize way late in the game that the two half you have are unmarketable, thats kind of a major problem.

I have hope for these movies, but the situation is certainly problematic.

Exactly. I still feel that each film will be good and enjoyable just because it is Middle-Earth, but from a film standpoint? I have major concerns.

I don't think anyone is complaining its just indicative of so many other things. And is slightly humorous.

Just how late in the game this all is.

 

[obin_gam]

Is this true?

I'm fairly sure of it. [blackout]Benedict Cumberbatch[/blackout] isnt in this one at all yet his name is there. And then we have [blackout]Conan Stevens as Bolg[/blackout] which I cant remember seeing, but has his name there still.

Lol I swear to god if people start *****ing about the end credits I will facepalm so hard that the fabric of space and time will tear and no one will see this film.

I don't think anyone is complaining its just indicative of so many other things. And is slightly humorous.

Yeah, I'm not complaining, just making an observation. And it's not so far fetched since..

Just how late in the game this all is.

yep

 

[Marvolo]

I know how they work. I also think that is why the original trilogy took a somewhat downward trajectory.

And what you do is edit. You cut and work. They can release two 3 and half hour films into the theater. RoTK was that long and it killed at the box-office. If what they added during the process couldn't fit those seven hours plus the obvious EE that will come, then I think it is safe to say they probably messed up at some point.

They are changing the flow to the story, re-crafting climaxes and creating two brand new artificial endings after already creating one. All right before they released the first film.

The LOTR individual books had artificial endings as well. Anyone who has read the tome knows that the endings to each book arent really endings at all. And Jackson's LOTR films are the same way. They have endings that arent really endings. Jackson seems to have found a satisfactory way to end each Hobbit film the same way and it seems like he picked a good ending for the first part of the Hobbit so I dont see why the "artificial" endings are a problem.

 

[redhawk23]

Yeah, they had a hard time finding a suitable point to end the two towers film, moving several elements back and forth between in and Return of the King.

The problem is they had that difficulty when they knew it was going to a middle film. Now they had to find two ending points that weren't going to exist previously.

 

[Boom]

I'm fairly sure of it. [blackout]Benedict Cumberbatch[/blackout] isnt in this one at all yet his name is there. And then we have [blackout]Conan Stevens as Bolg[/blackout] which I cant remember seeing, but has his name there still.



Yeah, I'm not complaining, just making an observation. And it's not so far fetched since..


yep

I thought the [blackout]Necromancer[/blackout] and [blackout]Bolg[/blackout] made brief appearances in the movie?

 

[obin_gam]

I thought the Necromancer and Bolg made brief appearances in the movie?

We see [BLACKOUT]The Necromancers shadow starts to take a human-like shape from his mist like form for about 5 seconds. I doubt Cumberbatch had anything to do with that breif mist-effect.[/BLACKOUT]

[BLACKOUT]_____Bolg_____ [/BLACKOUT]I didnt see anywhere in the movie at all. I could have missed him though, so if anyone would correct me on this I'll revise my position on his appearance.

 

[Boom]

We see [BLACKOUT]The Necromancers shadow starts to take a human-like shape from his mist like form for about 5 seconds. I doubt Cumberbatch had anything to do with that breif mist-effect.[/BLACKOUT]

Fair point.

[BLACKOUT]_____Bolg_____ [/BLACKOUT]I didnt see anywhere in the movie at all. I could have missed him though, so if anyone would correct me on this I'll revise my position on his appearance.

I thought he had a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance in the prologue. Of course, if that's the case, then there really wouldn't be any point in including him in the credits.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The LOTR individual books had artificial endings as well. Anyone who has read the tome knows that the endings to each book arent really endings at all. And Jackson's LOTR films are the same way. They have endings that arent really endings. Jackson seems to have found a satisfactory way to end each Hobbit film the same way and it seems like he picked a good ending for the first part of the Hobbit so I dont see why the "artificial" endings are a problem.

Because they are creating them on the fly, with the footage already shot. You are suddenly taking something that wasn't suppose to be an end point and crafting it not during writing or filming, but editing. That is how you mess with pacing. That is how scenes get longer and scenes that would have been cut get left in, as you try to artificially lengthen things before your new climax that must come later.

Yeah, they had a hard time finding a suitable point to end the two towers film, moving several elements back and forth between in and Return of the King.

The problem is they had that difficulty when they knew it was going to a middle film. Now they had to find two ending points that weren't going to exist previously.

Which means you aren't simply playing with the end points, but the entire film.

If something was originally going to be the mid-point and is now the 3rd act, you are dramatically changing how the entire film works.

Imagine if 6 months before the release of FOTR, they decided it was going to be two films.

 

[Marvolo]

Someone needs to stay after the credits to see if there is a trailer for the Desolation of Smaug. They put a TTT trailer after the credits of FOTR.

 

[vinsanity]

Someone needs to stay after the credits to see if there is a trailer for the Desolation of Smaug. They put a TTT trailer after the credits of FOTR.

here in Portugal, they didn't show nothing after the credits

 

[Iceman]

Haven't they gone out of their way to make each Dwarf quite individual though. I thought that was the idea behind the vastly different looks and personalities.

Well that's kind of my point. You have to go out of your way to do that unlike with Aragorn, Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli, Frodo & Boromir. If that had been 6 dwarves you would have had to go out of your way just to get to the same starting point as that group. Noone will ever forget one of those characters but one of 6 dwarves always has a chance at getting missed. t:

 

[HowardStark]

Ah, those were dark times indeed. We lost so many good fans.

I didn't per say dislike the Star Wars Prequels like some seem too but I am glad to say Jacksons didn't make that bad a Prequel attempt.