TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by Thread Manager, Oct 24, 2012.

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  1. CConn

    CConn Fountainhead of culture.

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    Honestly, the LOS' motives in BB was utter ********. It made absolutely no rational sense. There is no such thing as a "moderate" terrorist organization. They're called extremists for a reason.

    I always just figured Ra's was ********ting Bruce to convince him to go along with the LOS' plans. Which is something he did like constantly in the entire movie.
     
    #76
  2. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but frankly, BB was the least realistic of the trilogy.

    Ninja terrorists that live in the mountains & use "microwave emitters" to vaporize hallucinogenic flowers through the city's water supply...

    Its very over the top, comic-booky writing.

    With TDK & TDKR Nolan enters the real world.

    TDK was a film about post-9/11 paranoia.

    TDKR was a film about terrorists taking a major US City through a nuclear weapon.

    BB would never happen. TDK already happened & TDKR could happen.
     
    #77
  3. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    I agree CConn. I always felt like Ra's was trying to exploit Bruce's hatred of criminals and used that as a means to focus his training and indoctrination. No matter how you try to rationalize it, it's still terrorism and Ra's still wanted to poison EVERYONE in Gotham, not just the criminals. How does that not make Ra's worse than those criminals? See, he believes in what he's doing and he's convinced it's going to make the world a better place. That doesn't mean it's logical.

    Where Bane and Talia went more extreme was how slowly they dragged out their plan and took over the city entirely. Simply destroying it wasn't enough for them. They wanted to actually punish Gotham and let the world watch helplessly.
     
    #78
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  4. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    Alfred was right all along. Bane was too extreme for Ra's Al Ghul.
     
    #79
  5. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    Ehhh no. City or civilization gets out of hand, they restore the balance to it. Makes sense.

    City is crime free and happy, you destroy it. Makes no sense. That's the utter BS.

    Conjecture.

    Ehhh no the only thing he kept from him was his dual identity as Ra's.
     
    #80
  6. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    Keep trying to make sense out of Al-Qaeda. Out of why they destroy things.
     
    #81
  7. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Some people don't get it or just refuse to get it. Or some just want to nit pick about alleged "plot holes" which were more like plot omissions from Nolan and Smith.

    Sometimes I do think WB's and Nolan should have gone the two part film Harry Potter route for TDKR though, just so some nit pickers could have seen every little detail squeezed in the final film of the trilogy.

    Me thinks, the nit pickers still wouldn't have been satisfied though.
     
    #82
  8. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Have you read the novelization yet for TDKR?

    It's a good read.
     
    #83
  9. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    About time one of you finally admitted that. Reading this, Batlobster? You were always against that one.

    I understand it fine mon ami. I've been saying this stuff forever against those who kept going on that Bane and Talia were following LOS ideals.

    You know basing them on real life terrorist idiots who make no sense doesn't mean they're good villains and their plan is good. Especially when you had Ra's and Joker with good plans that made sense.

    Ra's wanted to restore balance to dirty cities like Gotham. Makes sense. Joker wanted to prove Gotham can pushed into being crazy like him. Makes sense.

    Killing crime free city. Makes no sense.
     
    #84
  10. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    You say they're about ending crime. They're a group of assassins right? Why not just take out all the mobs with in series of well planned assassinations? Total ninja style. It would scare the living crap out of whoever's left more than Batman ever could. And if the mobs rebuilt themselves, do it again.

    That would make a lot more sense than murdering the entire civilian population of Gotham, if we're to accept the premise that the LOS are really a bunch of reasonable dudes who just want crime to stop.

    Wait a minute. I still believe that Ra's and Talia/Bane shared the same set of basic ideals- that of the League of Shadows. So in that sense they are taking the torch from Ra's. I agree that their methods are more extreme, and therefore can't technically be said to be fulfilling Ra's destiny. Plus, Ra's would have never wanted to see Bane and his daughter working together, so it defies him in that sense too. But they absolutely feel that they're honoring Ra's. The truth is more gray. In some ways they are, in some ways they aren't.
     
    #85
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  11. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    Me thinks, the apologists would be happy if Batman had a sex change at the end of the movie and defended the idea.
     
    #86
  12. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Ahh I see. You just didn't want to see the LOS brought back in TDKR. That is your issue.

    You would have rather seen some story with Riddler in it? Blah.

    The TDKR tied things up nicely from the previous films and made it into a true Trilogy.
     
    #87
  13. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    Because they think the corruption is spread so badly that they were able to infiltrate every level of the city's infrastructure because of it. They think it's beyond saving. They think the only way it can be truly stopped is to kill them. It's crazy but you can see why it makes sense to them.
     
    #88
  14. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Me thinks you are absolutely right. Wow.....:doh:
     
    #89
  15. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    The truth is more compelling than fiction. This series took a strong turn towards realism with TDK.

    Making the villains shadows of Al-Qaeda makes for a more plausible & captivating picture. You're not just watching a comic book movie. You're watching Batman in the real world, confronting real threats.

    You dislike it because its real, but that was the whole point.
     
    #90
  16. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    This is a comic book movie.

    Not that it turned the villains into dullards with stupid schemes. Joker was a terrorist but he was still comic book Joker and his terrorism was based on the Killing Joke graphic novel idea about pushing people to their extremes and making them go bad like him.

    Making villains like boring real world terrorists removes the captivating fantasy that you want from a comic book movie. If I want to watch terrorists doing stupid things for no reasons except bloodshed then I'll look at the news.

    I go to the movies, especially comic book movies for escapism.

    I dislike it because it's boring and uninteresting.

    It's because of this you can bet your bottom dollar this movie won't be getting any best picture nominations let alone any wins.
     
    #91
  17. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    I know I am. This thread is the proof.
     
    #92
  18. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    That still doesn't quite hold up to scrutiny though. The city is corrupt because many officials are on the mob's payroll. Eliminate the mob (and maybe a few corrupt judges and cops too, to scare people) and that problem is gone and theoretically the city could go back to rebuilding itself. The leap from wanting crime gone to destroying an entire city is massive and begs the question of what the deeper ideals of the LOS are all about. Which they talk about in Batman Begins. You don't burn the world's greatest city to the ground because you want to stop crime, you do it because you want to hit the reset button on civilization. Which is also why one would try to economically attack a city (like they did prior to BB).

    BTW that idea about Batman getting a sex change is BRILLIANT. Holy crap, I actually dislike the movie more now that I see what a ballsy and provocative ending Nolan missed out on!
    :awesome:
     
    #93
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  19. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    $447 Million Domestic says the themes presented in this movie weren't boring and uninteresting to the American public.

    Also, ARGO, a film about Jimmy Carter's lack of resolve during his presidency and the hostage situation in Tehran is being groomed for Best Picture & Best Director, so I don't see why you would think TDKR's geopolitical allusions are detrimental to its Oscar race.

    If anything, its said real themes that will further elevate this film from average CBM in the eyes of the A.M.P.A.S.
     
    #94
  20. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    THIS.

    ALL of this.
     
    #95
  21. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    The point is the city is full of rotten people willing to take bribes and do dirty work for the mob.

    You and I know the solution to a problem like that isn't to kill everyone, but to a crazy mind you can see why they would think extremist methods like that are necessary. It makes sense.

    They think the only way to get rid of that crime is to hit the reset button on Gotham because they think the crime and despair and corruption is too deeply rooted in Gotham to just be excised like a rotten tooth.

    Please. If Bay's Transformers can make over a billion, then so can this load of hokey schlock.

    That's probably because that was better handled, more interesting, and not riddled with plot holes.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/jul/25/dark-knight-rises-oscars-judges
     
    #96
  22. Fudgie

    Fudgie Well-Known Member

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    THIS.

    ALL of this.
     
    #97
  23. Joeyjojo72

    Joeyjojo72 Well-Known Member

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    TDKR should be nominated for the technical awards. Catwoman has a slight chance of a nom, but she'll probably get that for Les Mis.

    Actual wins are probably not in the cards, given the competition.

    And I have to lol at the notion that the NolanBat movies are "realistic". Or that Nolan is in general a "realistic", verite-style director. He isnt.
     
    #98
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  24. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    Okay good. We agree on this point then. You're saying what I've been saying all along, that the LOS condemns the moral character of Gotham as a whole. Which by extension is a condemnation of greed and weakness.

    So my question is, these same radical extremists stopped believing that Gotham is a place where evil and greed lurk JUST because the mayor passed a law that made it easier for them to lock up the mob? The end result is essentially the same if they had taken it upon themselves to take out the mob. It would have just been a band-aid. Just like the Dent Act is.
     
    #99
  25. CConn

    CConn Fountainhead of culture.

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    So you're saying 9/11 was utter BS?
    All he did the entire movie was manipulate Bruce to do what he wanted. It was painfully obvious.
     
    #100
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