The Dark Knight Rises TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 4

[BatLobster]

One more flaw: There's absolutely no reason Batman needed to die. Had he used the auto-pilot and saved Gotham without faking his death, he would still be redeemed in the public eye because he SAVED Gotham from NUCLEAR DESTRUCTION AND EVERYBODY SAW IT.

If he wanted to give up, he could've just done it, passed the torch to Blake.

The only LOGICAL reason he died in the end is because of forced drama and to have a forced twist in the end to make the writers look smart.

It's not forced drama. It's the perfect ending. The dude saved Gotham from a nuke that was seconds away from detonating. You cannot possibly retire on a higher note. There is no threat to Gotham that could possibly be more severe that...he'd given the city everything but his life, and he finally realized that is where he'd draw the line.

The genius of this movie is that Bruce willingly engineered his own fake sacrifice. Because in that pit, he regained the desire to live. To truly live, away from Batman. Stopping that bomb was his "last mission", and Bruce knows it from the get-go. He realizes by the end that he wants what Selina wants: a clean slate, a new start. Which is why it's so beautiful that they end up together.

 

[Reikowolf]

It's not forced drama. It's the perfect ending. The dude saved Gotham from a nuke that was seconds away from detonating. You cannot possibly retire on a higher note. There is no threat to Gotham that could possibly be more severe that...he'd given the city everything but his life, and he finally realized that is where he'd draw the line.

The genius of this movie is that Bruce willingly engineered his own fake sacrifice. Because in that pit, he regained the desire to live. To truly live, away from Batman. Stopping that bomb was his "last mission", and Bruce knows it from the get-go. He realizes by the end that he wants what Selina wants: a clean slate, a new start. Which is why it's so beautiful that they end up together.

well said

 

[Broker]

It's not forced drama. It's the perfect ending. The dude saved Gotham from a nuke that was seconds away from detonating. You cannot possibly retire on a higher note. There is no threat to Gotham that could possibly be more severe that...he'd given the city everything but his life, and he finally realized that is where he'd draw the line.

The genius of this movie is that Bruce willingly engineered his own fake sacrifice. Because in that pit, he regained the desire to live. To truly live, away from Batman. Stopping that bomb was his "last mission", and Bruce knows it from the get-go. He realizes by the end that he wants what Selina wants: a clean slate, a new start. Which is why it's so beautiful that they end up together.

Totally agree, great post. It still amazes me that some people don't seem to 'get' this.

 

[BatLobster]

Something that is kinda weird. When you see the scene with the will woman, Blake says: Anything for John Blake? She says: No. But then he give her this card and says try birth name and then she finds it.

Why is it Robin John Blake and not Robin "whatever surname"?

If its Robin John Blake, wouldn't she find the name on the list because there's really not that much of a difference.

We don't know that it's Robin John Blake. He just said check my legal name. He could have a different last name. Hell, his last name could be Grayson, Todd, Drake. We'll never know. The lady was just complimenting him on his real first name.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

It's not forced drama. It's the perfect ending. The dude saved Gotham from a nuke that was seconds away from detonating. You cannot possibly retire on a higher note. There is no threat to Gotham that could possibly be more severe that...he'd given the city everything but his life, and he finally realized that is where he'd draw the line.

The genius of this movie is that Bruce willingly engineered his own fake sacrifice. Because in that pit, he regained the desire to live. To truly live, away from Batman. Stopping that bomb was his "last mission", and Bruce knows it from the get-go. He realizes by the end that he wants what Selina wants: a clean slate, a new start. Which is why it's so beautiful that they end up together.

Couldnt have said it better myself.
Love this description

 

[Ecuanime]

There was nothing in their relationship as strong as the mutual attraction that Keaton and Pfeiffer had. I never got a sense that he loved her, and he had no reason to - she betrayed him, FFS!
I'm going again on Friday night, maybe I'll get a better sense of it then.
Don't get me wrong, both actors did a great job, and Hathaway was STUNNING, but I didn't get a strong sense of overpowering attraction.

You're right, in Batman Returns, there was great chemistry and sexual attraction between the two. They related on the level that they were two people wearing masks. In TDKR that exists too but differently. I would say more emotional, personal and profound. I think it's interesting how, after Catwoman stole his car, fingerprints, betrayed him, and set him up with Bane, he still came to her because he needed her to help save Gotham. In other words, he understood where she comes from and forgives her. They both saved each other's ass. And one more thing, he believed that she can make the right decision to do good, and she did in the end. She realized that Bruce is more than a rich playboy, but as Batman has seen him being brutalized and risk his life to save people. Bruce touched her in ways that no one else hasn't, which might even explain the kiss at the end.

 

[Ecuanime]

For the last time, it is not a fantasy. Alfred said he went to a cafe on Holiday a lot and hoped to see Bruce there someday. The cafe is a real place that Bruce knows about.

I'm not saying that the cafe was a fantasy. Alfred says that he "goes to that cafe and fantasizes on Bruce being there..." You have to listen to the dialogue...

 

[Ecuanime]

There is ironic isn't it?

Wayne in a way was asking for someone to end his life. He wanted a mercy killing and Bane saw through that. It would have been an empty victory for Bane had he killed him but by letting him live Wayne found the will to live and regain fear in the sense of having to let and live with knowing that his entire city fell to its knees and died in a purging fire. Killing his few allies and the people he fought so hard to protect.

I really liked how this movie showed us that having fear can sometimes be a useful tool.

Thank you for this response.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

It's not forced drama. It's the perfect ending. The dude saved Gotham from a nuke that was seconds away from detonating. You cannot possibly retire on a higher note. There is no threat to Gotham that could possibly be more severe that...he'd given the city everything but his life, and he finally realized that is where he'd draw the line.

The genius of this movie is that Bruce willingly engineered his own fake sacrifice. Because in that pit, he regained the desire to live. To truly live, away from Batman. Stopping that bomb was his "last mission", and Bruce knows it from the get-go. He realizes by the end that he wants what Selina wants: a clean slate, a new start. Which is why it's so beautiful that they end up together.

I agree. Majorly.

 

[NoBozos]

And now Blake has a house full of potential candidates for a "Batman Army" running around upstairs.

To quote the Wiki entry for "The Dark Knight Returns"

His plan, which will take years of training and studying, is to build an army, and to bring sense to a world plagued by something "worse than thieves and murderers". He decides that this will be a "good life – good enough."

 

[The Caped Knight]

"People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy and I can't do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man I am flesh and blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed. But as a symbol... As a symbol, I can be incorruptible. I can be everlasting."

This quote is exactly what Bruce became to the people of Gotham at the end of TDKR.

 

[Syncope]

"People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy and I can't do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man I am flesh and blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed. But as a symbol... As a symbol, I can be incorruptible. I can be everlasting."

This quote is exactly what Bruce became to the people of Gotham at the end of TDKR.

No, he didn't. He became a statue.

 

[Reikowolf]

"People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy and I can't do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man I am flesh and blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed. But as a symbol... As a symbol, I can be incorruptible. I can be everlasting."

This quote is exactly what Bruce became to the people of Gotham at the end of TDKR.

well said.

I did enjoy how Bane was very similar in that respect at the beginning of the movie. I had speculated for some time beforehand that Bane was either a member or the new leader of the League of Shadows. It was my one expectation for TDKR and it delivered it very well IMO

 

[kthevs]

From a guy on Imdb (a pretty reliable poster)-

Okay, got a hold of the Official Novelization of the movie by Greg Cox. This may be as close as we ever get on having an offical "this is why it happened that way" from Nolan. I'm sure Greg Cox, the author of the book, had the script and/or the movie to help him in novelizing the movie. So here are some things I have found interesting from the official novel:

-1st off the end. It really happened. NOT ambiguous. The scene in Italy even mentions Alfred looking 1st at a table beside him hoping it's Wayne and it's not. It never is. Then, 2 pages later, Alfred looks up and sees Wayne. He sees a "lovely young brunette" who he thinks resembles the maid that stole Waynes necklace and thinks her name was Selina. He gets up and walks away with a spring in his step.

-Lucius is able to assemble a variant model of The Bat by using components that had survived Bane's incursion. That is what he uses to discover that the autopilot had been fixed.

-It WAS indeed Talia and Bane's plan to die all along. Extremists indeed.

-The rope outside The Pit was used to lower prisoners and sometimes supplies. No guard was posted outside when Wayne climbs out because it seems basically impossible that anyone can ever escape. He lowers it down to help the others escape and I believe this can imply that everyone in The Pit will be grateful to him for doing so and will not notify Bane of Wayne's escape.

-The purpose of the small bomb Blake throws is to alert the cops that an explosion is coming and to get away from the rock. The Bat then comes of course and blows open a hole big enough for the cops to escape through.

-Bane does indeed die by getting shot by the Bat-Pod.

-The Joker is mentioned! I will give you the exact quote. "Now that the Dent Act had made it all but impossible for the city's criminals to cop an insanity plea, it (Blackgate Prison) had replaced Arkham Asylum as preferred location for imprisoning both convicted and suspected felons. The worst of the worst were sent here, except for the Joker, who, rumor had it, was locked away as Arkham's sole remaining inmate. Or perhaps he had escaped. Nobody was really sure. Not even Selina."

 

[Syncope]

^Found that all very interesting, especially the part of Talia and Bane willing to give their lives to destroy Gotham. Makes them much more interesting characters.

 

[M-2]

What I want to know.. Is what happened to Juno Temple's character??? She was just randomly by Selina side... but never saw her at the end!! Is she dead??

 

[Micromind]

I have mentioned this a few times already but the way the Pit was seen as an allegory to the Well young Bruce Wayne fell into in BB was well done

not to mention the way it also serves as an adaptation of the Lazarus Pit.

Ras Al Ghul was reborn in the pit through his heir, Talia

Batman was broken by Bane, which allowed for Bruce Wayne to be reborn in the pit.

incidentally, Bane never expected that Bruce would survive, in his own words "Impossible"

I feel that instilled the first signs of fear in Bane, as he realized that Bruce Wayne is more than just Batman. That and the knowledge that Bane needed the mask to function was what gave Batman the upper hand in their fight.

Good points.

 

[Micromind]

From a guy on Imdb (a pretty reliable poster)-

Okay, got a hold of the Official Novelization of the movie by Greg Cox. This may be as close as we ever get on having an offical "this is why it happened that way" from Nolan. I'm sure Greg Cox, the author of the book, had the script and/or the movie to help him in novelizing the movie. So here are some things I have found interesting from the official novel:

-1st off the end. It really happened. NOT ambiguous. The scene in Italy even mentions Alfred looking 1st at a table beside him hoping it's Wayne and it's not. It never is. Then, 2 pages later, Alfred looks up and sees Wayne. He sees a "lovely young brunette" who he thinks resembles the maid that stole Waynes necklace and thinks her name was Selina. He gets up and walks away with a spring in his step.

-Lucius is able to assemble a variant model of The Bat by using components that had survived Bane's incursion. That is what he uses to discover that the autopilot had been fixed.

-It WAS indeed Talia and Bane's plan to die all along. Extremists indeed.

-The rope outside The Pit was used to lower prisoners and sometimes supplies. No guard was posted outside when Wayne climbs out because it seems basically impossible that anyone can ever escape. He lowers it down to help the others escape and I believe this can imply that everyone in The Pit will be grateful to him for doing so and will not notify Bane of Wayne's escape.

-The purpose of the small bomb Blake throws is to alert the cops that an explosion is coming and to get away from the rock. The Bat then comes of course and blows open a hole big enough for the cops to escape through.

-Bane does indeed die by getting shot by the Bat-Pod.

-The Joker is mentioned! I will give you the exact quote. "Now that the Dent Act had made it all but impossible for the city's criminals to cop an insanity plea, it (Blackgate Prison) had replaced Arkham Asylum as preferred location for imprisoning both convicted and suspected felons. The worst of the worst were sent here, except for the Joker, who, rumor had it, was locked away as Arkham's sole remaining inmate. Or perhaps he had escaped. Nobody was really sure. Not even Selina."

Sounds interesting.

 

[Broseph44]

It's not forced drama. It's the perfect ending. The dude saved Gotham from a nuke that was seconds away from detonating. You cannot possibly retire on a higher note. There is no threat to Gotham that could possibly be more severe that...he'd given the city everything but his life, and he finally realized that is where he'd draw the line.

The genius of this movie is that Bruce willingly engineered his own fake sacrifice. Because in that pit, he regained the desire to live. To truly live, away from Batman. Stopping that bomb was his "last mission", and Bruce knows it from the get-go. He realizes by the end that he wants what Selina wants: a clean slate, a new start. Which is why it's so beautiful that they end up together.

Perfectly said dude people still aren't grasping this. And as Bruce has said ever since BB Batman is a symbol, not a person. Anybody can be Batman.

 

[Cats]

No, he didn't. He became a statue.

The point of having a statue is to act as a symbol to the crowds, at least in the universe that I'm from.

 

[Syncope]

The point of having a statue is to act as a symbol to the crowds, at least in the universe that I'm from.

That's true, can't believe I didn't pick up on that!

 

[hurleyb6930]

BREAD WARRIOR i need your help man

 

[venus_ice]

Yeah the novelization fills in some gaps

 

[dukeofvanx]

It's not forced drama. It's the perfect ending. The dude saved Gotham from a nuke that was seconds away from detonating. You cannot possibly retire on a higher note. There is no threat to Gotham that could possibly be more severe that...he'd given the city everything but his life, and he finally realized that is where he'd draw the line.

The genius of this movie is that Bruce willingly engineered his own fake sacrifice. Because in that pit, he regained the desire to live. To truly live, away from Batman. Stopping that bomb was his "last mission", and Bruce knows it from the get-go. He realizes by the end that he wants what Selina wants: a clean slate, a new start. Which is why it's so beautiful that they end up together.

Great Post

 

[Atom Ant]

Totally agree, great post. It still amazes me that some people don't seem to 'get' this.

not only that but it protects his loved ones like Alfred and Selina because he doesn't know for sure that no one else knew he was Batman . If he remained Bruce Wayne then those around him could possibly be in danger.