Official Young Avengers Discussion Thread

[runawayboulder]

Yeah but what time frame does this take place in again? Steve is Cap....is it pre-Civil War? Or is it right after SIEGE?

 

[Dread]

The pencils were drawn "many months ago", but I am thinking this series began before CIVIL WAR. But in terms of the writing, I think it is supposed to be taking place after SIEGE. So that is supposed to be Rogers there, even if he isn't Capt. America. Jim Cheung wasn't going to redraw pages of material to make the costumes match because the series is already about five years late.

AVENGERS: THE CHILDREN'S CRUSADE #1 sold at #34 of Diamond's Top 100 comic sellers list for July 2010. Hard numbers are unknown but that implies sales were about 44k-45k, not including any reprints. That's actually quite a bump from where DARK REIGN: YOUNG AVENGERS ended up, by about 10k-20k. Either anticipation for the return of the original creators really was high, Marvel convinced retailers that "this one counts", or removing "YOUNG" from the title confused retailers. At any rate, it'll be interesting to see how it holds up over the 18 months that it will take to finish the tale.

 

[runawayboulder]

Well I guess if it's directly after SIEGE (like 24-48hrs after), you could buy that since he wasn't set up as Commander Rogers yet.

Still doesn't explain the Wolverine thing. They've been fighting together side by side on Utopia for a minute now.

 

[Dread]

I think the story is set after SIEGE, but the art is from pre-CIVIL WAR, at least for the first few issues or so.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Has Thor appeared at all? Or does he basically get left out of the Avengers line-up, even though Cap and Iron Man are present, because he would've still been dead when this s*** was supposed to come out?

 

[Dread]

Thor has not appeared at all. The only adult Avengers who have are the Avengers who were New Avengers around Civil War; Iron Man, Cap, Ms. Marvel, and as of issue two, Wolverine, etc. It actually will be REAL awkward if Sentry shows up. Will the dialogue pretend that he's Thor in cosplay?

Then again, only one issue has shipped, and this preview didn't have any dialogue or narration boxes.

The narration in the first issue makes it plain that Heinberg has at least edited his script enough that it takes place after SIEGE to a degree. The first issue recap page claimed the artwork was outdated and to forgive the costumes, because us slobs should be happy it's out at all, right?

 

[Galact-Gal]

Well I guess if it's directly after SIEGE (like 24-48hrs after), you could buy that since he wasn't set up as Commander Rogers yet.

Still doesn't explain the Wolverine thing. They've been fighting together side by side on Utopia for a minute now.

Wolverine still doesn't trust Magneto. In the backup story from last month's Uncanny (Heinberg & Coipel), Magneto found out about the existence of Wiccan & Speed. Mags was asking Cyclops what he knew about them, when Wolverine showed up and warned him off. "Those kids are under our protection." (It took me a minute to realize that by 'our' he meant the Avengers. ) Anyway, Wolvie basically said he didn't care what Magneto did, he fully expects him to go bad again.

 

[Specter313]

Yeah but what time frame does this take place in again? Steve is Cap....is it pre-Civil War? Or is it right after SIEGE?

Another thing to help with the time frame is in the last issue of Uncanny X-Men to come out, Heinberg wrote a back up story where while they were cleaning up after the events of Second Coming, Magneto finally learned about Wiccan and Speed and it was heavily implied that he left the island to search for them even though Cyclops said not too but told him to take time off anyway and that's what led to him showing up at the end of the last issue.

 

[Dread]

Wolverine still doesn't trust Magneto. In the backup story from last month's Uncanny (Heinberg & Coipel), Magneto found out about the existence of Wiccan & Speed. Mags was asking Cyclops what he knew about them, when Wolverine showed up and warned him off. "Those kids are under our protection." (It took me a minute to realize that by 'our' he meant the Avengers. ) Anyway, Wolvie basically said he didn't care what Magneto did, he fully expects him to go bad again.

I see. I hadn't read the back-up strip, so...that is interesting.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thor has not appeared at all. The only adult Avengers who have are the Avengers who were New Avengers around Civil War; Iron Man, Cap, Ms. Marvel, and as of issue two, Wolverine, etc. It actually will be REAL awkward if Sentry shows up. Will the dialogue pretend that he's Thor in cosplay?

Then again, only one issue has shipped, and this preview didn't have any dialogue or narration boxes.

The narration in the first issue makes it plain that Heinberg has at least edited his script enough that it takes place after SIEGE to a degree. The first issue recap page claimed the artwork was outdated and to forgive the costumes, because us slobs should be happy it's out at all, right?

Awesome. Heinberg & Cheung, taking unprofessionalism to new plateaus.

 

[Dread]

Awesome. Heinberg & Cheung, taking unprofessionalism to new plateaus.

It would not be a problem if Marvel had not enabled them.

At least Cheung has done artwork during the years since Heinberg was away. He drew interiors for various comics here and there, like THE ILLUMINATI, as well as covers for subsequent YOUNG AVENGERS material. That said, it does show a lack of long term planning that Marvel couldn't have asked him to re-draw some of those pages/panels with Rogers in the wrong suit months ago. Iron Man is in the wrong armor as well, but it's a bit less jarring for Iron Man. Especially since, immediately after SIEGE he was using some old armor before making his newest suit in his own title.

That said, considering this is a $4 a pop bi-monthly, it does stretch professionalism to ask fans to please forgive an error. But, that's the Joe Q era for you. The bullpen is more of a playpen when it comes to pandering to creator demands. Jim Shooter he isn't, for better or worse.

 

[runawayboulder]

But, that's the Joe Q era for you. The bullpen is more of a playpen when it comes to pandering to creator demands. Jim Shooter he isn't, for better or worse.

No doubt about that. I feel sorry for those guys if the next EIC after Quesada is more Shooter-like. They are gonna be soooooo F-ed!t:

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm sure they'll just jump to DC or creator-owned stuff. That's what always happens. Hell, some of the talent Marvel has now was driven there by s***ty editorial policies at DC under Dan DiDio.

 

[Dread]

If DC was still unable to offer as many lucrative contracts as Marvel seems to, it won't matter. I refuse to believe an EIC who demanded professionalism and accountability with by nature also have to be intolerable to work with or a squasher of creativity. Can't we for once have a medium between extremes? In comics? In politics? In LIFE?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Doesn't seem like it.

 

[Dread]

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18166.html

Hard numbers are known now. AVENGERS: THE CHILDREN'S CRUSADE #1 sold 41,808 copies at #34 of the Top 100 for July. It was actually a bad month for comic sales, which fell 12% from July 2009. That almost eliminated sales gains over the last two months (16% gain in May and a 1% gain in June).

Now, I forget about where DARK REIGN: YOUNG AVENGERS debuted, and that was the last mini series based around the franchise (even if in practice it was mostly about the Young Masters). SIEGE: YOUNG AVENGERS #1 in April (another down month) sold 43,886 copies. Which means that, apparently, the original YA creative team returning to the franchise (or reuniting for retailers unable to figure out it was YA under a new name and not another Avengers title) was less of a draw than a random SIEGE one shot. I recall some issues of YOUNG AVENGERS PRESENTS tumbling into the low 25k-30k territory, so if this can avoid that over 18 months, that won't be so bad. I am curious how willing Marvel will be to issue an ongoing again with this team even after Heinberg is finished with them.

Still, a Top 35 debut for a series that has really been in cryogenic freeze since 2005 isn't bad at all.

 

[hippie_hunter]

If DC was still unable to offer as many lucrative contracts as Marvel seems to, it won't matter. I refuse to believe an EIC who demanded professionalism and accountability with by nature also have to be intolerable to work with or a squasher of creativity. Can't we for once have a medium between extremes? In comics? In politics? In LIFE?

I think that was the point of having Geoff Johns, Jim Lee, and Dan DiDio promoted to be in charge of DC so that you could have the perspectives of the writer, artist, and editor in charge and get that middle ground that demands creativity and professionalism.

Dare I say, it seems to be working so far. For the most part, I've been enjoying DC's output more than Marvel's.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I have absolutely not been doing so. The interests of the people up top at DC are wildly different from mine, so it's like getting a post-"OMD" Spider-Man for several of their characters (although, granted, not that extreme). Yeah, their comics may be good, but they're not the versions I'm interested in. Then there are just the flat-out embarrassments like Titans and Cry for Justice. I find myself reading fewer and fewer DC superhero comics each month.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

I completely ****ing hate that Children's Crusade is bi-monthly. I really, really do.

 

[Dread]

I think that was the point of having Geoff Johns, Jim Lee, and Dan DiDio promoted to be in charge of DC so that you could have the perspectives of the writer, artist, and editor in charge and get that middle ground that demands creativity and professionalism.

Dare I say, it seems to be working so far. For the most part, I've been enjoying DC's output more than Marvel's.

As a Marvel fan and a relative DC outsider (I buy, at best, two DC titles, and one is a mini), I've never gotten the urge to try out too many of DC's books since about 2006 or so. Dan DiDio I don't think is entirely competent; he may be a pleasant chap to talk to, but Joe Q has outdone him for years (and Joe Q's hardly Captain Competence himself). Jim Lee may be a legend, but I feel he is too set in what was cool, design wise, in the 1990's and has had a hard time adapting. I mean, his first major icon redesign, and what does he do? Fashion Wonder Woman for 1994 Image comics. As for Geoff Johns, he is DC's version of Bendis (their best selling, most important writer, unless you count Grant Morrison), but also like him, he seems set in whatever meets his fancy from his youth, and if you're not into that, tough. In truth, both Marvel and DC are run by old fanboys wanting to recapture their youth, I think that DC is simply more blatant about it than Marvel, and DC's youth is a bit more quaint.

I completely ****ing hate that Children's Crusade is bi-monthly. I really, really do.

It does ask a long commitment for fans and retailers. I mean, Alex Ross' JUSTICE took 2 years to complete, and that was for painted artwork. While I recall enjoying it at the time, it probably was not worth it in the long haul. Given that this is also $4 a pop, one or two bad issues could sink it for me.

 

[hippie_hunter]

As a Marvel fan and a relative DC outsider (I buy, at best, two DC titles, and one is a mini), I've never gotten the urge to try out too many of DC's books since about 2006 or so. Dan DiDio I don't think is entirely competent; he may be a pleasant chap to talk to, but Joe Q has outdone him for years (and Joe Q's hardly Captain Competence himself). Jim Lee may be a legend, but I feel he is too set in what was cool, design wise, in the 1990's and has had a hard time adapting. I mean, his first major icon redesign, and what does he do? Fashion Wonder Woman for 1994 Image comics. As for Geoff Johns, he is DC's version of Bendis (their best selling, most important writer, unless you count Grant Morrison), but also like him, he seems set in whatever meets his fancy from his youth, and if you're not into that, tough. In truth, both Marvel and DC are run by old fanboys wanting to recapture their youth, I think that DC is simply more blatant about it than Marvel, and DC's youth is a bit more quaint.

I think that the massive missteps of the past couple of years such as Countdown, pissing off Mark Waid and Chuck Dixon, and failing to capture the momentum from Infinite Crisis has really had an effect on Dan DiDio.

Instead of pushing away talent, you now have JMS, Paul Cornell, Marc Guggenheim, and David Finch defecting from Marvel, bringing Paul Levitz back to writing after having him step down as DC's publisher, and securing talent such as Scott Snyder and Jeff Lemire. And DC has been really pushing their franchises to get more people to read them to restore a lot of the momentum lost with what Grant Morrison is doing with Batman, revitalizing the Flash, and having JMS work on Superman and Wonder Woman.

As for Jim Lee, his duties go beyond just art. Jim Lee's efforts have put DC at the frontier of digital comics, along with working with video games involving DC's characters, WildStorm, and editorial. And I think that he's adapted his art pretty damn well for this era as opposed to his other Image collegues. Asides from the jacket, his Wonder Woman redesign is rather good.

And yeah, Johns is a total fanboy. No argument there.

 

[Dread]

Hey, if DC wants JMS, you can keep him! DC and Marvel can always claim their share of talented figures as well as incompetent editorial and shameless fanboy creators. What matters is output, which is always subjective.

As mind boggling as Marvel's decisions are, many of DC's are worse. I do think DC is somewhat more willing to try something new, or have more experience with Vertigo and the trade market to have more reasonable sales expectations. Marvel literally believes everything they sell should move 800,000 copies, and still can, all they need do is relaunch this, reprint that, put out a Deadpool book...

 

[BrianWilly]

So that time Clint had hate-sex with Wanda...

...actually a Doombot?

 

[Kevin]

So that time Clint had hate-sex with Wanda...

...actually a Doombot?

Oh, ****. Whu????

Damn, I cant wait to read this book in 2 years.

But didn't Beast also find her?

 

[BrianWilly]

That might have been a Doombot too. Well, all we really know is that the Wanda they find at the end of this issue was a Doombot and that Doom actually has her. We're not sure when exactly he replaced the real Wanda, or even if the real Wanda was ever actually in Transia...but Doom would certainly have the technological and mystical aptitude to fool Beast and Clint.