The 52 '52' Spinoffs, Which Ones & Why?

[Kitsune]

I just saw the previews for Booster Gold on Newsarama and I was wondering,

Spoiler

Why is he wearing a Legion flight-ring?

Because that's how he flies...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Huh, that's strange
Thanks for doing the research, I was really taken aback when I saw the ring on his finger.

The Legion probably left them behind during one of their many Silver Age trips to the past. Coincidentally, the original Professor Zoom is from the same time period as Booster.

 

[yenaled]

The Museum he used to work from, where he got the ring and forcefield belt has items from every era of time, from the past and future.

 

[rigel7soldiers]

Black Adam, on th condition that the book is real with itself and changes Adam's magic word to "Imperius Rex!"

 

[trustyside-kick]

The ending to Black Adam makes no sense. The Lazarus Pit restores life to the dying, not the dead. Unless, the entire time Black Adam is going to think Isis is back, and his hallucination helps him discover the magical word...

 

[BrianWilly]

I'm pretty sure the Lazarus Pit restores life to the dead, as well. The downside is that they usually come back crazy.

 

[SenseiofCheese]

Yeah, I remember in Tower of Babel, the arc from Waid's JLA run, Ra's Al Ghul dug up and stole Batman's parents' caskets.
When Batman came to kick Ra's ' ass, he saw that the caskets suspended over a Lazarus Pit, where Ra's said he'd drop them in if he tried anything.

Assuming Ra's wasn't bluffing and Batman wouldn't have been bluffed, I think that Lazarus Pit can restore life to the dead.

 

[trustyside-kick]

No, it isn't supposed to restore the dead, only the dying or ill or wounded; that sort of thing. And then the person comes back with a time period of insanity. I've never heard of a time when it restored someone who had completely died. And Isis' body was way too decomposed to count as "still dying or ill or injured".

And I think the reason Ra's threatened Batman to drop the caskets into the pit was because he already violated their graves by digging them up. So dropping them in the Lazarus Pit where Batman wouldn't dare want to follow (a fully healthy person who enters would be killed by the Pit) would be even worse. It has nothing to do with them "possibly coming back", because they cannot; they are already dead.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Nope it definately restores dead to the living. Ask the Riddler.

 

[SenseiofCheese]

"Lazarus Pits are composed of a unique unknown chemical blend that bubbles up somewhere within the Earth's crust to the surface at key points on Earth, typically at the junction of ley lines. The substance possesses the ability to rejuvenate the sick, injured and even resurrect the dead. The pits also act as a youth restorative sometimes and how much it will decrease the age of the user depends on how long they stay submerged in the pit. If a healthy person goes into the pits, they will be killed in most instances."

 

[trustyside-kick]

"Lazarus Pits are composed of a unique unknown chemical blend that bubbles up somewhere within the Earth's crust to the surface at key points on Earth, typically at the junction of ley lines. The substance possesses the ability to rejuvenate the sick, injured and even resurrect the dead. The pits also act as a youth restorative sometimes and how much it will decrease the age of the user depends on how long they stay submerged in the pit. If a healthy person goes into the pits, they will be killed in most instances."

Oh, so now we are going to start quoting Wiki of all the sources? Name a story previous to this Black Adam mini of it restoring a completely dead person. Only one I can think of is when King Cobra used it, and that was different as I recall.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Nope it definately restores dead to the living. Ask the Riddler.

He didn't die. He was dying from cancer.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, so now we are going to start quoting Wiki of all the sources? Name a story previous to this Black Adam mini of it restoring a completely dead person. Only one I can think of is when King Cobra used it, and that was different as I recall.

That's the thing about Crises--there doesn't have to be any precedent before this. Post-IC, Lazarus Pits are apparently able to resurrect the long-dead. That's the way it is now.

 

[SenseiofCheese]

It would be insanely easy for Batman to get the caskets out of the Pit without going in himself or having someone healthy do it. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have been affected by his parents' bodies begin violated in such a way, but I really really think Ra's was suspending them over the Pit because they'd be revived. After all, there wouldn't be a Batman without the dead Thomas and Martha Wayne.

 

[trustyside-kick]

If the Crisis' changed that, I'm going to be a bit pissed.

I really do hope that the entire time Isis is "back", Black Adam is hallucinating and she actually isn't. That makes the Lazarus Pit even more of a Scapegoat to bring back dead characters.

 

[trustyside-kick]

It would be insanely easy for Batman to get the caskets out of the Pit without going in himself or having someone healthy do it. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have been affected by his parents' bodies begin violated in such a way, but I really really think Ra's was suspending them over the Pit because they'd be revived. After all, there wouldn't be a Batman without the dead Thomas and Martha Wayne.

Having someone healthy do it? They would die. And I really do not think he was trying to threaten to bring back his rents. I think it was to futher mutilate and violate their bodies.

 

[SenseiofCheese]

Having someone healthy do it? They would die.

I know. I was just saying, is all.

And I really do not think he was trying to threaten to bring back his rents. I think it was to futher mutilate and violate their bodies.

If that's what he was doing, then why threaten to throw them in the Lazarus Pit? There are so many, many, many other ways for Ra's to have done that, so why risk one of his precious Lazarus Pits?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

How would throwing their bodies into a Lazarus Pit even do anything to them other than get them wet? The only thing Lazarus Pits damage are perfectly healthy people. Corpses aren't exactly known for their healthy tissue. The threat was clearly (to me, anyway) that Ra's would resurrect Bruce's parents, which would be probably the worst violation conceivable for Bruce, so it seems the Lazarus Pits were retconned as resurrection devices before even Infinite Crisis.

Also, Cassandra Cain was restored to life through a Lazarus Pit pre-IC.

 

[Darthphere]

Also, Cassandra Cain was restored to life through a Lazarus Pit pre-IC.

Which would've been the only explanation necessary to justify her behavior OYL, of course DC is stupid.

 

[SenseiofCheese]

Which would've been the only explanation necessary to justify her behavior OYL, of course DC is stupid.

But it's obviously too much to ask of DC to keep track of their own continuity.

 

[trustyside-kick]

How would throwing their bodies into a Lazarus Pit even do anything to them other than get them wet? The only thing Lazarus Pits damage are perfectly healthy people. Corpses aren't exactly known for their healthy tissue. The threat was clearly (to me, anyway) that Ra's would resurrect Bruce's parents, which would be probably the worst violation conceivable for Bruce, so it seems the Lazarus Pits were retconned as resurrection devices before even Infinite Crisis.

I don't think the threat was to bring them back to life. I really do think it was to further piss off Bats.

Wouldn't it bother you that someone digged up your dead parent's graves, and then threatened to toss them somewhere where you couldn't followed unless you died? The fact alone that he violated the graves and made that threat is all about disrespect. And since Batman is Batman because of his parent's death...I'd say it would be 34987543298754 times worse for Bats to experience this; it's a perfect threat to use against him. I think that's a lot worse of a threat than "possibly him doing so to bring them back". Batman knowing that he can never visit them in their grave would be far worse. He wouldn't be able to pay his respects the same; imagine not being able to do so.

It's the same concept as not giving someone a proper burial, but worse because it's his parents. Could bringing them back insane do some damage? Yes. But eventually they could regain their insanity. The shock of them being back would do good damage...but I doubt Ra's would do this because eventually they could be back to normal.

But I think long term never being able to pay his respects to his dead parents would be worse. Each passing year, that "anniversary" would be far worse to live through than just his parent's original death "anniversary".

Also, Cassandra Cain was restored to life through a Lazarus Pit pre-IC.

I thought she wasn't "dead" yet, and was restored as she was dying.

 

[SenseiofCheese]

I don't think the threat was to bring them back to life. I really do think it was to further piss off Bats.

Wouldn't it bother you that someone digged up your dead parent's graves, and then threatened to toss them somewhere where you couldn't followed unless you died? The fact alone that he violated the graves and made that threat is all about disrespect. And since Batman is Batman because of his parent's death...I'd say it would be 34987543298754 times worse for Bats to experience this; it's a perfect threat to use against him. I think that's a lot worse of a threat than "possibly him doing so to bring them back". Batman knowing that he can never visit them in their grave would be far worse. He wouldn't be able to pay his respects the same; imagine not being able to do so.
.

I disagree. I think it would be a LOT more disrespectful to bring them back.

But I'd like to know what you think about my previous point;

If Ra's only point was to violate and destroy his parent's bodies, why would he use a Lazarus Pit? Which, since he had prepared for the JLA arriving alongside Batman, would fall into their hands, making him lose a Lazarus Pit.
He could have threatened the corpses with a LOT of other things, so why risk one of his very precious Pits?

 

[trustyside-kick]

I disagree. I think it would be a LOT more disrespectful to bring them back.

But I'd like to know what you think about my previous point;

If Ra's only point was to violate and destroy his parent's bodies, why would he use a Lazarus Pit? Which, since he had prepared for the JLA arriving alongside Batman, would fall into their hands, making him lose a Lazarus Pit.
He could have threatened the corpses with a LOT of other things, so why risk one of his very precious Pits?

Because the only way to get the corpses out of the Pit would be to jump in; thus killing em. And with it being so sentimental to Batman, who knows he might lose rational thought and go with emotional and dive.

That, or just the fact like I said above: Batman would never be able to pay respect to his parents properly. I don't think you guys are grasping how hard that is for someone who lost a loved one, espeically a parent...

Another concept I would relate this would be: Would you rather have your loved one be headed, or have them die by just being stabbed? Be-headed would be far worse when it comes to respect and paying respects, and in general.

 

[SenseiofCheese]

Because the only way to get the corpses out of the Pit would be to jump in; thus killing em. And with it being so sentimental to Batman, who knows he might lose rational thought and go with emotional and dive.

That makes sense, but I don't think Ra's, of all of Batman's enemies, would ever dare underestimate Batman.

That, or just the fact like I said above: Batman would never be able to pay respect to his parents properly. I don't think you guys are grasping how hard that is for someone who lost a loved one, espeically a parent...

Yes I am, and I have.
I really understand where you're coming from, as I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't visit my mother's grave, but I just really believe that Ra's was threatening to bring them back.

I keep thinking back to when Wonder Girl was freaked out by Match, because he looked exactly like Connor, but it wasn't really him. It was a perversion.
And I think that's how Bruce would see his parents if they were revived. Their death is the biggest influence of his entire life, literally shaping it.

Does anyone remember Ion # 12?

Spoiler

When Kyle revived his mother after she died, but she told him that she wasn't supposed to be alive, that it was just her time. And if he kept her alive, she would be kind of a perversion of what she used to be.

The Waynes died protecting their son, and bringing them back to life via The Lazarus Pit would really pervert that.

I'm babbling, sorry, but I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts on this in to words.

 

[trustyside-kick]

I understand what you are saying. Perhaps the actual dialogue of that scene could help decide better...just I wouldn't rule out what I think could've been the reason. But the most logical and obvious reason would be what you guys are saying; I just prefer to try to look past it and analyze it more since the "why" was never said.

That being said...I still wish that Black Adam has gone mad and hallucinating and Isis isn't actually back. It isn't a dislike for her character, just I think it would be so much more potent, if he is imagining her the remainder of this mini, and when he realizes she isn't actually their, it would hit him hard. Perhaps it would help him discover the magic word.

I just really hope that this mini makes up for the crap that has been Countdown. The Black Adam cameo, and Mary Marvel in general is relaly pissing me off. The word could be "sorry" or "Shazam". Some argue for "sorry", others for "Shazam". Because why would he have even said "Shazam" when the lightning did come down. But then Mary using the lightning strike against that baby-demon thing wouldn't make sense cause the only word she says that is noticeable was "sorry". But that could have not been the classic "lighting bolt Shazam strike". She has more magic now, after all. But if it's "sorry", than it is messed up that the lightning has a delay...it's ****ing lightning...