Skyfall vs. TDKR

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by Batmansvoice, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Tequilla

    Tequilla Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen Marceau "gems" like Je reste , Note Bleue , Karenina , Á ce soir , Amour braque , the musketeers one , etc ? She has always been a pretty face . Cardboard acting defines her career. Marion has a body of work that speaks for itself , and his a testament for her qualities. They are not from the same league. The only similarity between them , it's that they are both stunning women.

    Yes her death scene is not very good. I give the director a lot of responsibilities in that too. But like always , internet tends to put popular stuff a little out of proportion . Her perfomance in the movie is quite nice , in a role with limited screentime .
     
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  2. Frodo

    Frodo Well-Known Member

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    Well you can disagree with my view, but just because you disagree or don't like it, doesn't make my argument simple. As far as performances go , I wasn't dismissing either one. I just found Bardem's to be more compelling, entertaining. Again, like it or not , that's how I personally felt.

    As far as comparing characters , both characters are pretty thin as far as motivation goes , though Bane is reduced to a love sick puppy who in the end , is motivated to do what he does for Talia. Silva's motivation is also slight in comparison to some other Bond villans, but I found creepy demented character was far more entertaining than Bane.
     
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  3. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    I feel like most of these arguments come down to, "Bane is a 'love sick puppy' because he is equal accomplice with a woman while Silva is more manly and alone!"

    Because Silva is doing this all for the attention of a woman he considers his mother and left him for dead. But because Bane does not have a woman around him who he both listens to and does things his own way around, he is weaker in the eyes of the mostly-male fan community. Just saying.
     
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  4. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    Begins came out before there was Youtube. But I can ensure we were all making fun of the voice back then.
     
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  5. Spoonman

    Spoonman Well-Known Member

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    Saying that the Bane/Talia relationship was nothing like Renard/Elektra's is quite hyperbolic, it's very much alike. And I am not super versed in the comics world but still, putting very much the same plot device (the relationship between the hecnchman with the true femme fatale mastermind, the nuclear device, destroying a city) is not more valid because it was scatered in some comicbooks when a major motion picture (TWINE) already used it, if the comics world is so vast then Nolan could've used a slightly different storyline lifted from them; that is why I am not inclined to belive that Nolan lifted that from the comics you mention, he is openly more of a Bond fan than a Comic book reader.
     
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  6. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    I actually like TWINE. Beyond the woeful miscasting of Ms. Richards and the inaneness of the ski scene, I think it works quite well.

    Anyway, I do see the similarities. Just as I see TDK features the villain killing people (in Skyfall's case MI6 agents) every set day/week until the hero meets his demands. It also features the villain being intentionally captured so he can later escape. It even features the hero getting some reliable advice from an old childhood servant who knows his most personal, darkest secrets.

    But I do not know why people are upset. QOS borrowed from Bourne. CR borrowed from Batman Begins. TND borrowed from John Woo. It goes all the way back to LALD borrowing from Shaft. It is part of the Bond tradition on film.
     
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  7. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    Yup, the cross pollination between these types of franchises is nothing new. It's all about trying to keep up with audience expectations.
     
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  8. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    These sound good to me regarding that point;

    YouTube was not always the primary outlet for parody videos back in 2005. We had them long before YouTube came along. As Fudgie so correctly pointed out there was ample time between 2005-2008 for parodies of the Begins Bale voice to be made if was such a huge subject to mockery as you say. Parodies were very much around back then; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVrIyEu6h_E

    As also pointed out, infamous CollegeHumor has been making them since 1999. Can you find any about Batman Begins Batman voice on their website? http://www.collegehumor.com/videos

    Let me know if you can. They've got all their videos on there going back to 1999.

    I can assure you we were not. Any knocks against the voice were few and far between. I challenge you to provide any links, verbal or video, that showed some kind of backlash against the Begins voice. They should be easy to find if it was being done as much as some of you claim.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  9. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    Sigh.

    Yes, there was ebaums world and there was whatever else. But the whole internet meme culture of parodying movies like we have seen since 2008 or so did not exist back then. There was SNL, MTV, and other such parodies (which btw the latter of which did parody BB) but the meme culture we have now did not exist.

    The best I can do is say search this board for 2005 threads complaining about the voice (yes, they existed) or check out the many, many reviews from the movie's initial release that would either criticize or bemusedly mock the voice.

    Not that it matters. It did not bother me in 2005. I do not see why people bother still recycling this complaint seven years later.
     
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  10. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    As for a link, here you go:

    http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=244367&highlight=bale+voice

    In 2005, after Schumaucher and an eight year absence, people were starting to grumble about the voice. But as you can see in the thread, fanboys are like, "I liked the movie and Bale is great...but the voice seemed....forced. STILL GREAT!"

    By 2008 it's, "The movie rocked, too bad Bale's voice is silly."

    In 2012, fanboys realize the series is over and there is a new shiny toy around the corner and it becomes, "That voice sucked! And so did the movie! GRRRR!"

    It is just the way this cycle works.
     
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  11. spidermanJLA!~

    spidermanJLA!~ SUPERHERO

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    Youtube was created in 2005?!!!:wow::doh:
     
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  12. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Not the best attitude to start with.

    Yeah, I concede it wasn't as full on as it was several years later, but it was still very much around. Movies got spoofed and mocked. There is not ONE video in existence from 2005 to TDK's release that mocks Bale's Batman voice in Begins. Not a single one.

    I have searched through the boards. Do you think I would make such a claim without having done my research? I told you above the complaints about the voice were few and far between.

    Did you read through that thread before you posted it? Here's the bulk of the responses that actually mention the voice or don't feel any changes were necessary to the character at all;

    The rest of the thread is people talking about detective skills, the one liners, the romance sub plot, Miller's version of Batman, and other non voice related stuff. Compare the number of people who complain about the voice to the ones who do not. Vast minority.

    Again read the thread and see the numbers in that thread. Those actually discussing the voice, the majority loved it. The detractors were a drop in the ocean.

    There was no noticeable backlash against the voice.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  13. Omegabat

    Omegabat Well-Known Member

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    That story I mentioned is the second and last major story with Bane as the villain,after that he became an anti-hero.It was the only story where he interacted with the Al Ghuls.The comics may be vast but Bane is'nt.

    Either way they existed before TWINE,and that's good enough for me especially since Bane's relationship with Talia mirrors his relationship with Scandal Savage over Renard/Elektra.
     
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  14. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    It seems increasingly common to single out Christopher Nolan when discussing the script for this movie, but a lot seem to forget that the other two guys in the writing trio: Goyer and Jonathan Nolan, are well-versed in the Batman world, and all three of them referenced the comics when doing research for each movie. Countless interviews confirm this.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  15. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    Quoted for truth.

    But I think Silva going nuts after being betrayed and left by someone he trusted was better than Bane just doing it so Miss Talia can finish her pappy's work.

    Not catching much moaning about the voice in there. Hardly any. Like 3 out of 20+ happy campers.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  16. TheBat812

    TheBat812 Well-Known Member

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    I felt like the similarities came from what they like in classic action films and their more british sensitibilities in that way. Still, Skyfall was the strongest Bond film cinematically and thematically, and for that it deserves major props. I still enjoy CR more though, haha.
     
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  17. Tequilla

    Tequilla Well-Known Member

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    I remember some parodies with Bat voice in Begins , one specifically by Conan on his Late Night Show. But yeah , its was nowhere near the same for TDK , because that movie was hugely popular , something that Begins wasnt. The exposure was on a completely different scale , and the internet was also a different place.
     
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  18. AnneFan

    AnneFan Hathaway #1

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    You can definitely understand why Silva thinks the way he does. In his mind all the stuff he does is justified. Bardem's statement of "who says a villain is necessarily a bad person?" held true IMO.

    Both movies are good, but at the end of the day, one features Anne Hathaway and the other one doesn't. :cwink:
     
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  19. Brain Damage

    Brain Damage Everything Under the Sun

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    You're definitely right, Chris is getting singled out quite a lot for the script, and it's not fair. I feel like a big problem was that all three of them tried to get everything they wanted in there and didn't compromise enough. It's common knowledge that Jonathan was the one who pushed for Selina to be put in, so I imagine situations like that led to the bloated feel of the story.

    Were those rumors about the first draft being 500 pages every confirmed?
     
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  20. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    Can't find anything about that. But I found this; http://www.shockya.com/news/2012/01...fun-of-banes-dialog-in-the-dark-knight-rises/

    Keep hearing that but I can still find lots of movie parodies from back then.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG2kiKRDDPs

    Strange huh.

    Yup loved that. He was a way better villain than Bane was for moi.

    Heh can't deny she was aces.
     
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  21. Tequilla

    Tequilla Well-Known Member

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    I also think Skyfall deserves major props for trying to be a little more than 2 non-sense hours , yet being able to check a lot of the formula from the past , but as i was rewatching the movie yesterday i couldn't help but feel i would prefer to see 9-10 other Bonds than this one. Even Deakins work , outside of those beautiful color compositions , most setups are conservative as hell.
     
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  22. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    It was Chris himself that said the first draft Jonathan handed him was about 400 pages. I mean he could have been exaggerating, but nevertheless:
    http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/christopher-nolan-talks-the-politics-of-the-dark-knight-rises-and-more-from-the-films-press-tour-20120724
     
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  23. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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    I love that interview. So funny that Christopher Nolan only thought he had read Tale of Two Cities.
     
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  24. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    There are also no videos from 2005 I can find mocking "I have the high ground" or "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," but I know fans mocked that when it came out. Even more as time passed. The meme culture isn't around.

    And I am not going to dissect-a-post comments from that thread, but it seemed to me to be a 70/30 split of those who liked the voice vs. those who disliked it. It was the first Nolan movie, it was fresh, it was new, it was the first thing since Batman & Robin 8 years prior. Fans drank it up like milk. But there was criticism. And that is how it always begins:

    First movie: It is perfect...I even love that one little thing some people are complaining about.

    Second movie: It is perfect....but that thing that I didn't care about the first time, did kind of bug me.

    Third movie: That sucked! And what is with that <insert trilogy long complaint>?!?! It used to be fine but it got so much worse!!!!! :eek:

    I don't even know why you're making a big deal out of this. Bale had the same over-the-top vocal inflections and raspiness in BB ("SWEAR TO ME!!!"/"DO I LOOK LIKE A COP?!?!"/"WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR?!?!"/ALFRED, I'VE BEEN POISONED!"/"I BROUGHT MINE!"/"I CAN BEAT TWO OF YOUR PAWNS!"/IT'S NOT WHO I AM UNDERNEATH.../"RACHEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!").

    Yes, he turned it down in a few scenes with Gordon and Rachel, but it was always there for most of the movie he's in costume. It's just in 2005 it was a novelty and not a pop culture phenomenon like it was in 2008 and 2012. It was also before the Internet meme culture. But people were snickering at in 2005 like in 2012. The difference? Fans in 2005 were just happy to have a serious Batman movie. Fans in 2012 are tired of Nolan because the shininess has worn off and they cannot wait for the new toy.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  25. ShadowBoxer

    ShadowBoxer Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I enjoyed Skyfall and Avengers wayy more than I did Dark Knight Rises. I was truly expecting to be blown away in awe with Dark Knight Rises like I was with Begins and Dark Knight, but in the end I was just like "meh it was good but not great".
     
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