The Dark Knight Rises TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 4

[Broker]

Yes but I'm not saying that people are stupid or attention seeking. I have said that your opinions are as valid as mine because whether you like it or net the ending is ambiguous, hence why some people have alternative interpretations. If it wasn't, they wouldn't.

Well, you can find ambiguity in anything if you are intentionally looking for it...is bane actually dead? Whether it is intentionally left open to interpretation is another matter entirely.

 

[DasFeuerSteigt]

Welcome to SHH.

I'm sure everyone has been hounded at some point for having an alternative opinion. It's your opinion and your welcome to it, but if you don't want it to be contested, then don't post it on an internet forum.

I have no problem with it being contested, it's the manner in which it's done.

 

[Syncope]

If Alfred only hallucinated Bruce at the end, then do we assume that Alfred may have contracted dementia? If that's the case, then do we assume that Alfred may have hallucinated the entire trilogy?

That's a possible interpretation.

 

[herecomes]

I have no problem with it being contested, it's the manner in which it's done.

Did you see Bruce at the end with Selina in the cafe? I thought it was pretty clear that Bruce was alive, who knows if well, but alive. What are your thoughts in this scene? Do you think it was Alfred just imagining it? I'm interested in what you have to say, I'm not mocking you or anything, just pure curiosity.

 

[Syncope]

I have no problem with it being contested, it's the manner in which it's done.

The manner has been fine. You are becoming emotional because you are being outnumbered. We've all been there.

 

[munchie64]

I don't think Harvey Dent is dead. Oh wait... wrong film.

 

[Reikowolf]

I have seriously come to believe that nobody paid any attention to the plot therefore they are coming up its these ridiculous theories for the ending. I mean it wouldn't be so ridiculous if the movie wasnt spelled out for you. If you pay attention everything is explained.

I'm guessing people only watched the last like 15 minutes of the movie.

well said,

watched it for the third time and the movie has a very good cause and effect flow. It is a thick movie and you have to pay attention but it is rewarding.

only two things stood out that could logically be justified

1. How did Bruce Wayne make it back to the US, let alone Gotham?

a: Bruce did live as a criminal for several years all over the world, he may have used his ties to find his way back. He may have also had money outside of Gotham to use, it would have been the only way he could have paid the smugglers who he hires to fly the plane in the skyhook sequence without the money tracing back to Bruce Wayne.

2. How does Fox get to the device after he was captured along with Miranda Tate by Bane at Wayne Enterprises? The last we see of him before the final sequence is standing trial at the courthouse.

a: When the cops begin their assault at the courthouse, he is able to escape the trial during the confusion.

 

[DasFeuerSteigt]

If Alfred only hallucinated Bruce at the end, then do we assume that Alfred may have contracted dementia? If that's the case, then do we assume that Alfred may have hallucinated the entire trilogy?

That's a possible interpretation.

If Bruce can hallucinate Ras al-Ghul without a history of mental illness, I'm sure Alfred can hallucinate/daydream too.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

If Alfred only hallucinated Bruce at the end, then do we assume that Alfred may have contracted dementia? If that's the case, then do we assume that Alfred may have hallucinated the entire trilogy?

That's a possible interpretation.

Didn't you guys stick around till the end of the credits? Alfred woke up in the shower.

 

[Syncope]

If Bruce can hallucinate Ras al-Ghul without a history of mental illness, I'm sure Alfred can hallucinate/daydream too.

Gee, thanks! It was really bugging me. The films make sense now.

 

[kthevs]

Actually I watch a LOT of movies. A couple a day usually. I pay close attention to things like editing, structure, etc because as an aspiring filmmaker these are the things which interest me. It is possible to interpret the ending as Bruce's death. I'm not necessarily saying that's correct, but that Nolan leaves enough thread to pull on with regards to that interpretation. The other interpretation is equally possible.

Except it's not possible. If Bruce died, that would mean that some scenes are in the movie for absolutly no reason whatsoever. And as Nolan said, he needs 3 reasons to keep a scene in, otherwise he cuts it.

Look at the ending of Inception- the music, the lighting, etc. Compare it to the ending of rises- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMk_pJPyvSM

As the filmmakers on Nolan fans pointed, there is nothing to suggest Alfred is seeing things. The music especially kicks up right when Alfred realizes Bruce is alive.

Bruce would never kill himself. It would completely defy the nature of his character. He won't be selfish like that and do something that would destroy Alfred. This entire series is about him moving on from pain and getting a life. Him dying would defeat the purpose.

Not to mention that the ending is from dark knight returns (a favorite of the Nolan bros and one of the most famous comic books ever). Guess what happens in that... Bruce fakes his death and marries Selina.

And there is no logical reason Alfred would see Selina in the cafe. Nolan makes it a point to have Anne turn her head so that we can see that it is her.

Again, there is NO logical way to assume that he died. None. You just have to watch the movie again and pay attention to the classis misdirections that are there to make us think he died for about 2 minutes.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

If Bruce can hallucinate Ras al-Ghul without a history of mental illness, I'm sure Alfred can hallucinate/daydream too.

I've hallucinated under extreme pain before. Albeit not quite as vividly but more or less the same. But that was real life and not a movie.

Oh and no mental illness here. I want to make that clear.

 

[kthevs]

If Bruce can hallucinate Ras al-Ghul without a history of mental illness, I'm sure Alfred can hallucinate/daydream too.

Except that Ra's disappears and the music and lighting in that scene perfectly suit a hallucination.

Bruce and Selina do not disappear, and the music and lighting make it clear he isn't seeing things.

Give it up and stop ignoring facts just because you didn't get the ending you wanted.

Again, Bruce would NEVER commit suicide. It completely goes against his character and the arc of this series.

 

[Midnight Black]

LOL....oh man. Look Alfred didn't hallucinate...quit making it more than what it was.

Bruce was there with Selina. He survived. All of the clues at the end were meant to show that he survived, passed the mantle, and is living his life.

 

[Syncope]

Actually I watch a LOT of movies. A couple a day usually. I pay close attention to things like editing, structure, etc because as an aspiring filmmaker these are the things which interest me. It is possible to interpret the ending as Bruce's death. I'm not necessarily saying that's correct, but that Nolan leaves enough thread to pull on with regards to that interpretation. The other interpretation is equally possible.

Quit now.

You can't take criticism for your opinion, so how are you going to take criticism for your films?

 

[Blue_Scholar]

LOL....oh man. Look Alfred didn't hallucinate...quit making it more than what it was.

Bruce was there with Selina. He survived. All of the clues at the end were meant to show that he survived, passed the mantle, and is living his life.

This. Period. Full-stop. End of Story.

 

[kthevs]

Quit now.

You can't take criticism for your opinion, so how are you going to take criticism for your films?

How can he be a filmmaker if he doesn't understand lighting, score, cuts, etc. These things are put there to put the audience in a certain mood.

 

[Reikowolf]

If Bruce can hallucinate Ras al-Ghul without a history of mental illness, I'm sure Alfred can hallucinate/daydream too.

I'm sure the pain from his dislocated vertebrae as he hung from a rope waiting for it to heal enough so he could stand had something to do with his hallucination.

 

[kthevs]

How can anyone think WB and the NOlan bros would have such a depressing ending. An ending that would leave the masses with a bitter taste in their mouth and thus hurt repeat viewings.

Again, the ending is from dark knight returns- Bruce fakes his death and ends up with Selina.

The end.

 

[JAK®]

Spielberg gets away with many things, but people are not willing to give Nolan same treatment.

Are you seriously suggesting that the nuke scene in Indiana Jones 4 was not criticised to the same extent the nuke in TDKR is?

That scene got so much hate that people tried to start a movement for replacing the phrase "Jump the shark" with "nuke the fridge" (One of the internet's more pathetic moments)

Speilberg got away with nothing regarding Indiana Jones 4.

 

[DasFeuerSteigt]

Okay well let's all just go with the "Bruce survived a nuke, nobody recognises the world's most famous billionaire and he just happens to be in the same seat in the same cafe in Italy that Alfred imagined he would be" then. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Syncope]

Okay well let's all just go with the "Bruce survived a nuke, nobody recognises the world's most famous billionaire and he just happens to be in the same seat in the same cafe in Italy that Alfred imagined he would be" then. Makes perfect sense.

You still haven't answered the Selina question. Your answer was "I don't know". Says it all.

 

[kthevs]

Okay well let's all just go with the "Bruce survived a nuke, nobody recognises the world's most famous billionaire and he just happens to be in the same seat in the same cafe in Italy that Alfred imagined he would be" then. Makes perfect sense.

Did you ignore everything that was said?

It's a movie. One with tons of plot holes and lapses in logic. The ending is right from dark knight returns. The hero survived something that in real life someone wouldn;t.... yeah, that;s never been done before. Stop overthinking it.

The fox scene, the gordon scene, and the pearl scene make it obvious he is alive. Again, it is straight from dark knight returns. If Jonah thought Joker was too iconic to kill off, he would never kill Bruce. And WB would never allow such a depressing ending to their tentpole summer popcorn film.

Bruce is not suicidal. Period. This whole movie is about him moving on and getting a life.

 

[JAK®]

Okay well let's all just go with the "Bruce survived a nuke, nobody recognises the world's most famous billionaire and he just happens to be in the same seat in the same cafe in Italy that Alfred imagined he would be" then. Makes perfect sense.

It makes as much sense as The Joker's shenanigans in TDK.

It's not realistic or likely, but it's what happened in the movie. There is a lot of suspension of disbelief required for this film. Because it's more about fulfilling the themes of the story rather than what is logical.

 

[BradenPickering]

Overall I enjoyed the movie and way things played out but there was one minor detail that I absolutely hated, and that's at the end when Blake is talking to the woman at the desk and says to look him up using his real name, and she says, "Have a nice day...Robin" or something to that effect. To me that was a much too cheesy and blatant allusion to what might be to come, and it would have been SO much more effective if she had said "Mr. Grayson" instead. It's the one moment where I felt like the film pandered to the more casual viewers who might be in danger of not "getting it" if it wasn't spelled out for them, and brought an otherwise interesting character's storyline to a sad and silly fizzle.