OK...its time.....Man of Steel vs Superman Returns - Part 1

[GREEN =w= DAY]

the movie should have been called Superman Lifts because that's all he does in the movie. he lifts an airplane, a car, an island, and the Daily Planet structure.

not one damn punch thrown! only lifting

 

[Senator Pleasury]

the movie should have been called Superman Lifts because that's all he does in the movie. he lifts an airplane, a car, an island, and the Daily Planet structure.

not one damn punch thrown! only lifting

Should MOS have been called Superman Punches?

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I see no problem with LnC having children together, they've been together for 75yrs and I do not necessarily believe it is impossible for Supes to have children with her. I do think it is better if it is in an ending scenario and doesn't continue in other stories.
SR left a lot of questions open about Superman and Lois' relationship and how it resulted in Jason. Did Lois get pregnant in Superman II? Is the fact that Superman lost his powers the reason Jason is so sick? Did Superman and Lois have a relationship post Superman II and that's how she got pregnant? Does Lois know from the beginning who Jason's father is? When did she meet Richard and does he believe he is the father?
Apparently these questions would have been answered in the sequel but I honestly think they should have made it clear in the actual movie instead of just ending the movie with some major question marks.

Spot on.

 

[Loki882]

Lois and Clark having a child is actually a good idea (it completes his journey from alien to member of the human race/society). However, it was executed HORRIBLY in SR. The movie should have been called Lex and Lois, since that's who it was actually about (Superman was a guest in his own film).

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Lois and Clark having a child is actually a good idea (it completes his journey from alien to member of the human race/society). However, it was executed HORRIBLY in SR. The movie should have been called Lex and Lois, since that's who it was actually about (Superman was a guest in his own film).

No, the whole story is triggered by Superman. His son, Luthor being able to get free, Lois moving on with a new boyfriend, and his return has a major impact in the life of the major characters.

But I agree that the son was a good idea. It completes also the fatherhood theme that Donner inserted in Superman's story. And acknowledging his own fatherhood, Superman's speech, same as Jor-el's, is a perfect and beautiful symbol of completion.

 

[Loki882]

The film follows Lex and Lois. There motives are explained thoroughly and we see their desires and what they do to achieve them. They both get more screentime than Clark. Superman was just kind of there (we never really got into his head like we did Lex/Lois).

 

[bluearth]

the movie should have been called Superman Lifts because that's all he does in the movie. he lifts an airplane, a car, an island, and the Daily Planet structure.

not one damn punch thrown! only lifting

lol, now that is funny

I know some bash the Man of Steel Daily Planet characters as being underdeveloped, but did Returns do any better? Lawrence Fishburne is already a much better Perry White then Frank Langella. Fishburne's performance and presence demanded more respect, was intelligent, and compassionate. Or does more lines equal character development? Langella never stood out, he was a cutout newspaper editor.

And Jimmy Olsen? The disposable, annoying buddy character? Once again more lines equals character development?

I felt Man of Steel did a good job of painting powerful, believable supporting characters even though this film was certainly all about Clark Kent which minimized their screen time.

 

[Loki882]

Jimmy was actually great, maybe my favorite character in the movie. I agree with the rest of your post however, bluearth.

 

[Lei D Loki]

Couldn't vote anymore but I vote MoS by a mile. Superman Returns was an okay movie but it didn't make me want to see it again in the theaters.

 

[kal-elrebooted]

I saw Man of Steel more than once in theaters. Can't say the same about Returns.

 

[STARMAN]

I like Cavill's Superman better than Routh. That's enough for me.

 

[John Lambert]

To be honest, I don't really think SR could even qualify for having a decent subplot considering on how the whole situation between Superman and Lois in SR was something that many hated; let alone the fact that another issue was on how Routh and Bosworth really had no chemistry with each other on screen.

I mean how could they think that people would root for Superman and Lois to be together if she's with a guy that's as nice and great like Superman, but without powers, and some would even argue that Richard White was a better person, in terms of characterization at least, than Superman was in SR.

The only reason anyone roots for SM at all in SR over Richard is because he is Superman. If it was anyone but SM/LL no one would root for them to get back together.

 

[John Lambert]

Superman having a kid was downright stupid

I am ok with Superman having a child in some cases. The way they did it in SR was horrible.

For one thing, the best defense of Lois is "She knows that Jason is SM's child". In that case, she should have told SM that when they meet. I see why they didn't go that way, but the adding to the suspense and surprise latter on is not a good reason for Lois to mistreat SM.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I think Lois had every right to be pissed at Superman, but the way the movie was written and directed gives to my ammo to the "Superman is a dead beat dad/Lois is a skank who doesn't know the father of her child" people.

 

[Loki882]

And her entire Pulitzer-Prize winning article is portrayed as a petty attempt to punish her ex and not a serious professional piece, which diminished both the accomplishment and her character

 

[Lei D Loki]

She wrote an article? See, I can't even remember the story in SR. I recall him having a kid and lifting an island or something. There was kryptonite. Other than that, nothing. One of these days, I'll get around to re-watching it again.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

The film follows Lex and Lois.

The film follows Superman too.

There motives are explained thoroughly and we see their desires and what they do to achieve them.

Superman's motives too.

They both get more screentime than Clark. Superman was just kind of there (we never really got into his head like we did Lex/Lois).

How much more time do Lois and Lex separately get more than Clark/Superman?

And yes, we can get into Superman's motivations when we see him sad because Lois has moved on, so we get why he tries to gain her back. We also get - finally - how he feels about being asked to solve everything by people. We also get what his priorities are in an emergency (leaving Lois in order to save the city), and how he feels about having a son. And, of course, how he feels about Luthor.

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The only reason anyone roots for SM at all in SR over Richard is because he is Superman. If it was anyone but SM/LL no one would root for them to get back together.

That's about the best thing. Superman is still a hero, but he's not impervious to make mistakes. I myself enjoyed the movie very much but was absolutely unsure regarding Superman regaining Lois. And he didn't. Finally Lois chooses Richard and Superman pays the price of his mistakes.

I am ok with Superman having a child in some cases. The way they did it in SR was horrible.

For one thing, the best defense of Lois is "She knows that Jason is SM's child". In that case, she should have told SM that when they meet. I see why they didn't go that way, but the adding to the suspense and surprise latter on is not a good reason for Lois to mistreat SM.

Lois mistreated Superman? When? She was just - and understandably so - angry at him for not saying good-bye.


*************************************

I think Lois had every right to be pissed at Superman, but the way the movie was written and directed gives to my ammo to the "Superman is a dead beat dad/Lois is a skank who doesn't know the father of her child" people.

How so? He didn't know. In fact, SHE didn't know either.

And yes, Lois had every reason to be mad at him.


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And her entire Pulitzer-Prize winning article is portrayed as a petty attempt to punish her ex and not a serious professional piece, which diminished both the accomplishment and her character

Maybe the people giving her the award was more interested in the quality of the article and not her personal motivations?


********************************************

She wrote an article? See, I can't even remember the story in SR. I recall him having a kid and lifting an island or something. There was kryptonite. Other than that, nothing. One of these days, I'll get around to re-watching it again.

Your personal memory problem, a certain evidence of a movie's quality?

 

[Loki882]

That doesn't change the fact that her big article was based on pettiness and spite and it demeas her character. No, seeing him looking sad isn't the same as getting in his head. Lois and Lex get a lot of time and dialogue to develope their motives. Superman mopes silently a lot. You and I jsust disagree on that.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

That doesn't change the fact that her big article was based on pettiness and spite and it demeas her character.

How does it? When has Donner's Lois been the epitome of correctness and objectivity?

And that certainly is not a matter that should concern the Pulitzer Prize at the moment of awarding a worthy article.

No, seeing him looking sad isn't the same as getting in his head.

Yes, it is.

You get the reaction and you know the reasons that makes him sad.

And if that's not enough there's one scene where he tells Lois how he feels about being Superman, as I explained you in my last post.

Lois and Lex get a lot of time and dialogue to develope their motives. Superman mopes silently a lot. You and I jsust disagree on that.

Oooooh, you mean SR didn't spoonfeed everything for you.

Well, every proper writer knows characters are not a mean to verbally explain what they are and how they feel. Sure, Goyer doesn't have a clue about this basic rule and some people don't care about getting everything and not having things verbally explained, but that's a different matter.

 

[bluearth]

Man of Steel had a diverse cast. Superman Returns pretty much kept the cast all white like the 1978 film

But not only is the Man of Steel cast diverse, the black actors hold powerful positions in the film, and arent just token characters that eventually get killed off.

Good article about that here

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2013/06/14/commentary-race-racism-and-the-man-of-steel.html

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Man of Steel had a diverse cast. Superman Returns pretty much kept the cast all white like the 1978 film

But not only is the Man of Steel cast diverse, the black actors hold powerful positions in the film, and arent just token characters that eventually get killed off.

Good article about that here

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2013/06/14/commentary-race-racism-and-the-man-of-steel.html

Oh, come on. If you include minorities that makes a movie better??? Please tell me you're kidding. Please.

 

[bluearth]

Oh, come on. If you include minorities that makes a movie better??? Please tell me you're kidding. Please.

For starters its more realistic. If Superman is suppose to be about an American hero then shouldnt the cast represent Americans? America is a melting pot, so making the cast all white doesnt do the film justice.

And its not just Laurence Fishburn or Harry Lennix, theres also Rebecca Buller. Theres not alot of information about her on the internet, but she looks Italian to me.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

For starters its more realistic. If Superman is suppose to be about an American hero then shouldnt the cast represent Americans? America is a melting pot, so making the cast all white doesnt do the film justice.

And its not just Laurence Fishburn or Harry Lennix, theres also Rebecca Buller. Theres not alot of information about her on the internet, but she looks Italian to me.

So basically the Superman comics are racists because of this theory of some people? Give me a break.

 

[Loki882]

In the early years, yes they were rather racist (all comics were at that time). Today, not so much.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Woo! I was happy seeing a black General in the movie. And I don't know if Rebecca is a minority.