The Amazing Spider-Man Script getting a rewrite

[Crook]

Fans screamed for Venom so the studio thought hey...we can make some more money this way. The fans screamed for Deadpool and Gambit so the studio thought hey...we can make some more money this way. The fans screamed for Indy IV and George Lucas was salivating and look at what we got.

Even McG listened to fans for Terminator Salvation and that movie was terrible. Go look over in the Transformers forum and read some of the ridiculous stuff hardcore fans want to be in those already mediocre movies. Don't listen to fans. Do what you want because you will never please everybody and if you try to please everybody, your movie is going to suck.

But that isn't looking at the bigger picture. Yes, fans wanted Venom, Deadpool, and Gambit. But did they want it in the way they were eventually depicted? Judging from the reactions, that would be a definitive no.

You're a Lost fan, so I'll put this in an analogy you can relate with. There was a big backlash against the flashback episode with Jacob/MIB. You could say this with a few of the current season's episodes, actually. Fans weren't pleased with how the writers revealed plot points, or answered questions. Are they to be blamed because that's what they asked for in the first place? Or is it the creative team for not adequately approaching it to the fanbase's wishes?

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

WELL.. BY ALL SAKES, Let us DEFINITELY police People's Opnions.

Alert the Opinion Police!!!!! t:

welcome to the hype slag.

Perhaps he, empowered by the poor critical acclaim of SM3, grew some cocunuts and decided to Demand more control of SM4.. resulting in Sony "giving him his Walking Papers".

actually critical acclaim was mixed....

 

[chaseter]

But that isn't looking at the bigger picture. Yes, fans wanted Venom, Deadpool, and Gambit. But did they want it in the way they were eventually depicted? Judging from the reactions, that would be a definitive no.

You're a Lost fan, so I'll put this in an analogy you can relate with. There was a big backlash against the flashback episode with Jacob/MIB. You could say this with a few of the current season's episodes, actually. Fans weren't pleased with how the writers revealed plot points, or answered questions. Are they to be blamed because that's what they asked for in the first place? Or is it the creative team for not adequately approaching it to the fanbase's wishes?

Fans of the show hated that episode but the sane ones will wait until the entire picture is presented before passing their final judgement. You don't look at a single piece of a puzzle and think that is a stupid piece and throw it out because you don't like it. I didn't like it because it wasn't what I expected. However, I will wait until I see the finale to see how it fits in.

You hit the nail on the head with bigger picture and my analogy exemplifies that as well. With Raimi, we had one puzzle piece we didn't like. The sane ones wanted to see how the final picture would look and were willing to see how it would turn out but some people thought the entire puzzle should be thrown out because they didn't like one piece. That is lame.

 

[chaseter]

Perhaps he, empowered by the poor critical acclaim of SM3, grew some cocunuts and decided to Demand more control of SM4.. resulting in Sony "giving him his Walking Papers".

or

Perhaps, he again flexing his wants, wanted the Spider-Baby and marriage between Perter and MJ (Yawn), you know.. ALL about ONE Girl BS.. and Sony again.. Gave him "walking" papers.

Yes, because Sony pushing Vulturess into the story sounds so much better You want things to be more like the comics...Peter had a kid. Guess what else...Peter married MJ

 

[spider-neil]

I more or less agree with this. Was it all Raimi's fault? No, of course not. He was forced into an cruddy situation. He could have taken the high road, yes, but honestly, if any of us had the chance to direct a movie about our favorite character, would we risk losing it?

However, I will say this. Once Raimi realized he wasn't going to get his way, he should have swallowed his pride and incorporated Venom in a way that didn't hurt the movie. In short, he should have cut Sandman. We all know Raimi isn't a fan of Venom's character. But then I kept wondering "So? Why don't you just MAKE him into a character you like."

It's obvious Raimi doesn't have a problem changing things about villains. Ock and Sandman are proof of that. He should have cut Sandman, and used the time to develop Brock as more of a character, and that way, we could have at least gotten a Two-Face situation in TDK, where we have good buildup with Brock, and even thought he actual Venom time is reduced, it doesn't feel quite as bad because Brock was a fully realized character.

He could have even combined Sandmans backstory with Brock's quite easily (I would have cut the Uncle Ben thing though.)

So in that aspect, I do believe some of the blame lies with Raimi. But certainly not all of it.

sam's big mistake was when he accepted venom he tried to keep as much of the old script as possible, he should have thrown out the old scipt and dumped one of the characters and started from scratch.
sam made ridiculous choices, for example I will bet any money whatsoever vulture tell sandman to antagonize peter so the motivation for peter is simple, self defense and the motivation for sandman was vulture. with vulture replaced by venom you now have two characters that don't know each other so;

a) you have to introduce them (sandman/venom) - wasting screen time

b) with the suit peter has to have a motivation for being angry at sandman
- uncle ben's death retconned

the bottom line is sam should have refused the venom character full stop because sam doesn't understand the character. I get what sam was trying to say, there is no darkness in peter therefore his desires would come off as geeky rather than dark, which is lame lame lame.
the movie would have had far more depth if peter turned into a maniac, look at 'brothers' that what tobey could have brought to the table.

so in closing sam should have said no way to venom or walked. SM3 has tained raimi's entire career.

 

[TheSlag]

welcome to the hype slag.

Yes, the Hype where only a few facists have EVER complain that someone is "trolling" an "Opinion". It invokes memories of Bakerboy and his crew.

actually critical acclaim was mixed....

Not relative to the critical acclaim that the first two received.

 

[TheSlag]

Yes, because Sony pushing Vulturess into the story sounds so much better You want things to be more like the comics...Peter had a kid. Guess what else...Peter married MJ

So by that stupidity of an argument, EVERYTHING that was in the comics, stupid or not, is fair game to be in the movies.

Here comes Hypno Hustler and the Mercy Killers, Rocket Racer, Madame Webb, and the likes by that argument.

 

[chaseter]

So by that stupidity of an argument, EVERYTHING that was in the comics, stupid or not, is fair game to be in the movies.

Here comes Hypno Hustler and the Mercy Killers, Rocket Racer, Madame Webb, and the likes by that argument.

Bashing Raimi because you felt his movies needed to be more like the source material and then whining when it is more like the source material is stupidity.

Who makes you the dictator of the source material?

 

[Ajendo]

sam was basically working on his dream project. he was still high from knocking it out of the park with SM2. he should have said, drop venom or I walk. it really was way to late in the day for a script rewrite, linking two escape villians was easy dropping one of them to insert a character with a complex history was frigging INSANE and it showed. look at penny (sandman's daughter) who was basically reduced to one scene.

sam takes some of the blame for not being stronger but if I were in his shows I would have probably backed down as well, its spider-man for me there is no other project I'd rather work on, that would be it. sam should have called their (sony/avi) bluff because no way would they have sacked him. no chance.

That's debatable. Sony know full well that spider-man as a brand name is bigger than all the people who worked on the movies and look at where we are now. No raimi in sight. They were gonna get rid of maguire and replace him for sm2. Raimi's position wasn't as concrete as you think.

 

[spider-neil]

That's debatable. Sony know full well that spider-man as a brand name is bigger than all the people who worked on the movies and look at where we are now. No raimi in sight. They were gonna get rid of maguire and replace him for sm2. Raimi's position wasn't as concrete as you think.

sack raimi after SM2? no chance. that's like sacking nolan after TDK.

 

[chaseter]

And it would be just as stupid if WB came in and told Nolan how to make the third movie.

 

[spider-neil]

And it would be just as stupid if WB came in and told Nolan how to make the third movie.

exactly.

WB - c'mon chris, I know you have the mad hatter, poison ivy and harley quinn lined up for Batman 3 and I know you've already finished the script but the fans 'REALLY' want to see the riddler, it would only take a minute change to squeeze him in...

 

[TheSlag]

Bashing Raimi because you felt his movies needed to be more like the source material and then whining when it is more like the source material is stupidity.

Bashing??? What have you been smoking? I was simply answering your post on how Raimi could of had Sony "suggest" that he "walk".

Who makes you the dictator of the source material?

Just plain ole Good Taste. Something that is obviously lacking on your front.

 

[chaseter]

Plan ole good taste? Please tell me what your consensus was on SM2.

 

[Infinity9999x]

sam's big mistake was when he accepted venom he tried to keep as much of the old script as possible, he should have thrown out the old scipt and dumped one of the characters and started from scratch.
sam made ridiculous choices, for example I will bet any money whatsoever vulture tell sandman to antagonize peter so the motivation for peter is simple, self defense and the motivation for sandman was vulture. with vulture replaced by venom you now have two characters that don't know each other so;

a) you have to introduce them (sandman/venom) - wasting screen time

b) with the suit peter has to have a motivation for being angry at sandman
- uncle ben's death retconned

the bottom line is sam should have refused the venom character full stop because sam doesn't understand the character. I get what sam was trying to say, there is no darkness in peter therefore his desires would come off as geeky rather than dark, which is lame lame lame.
the movie would have had far more depth if peter turned into a maniac, look at 'brothers' that what tobey could have brought to the table.

so in closing sam should have said no way to venom or walked. SM3 has tained raimi's entire career.

I would have gone with dumping the script as well and starting over. However, I suggested swapping Sandman for Venom because of how easily Venom could assume Sandman's role. He still has the daughter, but now instead of being in jail, the guy has gambling debts that he has to pay and he can't afford to get her medical care. Make him a mix of the sympathetic Marco and the jerk-off Brock, so he's a character with more dimension. He doctors Pete's pics to get money for his daughter, Pete, under the influence of the suit, gets him fired. Now Brock can't get money for his kid, but instead of blaming himself (since his own gambling is the reason he didn't have the money to begin with) he focuses his rage on Pete.

Also, I see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't compare Raimi to Nolan after TDK. I mean, SM2 was very successful, but Nolan had literally just made the second highest grossing movie EVER. That's a little more clout then Raimi had.

And honestly, like I said, would any of us risk the chance of losing the chance to work on our favorite character? I know I wouldn't.

 

[spider-neil]

I would have gone with dumping the script as well and starting over. However, I suggested swapping Sandman for Venom because of how easily Venom could assume Sandman's role. He still has the daughter, but now instead of being in jail, the guy has gambling debts that he has to pay and he can't afford to get her medical care. Make him a mix of the sympathetic Marco and the jerk-off Brock, so he's a character with more dimension. He doctors Pete's pics to get money for his daughter, Pete, under the influence of the suit, gets him fired. Now Brock can't get money for his kid, but instead of blaming himself (since his own gambling is the reason he didn't have the money to begin with) he focuses his rage on Pete.

Also, I see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't compare Raimi to Nolan after TDK. I mean, SM2 was very successful, but Nolan had literally just made the second highest grossing movie EVER. That's a little more clout then Raimi had.

And honestly, like I said, would any of us risk the chance of losing the chance to work on our favorite character? I know I wouldn't.

sam's first two movies made more than nolan's first two movies so their positions were after the sequel were pretty much the same. the difference being WB are more hands off than sony (I've seen and read loads of examples where they've let people just get one with it, look at watchmen).

I definately wouldn't walk away from spidey, it would be my dream project. without being big headed if I made spidey the fans would love it because I would love it.

btw if you drop sandman and venom takes his place daughter and all, when spidey gets the black suit how would you motivate peter to attack for no reason? would you just say the suit makes peter a bad guy - the end - that's all the explaination the audience needs?

 

[TheSlag]

How about a serious approach like Harry threatening MJ (or dare I dream.. Killing MJ) to get at Peter for "taking his father"? With the Symbiote Driving Perter for Revenge.

And I don't mean threatening MJ like GG did in SM1, I mean really threatening/terrorizing MJ at least, like I said sans my dream, which WE KNEW SAM & CO did NOT have the BALLS to pull off.

Pity

 

[spider-neil]

How about a serious approach like Harry threatening MJ (or dare I dream.. Killing MJ)

that would have been excellent. real motivation for the black suit to currupt peter. in peter's rage he kill's harry (accidently) in his grief he goes to the bell tower, loses the black suit, EBJ gets the black suit - roll credits.

plenty of time for harry who dies in the third movie

plenty of time for MJ who dies in the third movie

plenty of time for EBJ ready for the full venom in SM4

plenty of time for peter with none of the dancing bull****

a much better movie with only the sandman losses out. oppertunity missed.

this would also mirror TDK

rachael - MJ
harvey - harry
joker survives ready for future movies - venom survives ready for future movies

 

[Rumpy Bulge Dubz]

oh definitley, X3 and Spidey 3 were both prime examples of "dropping the ball".

seriously, how do you mess up the "Symbiote" and "Phoenix" saga's. They're just too epic and the material is RIGHT THERE, just transfer it to live action.

 

[spider-neil]

also GG2 throwing MJ off a bridge with have been perfect, basically doing what his father intended but didn't manage. they went for laughs when it could have been so much more.

 

[chaseter]

I think they shot for the kiddie audience.

 

[spider-neil]

I think they shot for the kiddie audience.

to be fair they hit pay dirt going for that demographic

 

[Dark Knight]

Sony/Marvel hiring the hack Sargent again proves they have some issues over there....

 

[©KAW]

Going for the kiddie demo-graphic is a silent killer to the creativity and quality of any comic book film. This should be branded on the face of every comic book director, so that when he looks in the mirror, he's reminded of what NOT to do.

 

[Rodrigo90]

IMO,its the directors fault. Sam was a hardcore fan,and that was his biggest mistake...He suffered from from vanity,wanting to do his own interp and screw to everything else. Some directors dont care,and some do. I get more worried when a fan is the director,cause he wants to do his OWN interp and story. James Cameron was the same. You need an understanding director,who respects the material,but most importantly...respects Roger Ebert and the fans.