Official The Ultimates Thread

[celldog]

Look man, if I wanted to listen to Rush Limbaugh, he's on a local channel. I don't need to read you regurgitating his talking points. I come here to talk comics.

Those photos aren't from Rush Limbaugh!! You can't dismiss those happy people!!

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Plus i don't see how they could have sneaked in all those zeplins without anyone noticing... that is definetly goin to need explanation.

They have Loki on their side. When you have a reality-warping Norse God on your side, you don't need stealth or a cloaking device.

 

[The Question]

http://iofstorm.blogspot.com/2005/11/some-great-pictures.html

Yes we can! Yes we should!! We are our brother's keeper. With great power comes great responsibility. The U.S. has used it's power for the good of this planet. Whether it's a Tsunami or and Iranian earthquake! And if a country is a threat to others or it's people we are their. They love freedom just like you.

No, we shouldn't. The U.S. has absolutely no right to invade another country and change how it's run to suit us. We are not the world's police. We are not imfalible. We should not be the one to decide these kinds of things. Iraq was not an imediate threat to us. We had no right to go in by force and change things. If we want to see changes in the world, we have to work with the U.N. and the other countries of the world to change things. We have to use diplomacy. And we can't act like we run the whole goddamn planet.

 

[Killgore]

Those photos aren't from Rush Limbaugh!! You can't dismiss those happy people!!

He never said that they were. And he dismissed nobody. Plus, the photos prove nothing. As if Iraqis can read and write English. For all we know, the soldiers forced them to hold those signs. There, I did it.

*picks up megaphone* "Happy people, you are dismissed."

 

[Killgore]

No, we shouldn't. The U.S. has absolutely no right to invade another country and change how it's run to suit us. We are not the world's police. We are not imfalible. We should not be the one to decide these kinds of things. Iraq was not an imediate threat to us. We had no right to go in by force and change things. If we want to see changes in the world, we have to work with the U.N. and the other countries of the world to change things. We have to use diplomacy. And we can't act like we run the whole goddamn planet.

Ummm, why not? Because you say that America can't? Sorry, I need a better reason.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Think about it. America has invaded two countries in the past five years, destroyd their governments, and turned them into our own versions of them. Yes, they had ******* leaders. But who are we to just barge into other countries and tell them what's best? Also, we've pretty much made ourselves in charge of the U.N., and when they do tell us not to do something we tell them to piss of and we do it anyway.

As for "they're the ones who blow up their own kids", the U.S. has sent 18 year old kids in the middle east to die for oil.

Now, I'm not trying to be a "liberal leftist", as you put it (I tend to consider myself a centrist), but there is some serious bull**** going on with our government right now. It really wouldn't surprise me if other countries saw America as the new roman empire.

And the "they're the ones who blow up their own kids" comment wasn't cool. Try to be a little more sensative.

Great poster as always.

 

[The Question]

Ummm, why not? Because you say that America can't? Sorry, I need a better reason.

Because one country shouldn't go around telling people what's best for them. That's a very slippery slope, one which leads to fascism. Now, I'm not saying that America is fascist. What I'm saying is that alot of what we're doing right now is in many ways similar to what fascists in the past hve done. We, nor any country, should go around and tell other countries how to be. That's not anyone's or any single country's right. The only way we can truely make things better is by PEACEFULLY working with the other nations of the world. Sure, there will always be *******s who want to **** all over everone. And then, yes, force is necesairy. But, if there is not imideate threat, then peaceful means are best.

 

[Cyclops]

"Ultimates 2" issue 9, guys... political debate elsewhere.

 

[The Question]

"Ultimates 2" issue 9, guys... political debate elsewhere.

Sorry. But then, with a comic like The Ultimates, it was bound to spark a political debate, which in turn shows both how much the comic book industry has grown and how good Ultimates is.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

"Ultimates 2" issue 9, guys... political debate elsewhere.

This was extremely predictable. Millar likes to push people's political buttons. But right or not, you guys have to realize that the vast majority of people on this planet don't like Americans, and NO, we're not "jealous of your freedom" , we just don't like the fact that an ignorant and hypocritical war machine almost entirely motivated by greed is slowly but surely taking over the world.

 

[GNR]

Sorry. But then, with a comic like The Ultimates, it was bound to spark a political debate, which in turn shows both how much the comic book industry has grown and how good Ultimates is.

Preach the word.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

 

[Killgore]

Because one country shouldn't go around telling people what's best for them. That's a very slippery slope, one which leads to fascism. Now, I'm not saying that America is fascist. What I'm saying is that alot of what we're doing right now is in many ways similar to what fascists in the past hve done. We, nor any country, should go around and tell other countries how to be. That's not anyone's or any single country's right. The only way we can truely make things better is by PEACEFULLY working with the other nations of the world. Sure, there will always be *******s who want to **** all over everone. And then, yes, force is necesairy. But, if there is not imideate threat, then peaceful means are best.

Ha! You actually labeled your argument as a "slippery slope"! Do you even realize that such an argument is a fallacious use of logic? To be valid requires independent justification to connect the inevitability of "telling people what's best for them" to an occurrence of fascism. It's like the age-old "camel's nose" example of this fallacy, "once a camel has managed to place its nose within a tent, the rest of the camel will inevitably follow."

I'm not saying that America should do one thing or another, I'm just saying that your argument lacks credibility.

 

[Killgore]

Wow, Millar's taking a sabbatical and he's still got us riled up.

 

[The Question]

Ha! You actually labeled your argument as a "slippery slope"! Do you even realize that such an argument is a fallacious use of logic? To be valid requires independent justification to connect the inevitability of "telling people what's best for them" to an occurrence of fascism. You haven't.

The "camel's nose" provides one example of this: once a camel has managed to place its nose within a tent, the rest of the camel will inevitably follow.

I'm not saying that America should do one thing or another, I'm just saying that your argument lacks credibility.

I wasn't saying that fascism was inevitable. I was just saying it was a possibility that seems a bit more likely lately. And how is saying it's a slippery slope a bad arguement? It means that what we're doing right now could very easily lead to something much worse, and we should stop before it gets to that point.


Also, what does fallacious mean? I'm sorry, it's just that I'm unfamiliar with the word.

 

[Killgore]

A fallacious statement is misleading and deceptive.

 

[The Question]

Oh. Well, It was not intended to be so. I wasn't saying America becoming a fascist state was inevitable. I was just saying that right now, it seems more likely.

 

[celldog]

I need duct tape to keep my head from exploding. You hypocrites love the freedom that you have. But you don't mind having others wait and endure torture, mass murder, rape & religious persecution. You really think diplomacy would have worked on an evil heart like Saddam's or the Taliban?? They've been trying that for years with no results.

They tried diplomacy with Hitler. They even gave him territory. Did it work??? Look.......there is a time that force is needed. When evil will not relent, it must be cut out!! Do people die as a cost? Yes!! That's just life!! Freedom is not free.

Infrastructure is being put in where there was none. The Iraqi stock exchange is booming! Women don't have to fear rape. Iraqis are buying appliances and computers...stuff they couldn't get with Saddam! They are voting!!! Stuff you get to enjoy!!

You don't hear this on the news. There's a media bias. All you get is a body count and a car bomb. You have been duped like most. It's sad that our soldier's hard work goes unnoticed.

 

[celldog]

And those photos were not staged. Most Iraqis can speak and read english. It's americans who only know their own language.

You'd rather see a car bomb.

 

[The Question]

I need duct tape to keep my head from exploding. You hypocrites love the freedom that you have. But you don't mind having others wait and endure torture, mass murder, rape & religious persecution. You really think diplomacy would have worked on an evil heart like Saddam's or the Taliban?? They've been trying that for years with no results.

They tried diplomacy with Hitler. They even gave him territory. Did it work??? Look.......there is a time that force is needed. When evil will not relent, it must be cut out!! Do people die as a cost? Yes!! That's just life!! Freedom is not free.

Infrastructure is being put in where there was none. The Iraqi stock exchange is booming! Women don't have to fear rape. Iraqis are buying appliances and computers...stuff they couldn't get with Saddam! They are voting!!! Stuff you get to enjoy!!

You don't hear this on the news. There's a media bias. All you get is a body count and a car bomb. You have been duped like most. It's sad that our soldier's hard work goes unnoticed.

Yes, there is a time when force is necesairy. But it is NOT to invade another country who posed no threat to us and force them to change their government. If you may remember, we didn't take part in WWII untile we were atacked by the Axis. If we say that we have the right to go into other countries and change how things are run, then how can we honestly oppose other countries who do the same thing? We are not infalible, and thus cannot think that it's okay for us to do it because we have good intentions.

One country shouldn't be going around and deciding how things should be run. One country should not be bossing others around. We have to work with other countries to make thing better. Not push them around and use force to prove our point.

 

[celldog]

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/the_picture_from_iraq_you_wont_see_in_the_news&page=all


Are all of these staged???

 

[DBM]

Hey.

How about those Ultimates, huh?

Stuff sure happened in that comic didn't it?

Maybe we should move back on topic. If you want to get all politically then head over to the Community forum.

 

[celldog]

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/image/34994778


Think she didn't know this was an American flag??

 

[The Question]

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/the_picture_from_iraq_you_wont_see_in_the_news&page=all


Are all of these staged???

Mabey. Mabey not. Doesn't change the fact that the U.S. government has been forcing the world to change the way it wants to. Weather it be for good or ill, that does not nor will it ever sit right with me.

 

[DBM]

Hey.

How about those Ultimates, huh?

Stuff sure happened in that comic didn't it?

Maybe we should move back on topic. If you want to get all politically then head over to the Community forum.

I wish I were a Mod.