The Dark Knight Rises TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 4

[Blue_Scholar]

From Urbandictionary: " noun. A person identified as an easy target, or "sucker". A mark is always the short end of a joke or scam, and is never let in on whats going on. A mark is usually being cheated out of money."

If he was a John, she would've probably called him a "client."



I personally thought Juno Temple was more like Holly.

Well where I'm from, Houston, "marks", "johns" and "tricks" are all the same thing regardless of what the infallible urbandictionary says.

 

[gingerhulk]

Where was the rope hung from in the prison scene?

 

[Micromind]

first time poster...just wanted to chime in on the discussion about one thing that some people didn't pick up on in the movie that really bothered me. that would be the fact that commissioner Gordon and his wife are separated. i saw a lot of people who were either confused about where his family had gone (and had clearly not paid enough attention to the Harvey Dent Day party scene) or were upset that something so vital to Gordon's character and motivation had been left out of the movie.

frustrating to hear people with these problems. seems like some people who went to the theater forgot the closing scenes of TDK where Gordon and wife watch a madman point a gun at their children's heads...more than enough reason for her to feel like maybe this wasn't the healthiest relationship. also, she and the children were obviously among the few people who knew the truth about Harvey Dent, and I'm pretty sure hiding a secret like that from the world might drive just about any happy couple apart.

it was also necessary for the character's development for Gordon to lose his family. he made a deal with the devil, and in TDKR we see the consequences for all of the people who made that deal. Gordon loses his family, Alfred essentially loses Bruce to internalized madness, Gotham locks away all the high-ranking criminals but the price for clean streets is paid in sacrificing the fundamental rights of it's citizens (the Dent Act is a not so subtle criticism of the Patriot Act and others enacted by recent administrations), Fox loses Wayne Enterprises and sees his friendship with Bruce wither away...and that's just the first act. it was all necessary, because the movie is about all of those people who allowed Batman to become a necessary form of justice finding a way to rise from the pit they've willingly thrown themselves into.

I think people should react to TDKR right away after they see it in theaters, but should also take time to watch the first two movies after having seen TDKR. A lot of the things that you felt were wrong with this movie might very well be explained in the greater context of the trilogy. it is a long saga but incredibly well balanced. you will understand more of what happened in the dark knight rises and why it happened if you go back and watch the first two movies again. i'm a huge Batman fan, but I love this trilogy because of the epic story-telling - in time I feel like many people who say the TDK is better/more entertaining than TDKR (myself included at the time of this post) will come to see how epic and finely crafted the final installment of this series really is

sorry for the rant, for future posts I will be much more brief...I just had to get some things off my chest. if i did anything i'm not supposed to in this post, please tell me so that i can correct for future posts.

Thank you for pointing out these things (I missed what happened to Gordon's Family.).

 

[mrfox60]

Great movie. One concern, though.

Spoiler

Should Talia have been able to penetrate the batsuit so easliy with a knife when she stabbed Batman? I thought it could deflect knives and some bullet angles.

 

[joem4077]

Great movie. One concern, though.

Spoiler

Should Talia have been able to penetrate the batsuit so easliy with a knife when she stabbed Batman? I thought it could deflect knives and some bullet angles.

The old suit would've been able to deflect it. When Bruce got the new 1 in TDK, Fox warned him that the separated armor plates would allow for him to be more flexible but would also make him more susceptible to knives and gunfire.

 

[mrfox60]

The old suit would've been able to deflect it. When Bruce got the new 1 in TDK, Fox warned him that the separated armor plates would allow for him to be more flexible but would also make him more susceptible to knives and gunfire.

Thanks, Joe.

Spoiler

That clears that up. Now I'm just left wondering how Bruce got from the prison to Gotham City. Could have been a cool journey to see.

 

[gyzo33]

Questions:


6. I feel like I am missing the whole point of Bruce escaping the pit. What was the meaning, both literal and underlying, of not using the rope?

To escape without fear. That the whole point of falling was to pick yourself up.

This is incorrect. Batman didn't fear death. He needed to fear again to get out.

 

[rodkeys]

I don't know if this has been posted, but...it's already on youtube:

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yw7PkTNTYk&feature=player_embedded

 

[Isis]

The old suit would've been able to deflect it. When Bruce got the new 1 in TDK, Fox warned him that the separated armor plates would allow for him to be more flexible but would also make him more susceptible to knives and gunfire.

It seems like a nod to Batman Returns, where Catwoman was somehow able to stab through Batman's bullet-proofed suit.

This is incorrect. Batman didn't fear death. He needed to fear again to get out.

I guess that makes sense too.

 

[DaveMoral]

The old suit would've been able to deflect it. When Bruce got the new 1 in TDK, Fox warned him that the separated armor plates would allow for him to be more flexible but would also make him more susceptible to knives and gunfire.

Haha. After which he is pretty promptly stabbed multiple times by the Joker and eventually shot by Two-Face.

 

[joem4077]

It seems like a nod to Batman Returns, where Catwoman was somehow able to stab through Batman's bullet-proofed suit.

You'd think if that was the case then it would've been Catwoman doing the stabbing, and the only stabbing Catwoman did was stab him in back by setting him up for that first encounter with Bane.

 

[LOS]

Loved the final film, but thought some of it I'm not sure I understand.

Spoiler

1.) At the last fight was Bane than beatin by Batman to easy? I understand that BRuce Wayne went into the pit and got in better physical shape but from what I was understanding from their first fight Bane knew all of Batman's fighting skills do to his training with the League of Shadows as well. SO I took it that Bane was just a more skillfull warrior than batman.

2.) Not sure why Bruce had so much care or patience with Selina. She stole from him and what was worst was that she set him up for Bane to beat him and Batman still cared for her.

5.) Was there an explaination of where Selina got her suit or gear?

4.) I thought it was great that at the end JOhn Blake(Robin) found the batcave which leads me to believe that he would be the next batman. But I'm confused to understand at how it would work for him. Bruce went into a lot of training for years and his weapons and suit are based from his martial arts skills how would Robin fit into that?

 

[spider-neil]

Saw the movie for the second today. For me despite the flaws thematically I like this movie over TDK, although I still have problems with;

1. Alfred knowing the intimate details of Bane.
I know Bruce needed to given that information 'somehow' but there MUST have been a better way then getting it from Alfred.

2. Blake knowing Bruce was Batman.
Bruce - 'How did you know I was Batman?'
Blake - 'Simple deduction'.
Batman has to be a resident of Gotham to patrol the streets every night (eliminating non Gothamites)
Batman is male (elimating all women)
Batman has to be in his early 20's - late 30's (eliminating everyone younger or older)
Batman has a host of high tech weapons and transportation so is heavily funded therefore very rich (reducing search to someone in the 1%)
Batman must be throwing himself in harms way for a reason therefore it's safe to assume some tradegy drives him (reduce the search to someone with tradegy to a wife, parent or child.
Blake - 'When I whittled all of that down, you were the only name left on the list'

Simple. And I would have swallowed that much more than 'being able to see anger'. C'mon who didn't roll their eyes at that?

3. Auto pilot escape.
Nuff said.

4. 'Robin'
UGH!

Other than that, things like Bruce getting back to Gotham from prison don't really bother me. TDKR is flawed but for me the best of the series.

 

[DorkyFresh]

Loved the final film, but thought some of it I'm not sure I understand.

Spoiler

1.) At the last fight was Bane than beatin by Batman to easy? I understand that BRuce Wayne went into the pit and got in better physical shape but from what I was understanding from their first fight Bane knew all of Batman's fighting skills do to his training with the League of Shadows as well. SO I took it that Bane was just a more skillfull warrior than batman.

2.) Not sure why Bruce had so much care or patience with Selina. She stole from him and what was worst was that she set him up for Bane to beat him and Batman still cared for her.

5.) Was there an explaination of where Selina got her suit or gear?

4.) I thought it was great that at the end JOhn Blake(Robin) found the batcave which leads me to believe that he would be the next batman. But I'm confused to understand at how it would work for him. Bruce went into a lot of training for years and his weapons and suit are based from his martial arts skills how would Robin fit into that?

Spoiler

1) Batman was actually struggling with Bane for their last fight up until Batman clipped Bane's mask with his gauntlets. That's when Bane started panicking and Batman realized that the mask is Bane's weakness.

2) Bruce always sees the GOOD in people who aren't obviously bad. Notice how he had a lot of faith in the people on the boats at the end of TDK. Bruce always understood that everything she did was for self preservation and not necessarily for destruction and he always knew that he could use a good ally in this battle.

3) Where IS 3? hehe

5) You put 5 before 4? :P There was no explanation for her suit. I just figure she stole enough money to be able to afford a suit like that.

4) John had to go through a certain amount of training to become a police officer so he has some foundation. We also don't know if he's ever taken any martial arts as a child or a teen. Either way, there's nothing saying that Bruce can't come back and train John or that John can't go on his own world tour of self discovery (ala Bruce in Batman Begins).

 

[LOS]

Spoiler

1) Batman was actually struggling with Bane for their last fight up until Batman clipped Bane's mask with his gauntlets. That's when Bane started panicking and Batman realized that the mask is Bane's weakness.

2) Bruce always sees the GOOD in people who aren't obviously bad. Notice how he had a lot of faith in the people on the boats at the end of TDK. Bruce always understood that everything she did was for self preservation and not necessarily for destruction and he always knew that he could use a good ally in this battle.

3) Where IS 3? hehe

5) You put 5 before 4? :P There was no explanation for her suit. I just figure she stole enough money to be able to afford a suit like that.

4) John had to go through a certain amount of training to become a police officer so he has some foundation. We also don't know if he's ever taken any martial arts as a child or a teen. Either way, there's nothing saying that Bruce can't come back and train John or that John can't go on his own world tour of self discovery (ala Bruce in Batman Begins).

Thanks DorkyFresh that acually helped me out. Great points.

 

[DorkyFresh]

2. Blake knowing Bruce was Batman.
Bruce - 'How did you know I was Batman?'
Blake - 'Simple deduction'.
Batman has to be a resident of Gotham to patrol the streets every night (eliminating non Gothamites)
Batman is male (elimating all women)
Batman has to be in his early 20's - late 30's (eliminating everyone younger or older)
Batman has a host of high tech weapons and transportation so is heavily funded therefore very rich (reducing search to someone in the 1%)
Batman must be throwing himself in harms way for a reason therefore it's safe to assume some tradegy drives him (reduce the search to someone with tradegy to a wife, parent or child.
Blake - 'When I whittled all of that down, you were the only name left on the list'

Simple. And I would have swallowed that much more than 'being able to see anger'. C'mon who didn't roll their eyes at that?

I didn't...I thought it was a nice touch. There's so much "logic" that needs to be followed in this movie that it's nice to get a little emotion once in a while. Besides it's easier to relate to someone if you see their anger than if you use deductive reasoning skills. Emotions resonate with most humans more than logic does. If Blake hadn't seen Bruce's raw emotions and told him about it then Bruce might not have trusted Blake enough to pass down the mantle.

 

[spider-neil]

For me, when I see a movie a really like then I'm prepared to give the movie a 'gimme' when something doesn't make any sense.

 

[the_monk]

I haven't been on this forum since The Dark Knight came out. I saw The Dark Knight Rises yesterday and I was hoping someone could clear something up for me. I may have missed something crucial in the dialogue (hey, it's almost three hours and when nature calls, you have to listen).

Spoiler

The film's big reveal is that the child who escaped the prison was actually a girl, Talia al Ghul. The prisoners who help Bruce Wayne recover from his injuries and escape from the prison tell him it was a little boy. So were they lying to Bruce? If they were lying, that would infer they were working for Bane. So why would they help Bruce recover from his injuries? As I understood it, the doctor was in the prison at the same time as Bane and Talia, correct? He should have known it was a girl, shouldn't he?

Thanks in advance.

 

[DorkyFresh]

I haven't been on this forum since The Dark Knight came out. I saw The Dark Knight Rises yesterday and I was hoping someone could clear something up for me. I may have missed something crucial in the dialogue (hey, it's almost three hours and when nature calls, you have to listen).

Spoiler

The film's big reveal is that the child who escaped the prison was actually a girl, Talia al Ghul. The prisoners who help Bruce Wayne recover from his injuries and escape from the prison tell him it was a little boy. So were they lying to Bruce? If they were lying, that would infer they were working for Bane. So why would they help Bruce recover from his injuries? As I understood it, the doctor was in the prison at the same time as Bane and Talia, correct? He should have known it was a girl, shouldn't he?

Thanks in advance.

Spoiler

I don't think they ever specifically said the child was a boy or a son. I can't be sure, but it's probably just a psychological trick that if we see a kid with short hair we automatically think "BOY". That's one thing I love about Christopher Nolan, he's very cerebral and interested in the way the brain works. Again, I could be wrong...but I like to think that they never outright said that the child was as boy and that our thought process just filled in gaps to where we just assumed it was a boy.

 

[ChrisB]

I haven't been on this forum since The Dark Knight came out. I saw The Dark Knight Rises yesterday and I was hoping someone could clear something up for me. I may have missed something crucial in the dialogue (hey, it's almost three hours and when nature calls, you have to listen).

Spoiler

The film's big reveal is that the child who escaped the prison was actually a girl, Talia al Ghul. The prisoners who help Bruce Wayne recover from his injuries and escape from the prison tell him it was a little boy. So were they lying to Bruce? If they were lying, that would infer they were working for Bane. So why would they help Bruce recover from his injuries? As I understood it, the doctor was in the prison at the same time as Bane and Talia, correct? He should have known it was a girl, shouldn't he?

Thanks in advance.

He said it was a child, they never specified a gender.

 

[the_monk]

Spoiler

I don't think they ever specifically said the child was a boy or a son. I can't be sure, but it's probably just a psychological trick that if we see a kid with short hair we automatically think "BOY". That's one thing I love about Christopher Nolan, he's very cerebral and interested in the way the brain works. Again, I could be wrong...but I like to think that they never outright said that the child was as boy and that through process just filled in gaps and we just assumed it was a boy.

Yeah, as I was typing I started to wonder if maybe the prisoners didn't know it was a girl. Maybe they kept it a secret and Bane lead them to believe he was the child who escaped, or something. I'll have to see it again to try to figure it out.

Thanks.

 

[WarrenPeace2012]

Someone pointed this out in another thread and it blew my mind. People keep saying that Blake doesn't have the training to become a successor to Bruce but, like Ra's said "Training is nothing, will is everything. The will to act." Full circle indeed.

 

[joem4077]

Someone pointed this out in another thread and it blew my mind. People keep saying that Blake doesn't have the training to become a successor to Bruce but, like Ra's said "Training is nothing, will is everything. The will to act." Full circle indeed.

And then someone promptly pointed out afterward that without SOME training you're just gonna get yourself killed.

 

[WarrenPeace2012]

And then someone promptly pointed out afterward that without SOME training you're just gonna get yourself killed.

Lol this is true, but let's not forget he was a cop and knows how to use a gun if necessary. I don't think Wayne would just let him go out there on his own without some training. McGuinnis had very little training at first but Wayne eventually found ways to train him. So I guess you need the will and some training so you don't end up like Kick-Ass

 

[webhead731]

What is wrong with Kick-Ass?