Star Trek Sequel - Part 1

[Thundercrack85]

I notice more and more plot holes. Or at least... illogical moments (the Enterprise being built in Iowa for no discernible reason, the odd Vulcan moon / planet, etc). But it remains an enjoyable movie.

 

[raybia]

I also agree about the repeated viewings. I've seen it so many times now it's almost unhealthy.

And I've been a fan since the 80s and they used to repeat episodes of the orginal series at midnight.

Wow! I forgot about that. I too watched the repeat episodes at midnight. I can and have watched the original episodes over and over. The more I think about it, its almost a prerequisite of a ST movie that it can be watched repeatedly.

I wonder if this came up in conversations came up between JJ and Co. and this was an intentional goal?

 

[raybia]

I notice more and more plot holes. Or at least... illogical moments (the Enterprise being built in Iowa for no discernible reason, the odd Vulcan moon / planet, etc). But it remains an enjoyable movie.

Me too but that whole movie was so enjoyable that it really overrides the flaws.

 

[danoyse]

Wow! I forgot about that. I too watched the repeat episodes at midnight. I can and have watched the original episodes over and over. The more I think about it, its almost a prerequisite of a ST movie that it can be watched repeatedly.

I wonder if this came up in conversations came up between JJ and Co. and this was an intentional goal?

On one the extras for the first movie Damon Lindelof said that's how he got into ST - he's from NJ like me, and channel 11 ran the old episodes at midnight for years. (that and reruns of The Honeymooners at 11:30)

My dad got me a ST episode guide when I got into watching them, and I used to check them off because I had no idea what order the episodes were in and if I had seen them all.

Of course now I have them all on blu-ray and it's much easier.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well a lot of them could have been easily avoided. Maybe they need better writers. Can't complain too much though. It was written by Orci and Kurtzman (of Revenge of the Fallen fame) and was actually decent. Must have been an off day for them.

 

[FreeRadical]

I notice more and more plot holes. Or at least... illogical moments (the Enterprise being built in Iowa for no discernible reason, the odd Vulcan moon / planet, etc). But it remains an enjoyable movie.

Yeah, there were a lot of plotholes, especially all the coincidences occurring such as Kirk meeting Spock in the ice cave, and they ended up meeting Scotty. The biggest problem I had with the film was the drill. How can Vulcan and Earth not be able to destroy the drill from the ground? Spock destroyed it with a few shots from the Jellyfish ship, why not from the planet? Even with today's technology, e.g missiles, we could do it. I know there was a writer's strike at the time, but come on.

I still love the film though.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Yeah, there were a lot of plotholes, especially all the coincidences occurring such as Kirk meeting Spock in the ice cave, and they ended up meeting Scotty. The biggest problem I had with the film was the drill. How can Vulcan and Earth not be able to destroy the drill from the ground? Spock destroyed it with a few shots from the Jellyfish ship, why not from the planet? Even with today's technology, e.g missiles, we could do it. I know there was a writer's strike at the time, but come on.

I still love the film though.

Well now, they do sort of cover their asses on that one. Nero gets the Earth defense codes from Pike. However... that still doesn't explain why Vulcan... which has been shown in the past to be very powerful, has zero defenses.

 

[FreeRadical]

Well now, they do sort of cover their asses on that one. Nero gets the Earth defense codes from Pike. However... that still doesn't explain why Vulcan... which has been shown in the past to be very powerful, has zero defenses.

That's true about Vulcan, it was weird. Speaking of Earth, a small shuttlecraft (non-Federation issue) could have just shot a few phasers/photon topedoes at the column and there, no more drill.

If the filmmakers showed the Narada destroying the Vulcan and Earth's defence installations on both planets, since the Narada's missiles are advanced, it would have made more sence. But they made it look like the Narada just got the Earth defence codes, walked past spacedock and start drilling the planet. The end of the film didn't mention any Starfleet vessels/units on or around Earth being destroyed ....

 

[Hush]

That's true about Vulcan, it was weird. Speaking of Earth, a small shuttlecraft (non-Federation issue) could have just shot a few phasers/photon topedoes at the column and there, no more drill.

If the filmmakers showed the Narada destroying the Vulcan and Earth's defence installations on both planets, since the Narada's missiles are advanced, it would have made more sence. But they made it look like the Narada just got the Earth defence codes, walked past spacedock and start drilling the planet. The end of the film didn't mention any Starfleet vessels/units on or around Earth being destroyed ....

Well hadn't the Narada already obliterated most of the actual fleet at that point? That's how Pike gets captured. So really Earth was defenseless insome regards. That coupled with Nero knowing the codes prolly handcuffed Starfleet.

 

[Thundercrack85]

That's true about Vulcan, it was weird. Speaking of Earth, a small shuttlecraft (non-Federation issue) could have just shot a few phasers/photon topedoes at the column and there, no more drill.

If the filmmakers showed the Narada destroying the Vulcan and Earth's defence installations on both planets, since the Narada's missiles are advanced, it would have made more sence. But they made it look like the Narada just got the Earth defence codes, walked past spacedock and start drilling the planet. The end of the film didn't mention any Starfleet vessels/units on or around Earth being destroyed ....

Yes, even if Nero did shut down Earth's defenses (I assume those are automated?), Earth would obviously be on high alert... with the attack on Vulcan. They knew something was up. So, you would think they'd have some terrestrial forces on standby.

I'd say it might have been budget constraints, but it's probably just lazy writing.

Chalk it up to that and Star Trek tradition. Earth is always poorly defended.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Chalk it up to that and Star Trek tradition. Earth is always poorly defended.

What ever could you possibly mean? Don't you remember The Borg having to contend with the awesome "Mars Defense Perimeter" when they first tried to invade Earth?

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

Yeah, there were a lot of plotholes, especially all the coincidences occurring such as Kirk meeting Spock in the ice cave, and they ended up meeting Scotty. The biggest problem I had with the film was the drill. How can Vulcan and Earth not be able to destroy the drill from the ground? Spock destroyed it with a few shots from the Jellyfish ship, why not from the planet? Even with today's technology, e.g missiles, we could do it. I know there was a writer's strike at the time, but come on.

I still love the film though.

This is the kind of thing I meant in my previous post. The film as a whole is good. But there are so many contivances and plot holes that it is now that much more difficult for me to sit through a viewing without coming away with a headache from all the face palming I end up doing.

How about that it only seems to take about 7.7 minutes to get from Earth to Vulcan these days...

I have minor gripes about the characters but nothing too troublesome to me.

Hopefully, there will be less of this in the sequel, and I think this for two reasons.
1) All the characters are together now, so no need for flimsy reasons to meet up.
2) There is not a writers strike on and so changes can be made to the script on set. Which often happens during filming.

They have no excuses...

 

[chamber-music]

Sequel will be solid.

 

[Thundercrack85]

How about that it only seems to take about 7.7 minutes to get from Earth to Vulcan these days...

Thank you, I've been going on about that since the movie came out, and everyone just shrugged.

Or how about when Spock took a turbolift straight up to the bridge from the aft of the ship... Which is impossible. Note that in the past movies, the lift takes much longer, and noticeably switches shafts (since it has to move through the ship).

 

[Airwings]

I think he means rival in popularity. There's always been a thought that only nerds and geeks can enjoy Star Trek. Where as everyone enjoyed Star Wars. But the latest film finally changed that perception.

Exactly. Now Star Trek not only rivals SW in how many geek fans the franchises have, bot also cinema-wise. Star Trek is now something to count on commercially. I don't think any previous film did get that kind of hype (but I am too young to remember the older films of 70s/80s).
Doesn't matter if Trek didn't come up to SW numbers, it's still a solid blockbuster film, something people talk about.
And there isn't much chance for another new trilogy from Lucas, but Abrams & co will come out with a bunch of sequels. The next one hitting big will be no doubt.

We have to wait and see if the 3D versions of ep 1-3 will get somewhere.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

Thank you, I've been going on about that since the movie came out, and everyone just shrugged.

Or how about when Spock took a turbolift straight up to the bridge from the aft of the ship... Which is impossible. Note that in the past movies, the lift takes much longer, and noticeably switches shafts (since it has to move through the ship).

Couldn't agree more with this.

You know, I actually did some research about their trip to Vulcan (yes, I know) simply because I really enjoy the technical aspects of Star Trek.
I took a line from Scotty at the end of ST:TMP where he says "We can have you back on Vulcan in 4 days"
Further research revealed that Vulcan is in orbit of `40 Eridani A` a star about 16 light years away.

So to get there in 4 days you need to travel at Warp 11.3 or thereabouts, using the original Warp speed scale. Pretty fast...

In Star Trek 2009 I don't believe I heard any speed greater than Warp 3 or 4 mentioned. Yet they seemed to get to the same place in almost no time at all.

I realise this is a minor gripe but one of the things which Star Trek is, rather was, known for, is its technical consistency over the years.

Oh well.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Well hadn't the Narada already obliterated most of the actual fleet at that point? That's how Pike gets captured. So really Earth was defenseless insome regards. That coupled with Nero knowing the codes prolly handcuffed Starfleet.

Not only that but the main fleet was docked somewere far away from Earth, Spock was intending to meet up with them remember, so Earth wouldnt have had a single star-ship in its vacinity.

This is the kind of thing I meant in my previous post. The film as a whole is good. But there are so many contivances and plot holes that it is now that much more difficult for me to sit through a viewing without coming away with a headache from all the face palming I end up doing.

How about that it only seems to take about 7.7 minutes to get from Earth to Vulcan these days...

I have minor gripes about the characters but nothing too troublesome to me.

Hopefully, there will be less of this in the sequel, and I think this for two reasons.
1) All the characters are together now, so no need for flimsy reasons to meet up.
2) There is not a writers strike on and so changes can be made to the script on set. Which often happens during filming.

They have no excuses...

It took that in the film, but time obviously elapsed off screen, Kirk was obviously out for a while after he was given that shot from Bones and passed out.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

Not only that but the main fleet was docked somewere far away from Earth, Spock was intending to meet up with them remember, so Earth wouldnt have had a single star-ship in its vacinity.



It took that in the film, but time obviously elapsed off screen, Kirk was obviously out for a while after he was given that shot from Bones and passed out.

Yep, I realise that. But the impression I got (and I believe it to be reasonable, if not accurate) was that off screen elapsed time was on the order of hours rather than (at least) the couple of days it should have taken for the ship to get to Vulcan.

These kinds of thing take me out of the movie experience because it seems to be as if the writers don't care enough to have a semblance of reality to things like transit time.
I know we are talking about Science Fiction here, but if you do not treat things like the time it takes to travel 16 Light Years in a realistic fashion that correlates to previously established in-universe facts, then to my mind we venture into Science Fantasy, where anything can be changed to suit the story and gets no rational explanation to back it up.

Star Trek has always been more Science Fiction than Science Fantasy.

When I want Science Fantasy, I'll pop my Star Wars Blu-Rays on the telly.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yep, I realise that. But the impression I got (and I believe it to be reasonable, if not accurate) was that off screen elapsed time was on the order of hours rather than (at least) the couple of days it should have taken for the ship to get to Vulcan.

These kinds of thing take me out of the movie experience because it seems to be as if the writers don't care enough to have a semblance of reality to things like transit time.
I know we are talking about Science Fiction here, but if you do not treat things like the time it takes to travel 16 Light Years in a realistic fashion that correlates to previously established in-universe facts, then to my mind we venture into Science Fantasy, where anything can be changed to suit the story and gets no rational explanation to back it up.

Star Trek has always been more Science Fiction than Science Fantasy.

When I want Science Fantasy, I'll pop my Star Wars Blu-Rays on the telly.

It could have hours, it could have been days, there is no way to tell as they all wear the same clothes, etc, so who knows?

I've never been a big fan of Trek in all honesty, First Contact and this are the only 2 Trek movies I ever really liked, so it didnt bother me too much.

 

[Young Superman]

When do you think we will finally find out who the villain(s) is in this film?

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

It could have hours, it could have been days, there is no way to tell as they all wear the same clothes, etc, so who knows?

I've never been a big fan of Trek in all honesty, First Contact and this are the only 2 Trek movies I ever really liked, so it didnt bother me too much.

Fair enough.

But just so you know where I'm coming from, I believe it could only have been a few hours as Bones would not be so irresponsible to give Kirk a sedative which would keep him out for a couple of days or longer.
Also, would Vulcan leave its planet defenceless for days without having some ships available to it in that time-frame?

It's just sloppy writing or plotting or both and I really hope we get better in the sequel.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

When do you think we will finally find out who the villain(s) is in this film?

J.J. Abrams is very secretive about his projects, I believe it will be months before any news like this gets out.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Fair enough.

But just so you know where I'm coming from, I believe it could only have been a few hours as Bones would not be so irresponsible to give Kirk a sedative which would keep him out for a couple of days or longer.
Also, would Vulcan leave its planet defenceless for days without having some ships available to it in that time-frame?

It's just sloppy writing or plotting or both and I really hope we get better in the sequel.

Again, the Vulcan being left defenseless issue isnt for me as i'm not a Trek fan, I didnt even know the Vulcan's had weapons or ships with weapons on, etc. I know of ST and know some details but am by no means an expert or even remotely knowledgeable.

As for Bones and Kirk, remember this is a younger Bones and he sneaked Kirk onto the ship against the wishes and orders of his superiors, it would maken sense to keep Kirk out of trouble by sedating him for a few days.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I notice more and more plot holes. Or at least... illogical moments (the Enterprise being built in Iowa for no discernible reason, the odd Vulcan moon / planet, etc). But it remains an enjoyable movie.

I noticed them in the first viewing. I actually thought this movie was going to FIX the flaws in the Star Trek franchise instead they made everything even more ridiculous.

Cannot stand the reboot.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Couldn't agree more with this.

You know, I actually did some research about their trip to Vulcan (yes, I know) simply because I really enjoy the technical aspects of Star Trek.
I took a line from Scotty at the end of ST:TMP where he says "We can have you back on Vulcan in 4 days"
Further research revealed that Vulcan is in orbit of `40 Eridani A` a star about 16 light years away.

So to get there in 4 days you need to travel at Warp 11.3 or thereabouts, using the original Warp speed scale. Pretty fast...

In Star Trek 2009 I don't believe I heard any speed greater than Warp 3 or 4 mentioned. Yet they seemed to get to the same place in almost no time at all.

I realise this is a minor gripe but one of the things which Star Trek is, rather was, known for, is its technical consistency over the years.

Oh well.

They're moving at the speed of plot. Though I can understand why they did that. After all, if it took them four days to respond, it would hurt the pacing.

Not only that but the main fleet was docked somewere far away from Earth, Spock was intending to meet up with them remember, so Earth wouldnt have had a single star-ship in its vacinity.

We're supposed to believe that an interstellar federation only has six ships defending its capital? In a universe full of warmongering aliens? Well hey, at least they had a couple, Vulcan had none.

They had this same problem in Generations. Where a new (undermanned, unarmed) Enterprise was sent to respond to a distress call because they were the only ship in range. Even though they were still sitting in the Solar System, minutes away from the Federation's capital.

Again, the Vulcan being left defenseless issue isnt for me as i'm not a Trek fan, I didnt even know the Vulcan's had weapons or ships with weapons on, etc. I know of ST and know some details but am by no means an expert or even remotely knowledgeable.

In Enterprise (the show) the Vulcans are shown to be the most powerful military force in the contemporary universe. They also waged war with many interstellar civilizations, making it rather strange they have no planetary defenses. Oddly enough, they even make a reference to the show in the movie.