OK...its time.....Man of Steel vs Superman Returns - Part 1

Discussion in 'Man of Steel' started by Thread Manager, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. GREEN =w= DAY

    GREEN =w= DAY Well-Known Member

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    the movie should have been called Superman Lifts because that's all he does in the movie. he lifts an airplane, a car, an island, and the Daily Planet structure.

    not one damn punch thrown! only lifting
     
    #26
  2. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    Should MOS have been called Superman Punches?
     
    #27
  3. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    Spot on.
     
    #28
  4. Loki882

    Loki882 Well-Known Member

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    Lois and Clark having a child is actually a good idea (it completes his journey from alien to member of the human race/society). However, it was executed HORRIBLY in SR. The movie should have been called Lex and Lois, since that's who it was actually about (Superman was a guest in his own film).
     
    #29
  5. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    No, the whole story is triggered by Superman. His son, Luthor being able to get free, Lois moving on with a new boyfriend, and his return has a major impact in the life of the major characters.

    But I agree that the son was a good idea. It completes also the fatherhood theme that Donner inserted in Superman's story. And acknowledging his own fatherhood, Superman's speech, same as Jor-el's, is a perfect and beautiful symbol of completion.
     
    #30
  6. Loki882

    Loki882 Well-Known Member

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    The film follows Lex and Lois. There motives are explained thoroughly and we see their desires and what they do to achieve them. They both get more screentime than Clark. Superman was just kind of there (we never really got into his head like we did Lex/Lois).
     
    #31
  7. bluearth

    bluearth Well-Known Member

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    lol, now that is funny

    I know some bash the Man of Steel Daily Planet characters as being underdeveloped, but did Returns do any better? Lawrence Fishburne is already a much better Perry White then Frank Langella. Fishburne's performance and presence demanded more respect, was intelligent, and compassionate. Or does more lines equal character development? Langella never stood out, he was a cutout newspaper editor.

    And Jimmy Olsen? The disposable, annoying buddy character? Once again more lines equals character development?

    I felt Man of Steel did a good job of painting powerful, believable supporting characters even though this film was certainly all about Clark Kent which minimized their screen time.
     
    #32
  8. Loki882

    Loki882 Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy was actually great, maybe my favorite character in the movie. I agree with the rest of your post however, bluearth.
     
    #33
  9. Lei D Loki

    Lei D Loki casual fan

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    Couldn't vote anymore but I vote MoS by a mile. Superman Returns was an okay movie but it didn't make me want to see it again in the theaters.
     
    #34
  10. kal-elrebooted

    kal-elrebooted True Superman Fan

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    I saw Man of Steel more than once in theaters. Can't say the same about Returns.
     
    #35
  11. STARMAN

    STARMAN Rebel With A Cause

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    I like Cavill's Superman better than Routh. That's enough for me.
     
    #36
  12. John Lambert

    John Lambert Well-Known Member

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    The only reason anyone roots for SM at all in SR over Richard is because he is Superman. If it was anyone but SM/LL no one would root for them to get back together.
     
    #37
  13. John Lambert

    John Lambert Well-Known Member

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    I am ok with Superman having a child in some cases. The way they did it in SR was horrible.

    For one thing, the best defense of Lois is "She knows that Jason is SM's child". In that case, she should have told SM that when they meet. I see why they didn't go that way, but the adding to the suspense and surprise latter on is not a good reason for Lois to mistreat SM.
     
    #38
  14. MydnightPhoenix

    MydnightPhoenix Lois Lane --> Leia Lane

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    I think Lois had every right to be pissed at Superman, but the way the movie was written and directed gives to my ammo to the "Superman is a dead beat dad/Lois is a skank who doesn't know the father of her child" people.
     
    #39
  15. Loki882

    Loki882 Well-Known Member

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    And her entire Pulitzer-Prize winning article is portrayed as a petty attempt to punish her ex and not a serious professional piece, which diminished both the accomplishment and her character
     
    #40
  16. Lei D Loki

    Lei D Loki casual fan

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    She wrote an article? See, I can't even remember the story in SR. I recall him having a kid and lifting an island or something. There was kryptonite. Other than that, nothing. One of these days, I'll get around to re-watching it again.
     
    #41
  17. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    The film follows Superman too.

    Superman's motives too.

    How much more time do Lois and Lex separately get more than Clark/Superman?

    And yes, we can get into Superman's motivations when we see him sad because Lois has moved on, so we get why he tries to gain her back. We also get - finally - how he feels about being asked to solve everything by people. We also get what his priorities are in an emergency (leaving Lois in order to save the city), and how he feels about having a son. And, of course, how he feels about Luthor.

    *************************************

    That's about the best thing. Superman is still a hero, but he's not impervious to make mistakes. I myself enjoyed the movie very much but was absolutely unsure regarding Superman regaining Lois. And he didn't. Finally Lois chooses Richard and Superman pays the price of his mistakes.



    Lois mistreated Superman? When? She was just - and understandably so - angry at him for not saying good-bye.


    *************************************


    How so? He didn't know. In fact, SHE didn't know either.

    And yes, Lois had every reason to be mad at him.


    ****************************************


    Maybe the people giving her the award was more interested in the quality of the article and not her personal motivations?


    ********************************************


    Your personal memory problem, a certain evidence of a movie's quality?
     
    #42
  18. Loki882

    Loki882 Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't change the fact that her big article was based on pettiness and spite and it demeas her character. No, seeing him looking sad isn't the same as getting in his head. Lois and Lex get a lot of time and dialogue to develope their motives. Superman mopes silently a lot. You and I jsust disagree on that.
     
    #43
  19. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    How does it? When has Donner's Lois been the epitome of correctness and objectivity?

    And that certainly is not a matter that should concern the Pulitzer Prize at the moment of awarding a worthy article.

    Yes, it is.

    You get the reaction and you know the reasons that makes him sad.

    And if that's not enough there's one scene where he tells Lois how he feels about being Superman, as I explained you in my last post.

    Oooooh, you mean SR didn't spoonfeed everything for you.

    Well, every proper writer knows characters are not a mean to verbally explain what they are and how they feel. Sure, Goyer doesn't have a clue about this basic rule and some people don't care about getting everything and not having things verbally explained, but that's a different matter.
     
    #44
  20. bluearth

    bluearth Well-Known Member

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    #45
  21. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    Oh, come on. If you include minorities that makes a movie better??? Please tell me you're kidding. Please.
     
    #46
  22. bluearth

    bluearth Well-Known Member

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    For starters its more realistic. If Superman is suppose to be about an American hero then shouldnt the cast represent Americans? America is a melting pot, so making the cast all white doesnt do the film justice.

    And its not just Laurence Fishburn or Harry Lennix, theres also Rebecca Buller. Theres not alot of information about her on the internet, but she looks Italian to me.
     
    #47
  23. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    So basically the Superman comics are racists because of this theory of some people? Give me a break.
     
    #48
  24. Loki882

    Loki882 Well-Known Member

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    In the early years, yes they were rather racist (all comics were at that time). Today, not so much.
     
    #49
  25. MydnightPhoenix

    MydnightPhoenix Lois Lane --> Leia Lane

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    Woo! I was happy seeing a black General in the movie. And I don't know if Rebecca is a minority.
     
    #50

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