Prometheus - Part 8

[Pink Ranger]

All this talk seems to be predicated on the assumption that the xenomorph at the end of Prometheus is at the lower end of the evolutionary scale, whereas the ones we see in the Alien movies are the more advanced species that came as a result of later mutation that got out of control.

But why not the opposite? Maybe it is the "proto-xenomorph" that is the mutation, something that arrived accidentally through David's experiments. Maybe the xenomorph life cycle was never intended to act the way it did in Prometheus, and that the alien at the end is in fact a new form of life that of which we don't realize the potential of.

 

[spider-neil]

I definitely think the ooze is keyed into the psyche of the individual that touches it, this would explain how the ooze effected different people in different ways but had no effect on David.

 

[DACrowe]

All this talk seems to be predicated on the assumption that the xenomorph at the end of Prometheus is at the lower end of the evolutionary scale, whereas the ones we see in the Alien movies are the more advanced species that came as a result of later mutation that got out of control.

But why not the opposite? Maybe it is the "proto-xenomorph" that is the mutation, something that arrived accidentally through David's experiments. Maybe the xenomorph life cycle was never intended to act the way it did in Prometheus, and that the alien at the end is in fact a new form of life that of which we don't realize the potential of.

Well how about the ship(s) on LV-223 in Prometheus are where they designed the xenomorph weaponry. The black goo was the first step towards creating eggs and xenomorphs. The crashed ship in Alien on LV-426 (which looks like it orbits the same planet) is the finished product, with the black goo making perfect xenomorph forms. However, David playing with it and taking this evolutionary material and infecting Charlie with it distorts its effects, just like we see with the worms. He then combines it with his own DNA when his infected semen impregnate Shaw. Thus it has 2/3 human DNA and that distorted it when it made an abnormally large face hugger that had a human-esque mouth as well as phallic abilities. Then the xenomorph it creates has human teeth and other aspects that are warped from the cleaner xenomorph design the engineers usually develop with the material.

I think that makes sense.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Heh. Wouldn't it be strange if the proto-xenomorph (called "the Deacon" I think) could actually talk?

 

[Paroxysm]

I thought this was neat.

 

[EML420]

Maybe the thing that Shaw took out of her was not finished and had to adapt in a different way to survive.

 

[chamber-music]

Heh. Wouldn't it be strange if the proto-xenomorph (called "the Deacon" I think) could actually talk?

[YT]aVZUVeMtYXc[/YT]

 

[Destructus86]

Heh. Wouldn't it be strange if the proto-xenomorph (called "the Deacon" I think) could actually talk?

Voiced by Martin Short.

 

[regwec]

Well how about the ship(s) on LV-223 in Prometheus are where they designed the xenomorph weaponry. The black goo was the first step towards creating eggs and xenomorphs. The crashed ship in Alien on LV-426 (which looks like it orbits the same planet) is the finished product, with the black goo making perfect xenomorph forms. However, David playing with it and taking this evolutionary material and infecting Charlie with it distorts its effects, just like we see with the worms. He then combines it with his own DNA when his infected semen impregnate Shaw. Thus it has 2/3 human DNA and that distorted it when it made an abnormally large face hugger that had a human-esque mouth as well as phallic abilities. Then the xenomorph it creates has human teeth and other aspects that are warped from the cleaner xenomorph design the engineers usually develop with the material.

I think that makes sense.

The problem with that is that the supersquid had already completed the 'facehugger' part of its cycle; it was about to burst out of Shaw when she had it surgically removed. One of the biggest conundrums about this is that there seems to be a whole extra stage in the squid-alien's metamorphosis.

I think the whole question rests on what exactly is in the carbon cylinders.

(I) Is it an ooze which "weaponises" existing organisms? That's what it seems to do to Holloway, and that's what it seems to do when it turns the "worms" into the aggressive "serpents". The worms in this scenario are incidental, organisms that would be metamorphic but probably not form the killing machines that they become by exposure to the ooze.

But how come the "weaponising" ooze forms a new creature that grows in Shaw's womb?

(II) Is it early-stage genetic material? In this case the worms "hatch" from the ooze, then grow to serpents, which we assume impregnate other hosts and thus create Xenos. Shaw is impregnated with early stage material, which bonds with either her DNA or Holloway's, so the resulting spawn is octopodian rather than serpentine in nature.

But why in this case does the genetic material have a "weaponising" effect on Holloway? It's hard to see how this protoplasma or whatever can form a new creature and turn Holloway into Frankenstein's monster as a mere side effect.

I think either one or other of these must be the correct analysis, but I can't work out which.

 

[terry78]

Voiced by Martin Short.

Doing his Ed Grimley character no less.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

I thought this was neat.

Holy crap I want this on my wall so bad
Are prints of this being sold or is it just fan art?

 

[sandmjuggalos]

But why in this case does the genetic material have a "weaponising" effect on Holloway? It's hard to see how this protoplasma or whatever can form a new creature and turn Holloway into Frankenstein's monster as a mere side effect.

I think either one or other of these must be the correct analysis, but I can't work out which.

Some of the new pics show what he was supposed to look like originally. It looks a lot more like a xenomorph than the "zombie" version. (Which in my opinion they should have kept.) It would have explained a little more, I think.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That poster is great.

 

[regwec]

Could I trouble you for a link, please?

If so, I don't understand how the ooze can form a new creature that gestates in Shaw, and genetically alter Holloway to resemble the same creature that is growing within Shaw, two stages further in its metamorphosis.

That is even more bizarre!

 

[Pink Ranger]

Voiced by Martin Short.

Naw man, H. Jon Benjamin. That voice is automatically hilarious.

 

[DACrowe]

I definitely think the ooze is keyed into the psyche of the individual that touches it, this would explain how the ooze effected different people in different ways but had no effect on David.

I don't think the ooze has to do with "psyche." That sounds too much like the mood slime from Ghostbusters II.

I think it just reacts to different DNA make-ups and how it's administered. The eggs on LV-426 were designed to have that specific result by the engineers and to be perfect weapons. The black goo is still in various forms of testing and experimentation on the ship in Prometheus. I don't think worms have much of a "psyche" at all but are transformed into dangerous vagina snakes because of how their genetics react to it. David didn't have any reaction because he is a robot and synthetic, as opposed to organic and biological. I think the goo in some ways is just it's own weapon because it can create various monsters by interacting with various creatures. The fact it was incubating in human womb (probably similar to those of female engineers) is why it took on the characteristics of a face hugger in Shaw. But a very different one than what we see in the other movies.

 

[DACrowe]

The problem with that is that the supersquid had already completed the 'facehugger' part of its cycle; it was about to burst out of Shaw when she had it surgically removed. One of the biggest conundrums about this is that there seems to be a whole extra stage in the squid-alien's metamorphosis.

It was about done growing inside of Shaw (she may have been knocked out at a while and seemed to have a rapid expansion). Again, I think it has something to do with how face hugger eggs are made. We don't know how the eggs were originally developed into their perfect state in Alien, though it is implied they've been making them for quite some time. As engineer DNA is so similar to human DNA, perhaps there are some components of their own DNA in xenomorphs and the original eggs are incubated? Hence why when it has human DNA, very similar to that of engineers, it incubates inside Shaw's womb and comes closer to the face-hugger design preferred by the engineers. However, as the process is likely different (developed through sex by infected humans), the result is still somewhat varied from the traditional face hugger. Hence one that, like a human, grows from birth to adult hood in a much larger size and again has human features (mouth, teeth, the phallic object it shoves into the final engineer's mouth, etc.).

(I) Is it an ooze which "weaponises" existing organisms? That's what it seems to do to Holloway, and that's what it seems to do when it turns the "worms" into the aggressive "serpents". The worms in this scenario are incidental, organisms that would be metamorphic but probably not form the killing machines that they become by exposure to the ooze.

But how come the "weaponising" ooze forms a new creature that grows in Shaw's womb?

It's pretty clearly a biological weapon that can turn any biological creature (i.e. not-David) into a potential weapon. But at it's most refined form it can be used as the building blocks to the xenomorph, the "perfect organism" to quote Ash or perhaps any of the engineers. Shaw and Hollway incidentally created the conditions in her womb to turn it into a xenomorph, but a messier less elegantly designed one as it was done by accident.

But why in this case does the genetic material have a "weaponising" effect on Holloway? It's hard to see how this protoplasma or whatever can form a new creature and turn Holloway into Frankenstein's monster as a mere side effect.

We never see Holloway's finished genetic mutation before he dies. I imagine Fifield is supposed to be something similar, but that was where the movie had really awkward and uneven writing/plotting. I think they should have just left Fifield dead and the other scientists find his head melted away by acid. Then Janek still lets Holloway on board to be treated against Vickers's wishes and Holloway transforms fully into whatever the black goo would make of him and goes on a killing spree. It would have paced the movie better and feel less jarring as Holloway's death was so sudden as was Fifield's return. In fact, I really wonder why they didn't just combine those elements as they blend so easily.

 

[Schlosser85]

Was the engineer dead before he "gave birth"?

He looked dead, but I thought I saw/heard his heart beating a final couple times when the xenomorph was laying there in his remains.

 

[scifiwolf]

See, I didn't think the black stuff was anything at all. It seemed more like a broth or something which contained the little things (one of which David gave to Holloway). I thought those were the actual weapons, not the ooze.

 

[DACrowe]

Was the engineer dead before he "gave birth"?

He looked dead, but I thought I saw/heard his heart beating a final couple times when the xenomorph was laying there in his remains.

He looked unconscious. You know, they could have made this all a lot easier if they named the moon L-426 (who cares if the gas is a little different) and the final scene is the engineer stumbling back into his control room to send out a signal in his cockpit when you know who bursts out of his chest. Then again, that xeno was so mutated from the traditional design by being created from infected human sex, it would be really confusing how it could lay those perfect eggs. Still, if it had ended that way, I think it would have flowed better.

See, I didn't think the black stuff was anything at all. It seemed more like a broth or something which contained the little things (one of which David gave to Holloway). I thought those were the actual weapons, not the ooze.

You might be right. It seemed a bit different from the rest of the ooze. Perhaps the black ooze itself is just genetic life-creating conditions, hence how when the SJ drinks it at the beginning of the movie it creates life on Earth. They add those little suckers to weaponize it on LV-223, hence the rest of the movie.

 

[Schlosser85]

What David gave Holloway was just a drop of the ooze he had on his fingertip.

 

[Schlosser85]

He looked unconscious.

Lucky him, I guess.

 

[Spade]

Have you walked out of a movie with someone and they said "I don't get it"? To which you might've responded "What's there to get? Everything was explained, you're just not thinking about it hard enough"? For me, Prometheus' biggest flaw is that if someone told me they didn't get it, I might start to defend some of its ambiguity. But I'd have to stop midway because a lot of it isn't ambiguous at all, it simply doesn't make much sense.

I liked parts of it. It's gorgeous in places, with some of the most meticulously crafted special effects and sets I've seen in a long time. I liked the classic storytelling and imagery in it, how it makes new cycles without disregarding the history, and appreciate the attempt to make quality science fiction. It even has its moments of awe, however few and far in between they might be. But those parts belong in an awesome high concept music video, where Scott wouldn't be restrained by such an otherwise flawed script.

Was the engineer dead before he "gave birth"?

He looked dead, but I thought I saw/heard his heart beating a final couple times when the xenomorph was laying there in his remains.

I was under the impression it was the Alien's, since it sounded the flutter of a baby's heartbeat. It had that "yolk sac" attached to it, whereas the Engineer looked quite dead.

 

[Nightwatcher11]

guys out of curiousity, I havent seen the film yet, is the conflict in the film caused from this 'black goo' or is it something a little more complicated? like the tenticle thing? much appreciated.

 

[Caekzor]

I was under the impression it was the Alien's, since it sounded the flutter of a baby's heartbeat. It had that "yolk sac" attached to it, whereas the Engineer looked quite dead.

Yeah and look how big "Deacon" was.