All good points, and good job on bringing up the auto-pilot being fixed. When I first saw the film, I took it as meaning that Bruce sacrificed himself even though he didnt have to.
But now that you mention it, that would give him a way out of getting killed by the nuke, although then again it brings up the question how the hell would he have gotten far enough away from it to survive? Especially considering they showed him still in the Bat with the clock around the 10 second mark.
Also adding to the controversy is the fact that someone(not sure if it was bane or pavel) said the nuke had like an 8 mile radius... How in the world Bruce could've gotten away from that is beyond me..
The blast radius thing is a different story, haha. I think a lot of people brought that up. My feeling is two-fold. First, I think you have to take a leap of faith sometimes in these movies. It may just be unrealistic, plain and simple. The way I took it as possible was that either:
Because The Bat is essentially a fighter jet, it probably can go several hundred miles an hour. I think he had like 1:30ish left when he got near the water, so it's conceivable that if he put the auto pilot at full speed the jet could go 6 or miles in that amount of time traveling like 300-400 miles per hour. Actually fighter jets go way faster. My thought is he ditched as soon as he was out over water, just outside the city, and the thing blew up just outside the blast radius.
The other option is that it hit the water first and that lessened the impact.
First off - why do we use spoiler tags in the spoiler forum / threads?
Second..
It's obvious Bruce is alive. I know some of you guys want to think Nolan went out on a limb and created an Inception type of ending, but he didn't. The auto-pilot was fixed and the most damning evidence of Bruce being alive is the pearls. He took them back from Selina and at the end she is at the diner, wearing them with Bruce sitting there. First off, Alfred wouldn't of imagined Selina wearing the pearls (did he even know Bruce got them back? Did he know Selina was Catwoman? It never says). Second, the pearls were missing from the manifest. It's obvious Bruce faked his death and the death of Batman, because he had moved on. The city was saved and it did inspire people. Blake was the shining example of this. Through out the movie, Bruce even gives tips to Blake on how to take up the mantle.
He lived. Plain and simple. The worst part of it isn't the fact he lived. It's the whole quinky-dink that Alfred and him go to the same exact cafe at the same exact date and time. We are lead to believe that Alfred buries him, gives a heart breaking speech. Moves on, goes to a cafe and behold! There is Bruce and Selina at the same date and time. And all that happens is a ...nod? Alfred has thought of Bruce as a son for his entire life and he just buried him. Would he simply NOD to him? I don't think so. So, it isn't the fact that Bruce is alive that's off. It's how him being alive is handled for the other characters.
We aren't allowed to use spoilers in the main thread. Some people might have small questions here and there, like if Catwoman uses a whip or something. This is where they would ask, but you don't wanna ruin the whole movie for them.
I thought for sure they would still have the scene[BLACKOUT]of Catwoman coming down the staircase on the Batpod in the film.[/BLACKOUT] Is one of the reasons because [BLACKOUT]her stuntwoman took out the IMAX camera?[/BLACKOUT] <-- not sure if that should be spoiler proofed or not, but just in case.
I have been reading this forum for a couple weeks. I don't mind spoilers.*
But! I do want to point out that you guys look way too deep into the ending.*
I just saw the movie. And honestly. No offense but I think most of the people's take on the ending is kind of um... For lack of a better/less insulting word. *Stupid.*
From what people were posting... The ending was made out to be open ended...or unclear... Honestly, it's pretty obvious. First off... Robin, is not a new batman or someone who is taking up the mantle. He's robin... The way he swings through the water fall. The way he helps batman. Everything he does is robin. She says "you should use your real name.... Robin". *
So what if he's not dick Greyson or any of the other robins. Ras was never ducard I never heard anyone cry about that?*
Yes he finds the batcave... Where do you get the "taking up the mantle" from? Last time I checked. Robin worked with batman in the cave as well. Just because hes rising up on the platform doesnt mean hes findig the suit * *Come on hes looking up! Its a metaphor of the whole "rises" part. *
Just because someone takes up the mantle in the comics doesn't mean Blake *is going to. It's never truly implied that he's going to be the next batman. It's pretty freakin obvious that he's robin. Did you guys not hear her say "robin" .... Seriously chill out people. Think about this logically. Why would Nolan call him robin??? Guys it's a movie. Seriously.*
"well Bruce left to Italy with Selina" so. Who's to say he wont come back... Or that he stopped , that scene was there for a reason... to show that he's still alive... And so Alfred will be happy. No one wants Alfred's last scene to be him crying.*
My point is you guys need to relax and take in just how good of a movie this is. you guys expect the ending to be all complicated because of the inception ending which quite frankly left us all saying "what the f***? Was he or no?"*
Guys it's simple. Nolan said straight up. This is the end of the story. Batman saved Gotham. Inspired the city. Robin helped. Now robins in the cave. Batman obviously isn't dead... Idk why everyone doesn't like it so much. Seriously. Like I said. Chill people enjoy the movie and it's epicness. It's Nolan's take on it. If you dont like it. Well then go watch the old batman movies. Or the cartoon. This was a great movie. End of story.*
It's not obvious Bruce is dead, what's obvious however is the ending worked as it was intended. Lets face it some of us think the story of Batman can't end without Bruce Wayne ending as well, others think he deserves a happy ending. You really can't win killing or sparing your hero in a movie like this. This way the audience is left to be the judge as to if he survived or not. If you want him to be dead, you'll find evidence as to why he's dead and there is plenty, if you want him to be alive however you'll most likely find just as much evidence showing this to be true instead.
As for Blake being Batman/Robin I also think is up to speculation. You are absolutely correct that he is directly called Robin and that's who he is in the movie. However, Dick also takes up the mantle of being Batman after being Robin. In the film he is effectively Bruces sidekick and with Robin being his real name, it wouldn't be wrong to say he was Robin the whole movie, and at the end he's ready to become Batman/Nightwing. Again it's up to your own interpretation.
where the heck was the scene of the tumbler driving up the steps and firing on the courthouse (was in the trailer)? and catwoman driving down the stairs?
If the Cafe scene was suppose to be left up to our interpretation, then why even tell us the auto pilot was fixed? He fixed it and lived. No need for interpretation IMO.
Batman 2.0. Since he's in the Batcave, he'll find the suit most likely and would have no need to make his own type of Robin costume. Plus I like to think Goyer/Nolan threw that in there as a nod to the series "Batman and Robin" where Dick Grayson(original Robin)took up the mantle when Bruce died.
Batman 2.0. Since he's in the Batcave, he'll find the suit most likely and would have no need to make his own type of Robin costume. Plus I like to think Goyer/Nolan threw that in there as a nod to the series "Batman and Robin" where Dick Grayson(original Robin)took up the mantle when Bruce died.
where the heck was the scene of the tumbler driving up the stairs and firing on the courthouse (was in the trailer)? and catwoman driving down the stairs?
One thing that disappointed me was the lack of footage of all the cops and thugs fighting in front of city hall. There is fan footage from that shoot where you see Batman and Bane do some more fighting moves. The person who shot it was up in a building so it was a birds eye view and you can see Batman hit Bane and as Bane gets shoved back he pushes off a cop(or thug, can't remember)into a kick at Batman. Some of that fight/war got left on the cutting room floor I think.
One thing that disappointed me was the lack of footage of all the cops and thugs fighting in front of city hall. There is fan footage from that shoot where you see Batman and Bane do some more fighting moves. The person who shot it was up in a building so it was a birds eye view and you can see Batman hit Bane and as Bane gets shoved back he pushes off a cop(or thug, can't remember)into a kick at Batman. Some of that fight/war got left on the cutting room floor I think.
TOTALLY AGREE. I feel a bit cheated that we didn't get to see more of that fight. I think its pretty clear now the rumors of the 1st cut being over 4 hours are close to accurate. I really think this movie could of easily been a two parter. Some of the scenes felt a bit rushed and could of been fleshed out more. After seeing the first teaser I was disapointed that the hospital scene wasn't made out to be more. An if you notice the pacing is all off with Bruce coming back to be Batman. He literally meets with Fox and tells him he's retired only to come home and suit up as Batman. Oh well no sense dwelling on what they could or should have done. Overall I liked it, great way to end the trilogy. If Nolan was to do a directors cut release I'd be very happy but Nolan doesn't seem like the type to do that
Bat symbol repair to mean the exact same thing the cafe scene and the auto pilot fix being made know to mean. They were all little nods to the important people in Bruce's life, to let them know that he was alive and ok. That is why Alfred, Gordon and Lucius all got that moment.
in Morrison's run that almost anyone could be Batman. Though when three cops were supposed to take the mantle it didn't work out so well. But, yknow, Battle for the Cowl (which is a horrible book in my opinion, unneccessary story. Grayson was the obvious successor.)
They made such a big emphasis on Batman being gone. Also Blake knew Batman. It almost feels out of place for him to try and take his place as opposed to starting his own path.
But hey, maybe I am wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, and it most definitely wouldn't be the last.
Batman 2.0. Since he's in the Batcave, he'll find the suit most likely and would have no need to make his own type of Robin costume. Plus I like to think Goyer/Nolan threw that in there as a nod to the series "Batman and Robin" where Dick Grayson(original Robin)took up the mantle when Bruce died.
The [BLACKOUT]Robin reference [/BLACKOUT] just felt completely unnecessary to me. No need for it, other than to excite [BLACKOUT]Robin fans[/BLACKOUT].
Blake receiving the coordinates, then heading towards the waterfall as John Blake, would have left me much happier. It would have instilled a sense that it's "Batman" that continues on, and not the possibility of Robin instead. The other thought behind the Robin reference, is that Blake respects Bruce and "Batman" too much to simply replace him, so he'll take on his own entity as "Robin", and that put a horrible taste in my mouth as a way to end this franchise.
Of course Bruce is alive. Fox finds Bruce fixed the Bat autopilot so we understand easily that he ejected from the Bat. Bruce knows that Alfred will go on holidays and mets him with Selina at the cafe.
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