The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man (First Reactions: Critics, Fans) (Spoiler Alert) - - - - - Part 14

[BLACKOUT][BLACKOUT][BLACKOUT]
Peter Parker is Spider-Man
[/BLACKOUT][/BLACKOUT][/BLACKOUT]
 
Actually no. You're thinking of Amazing Spider-Man issue #1, where Spider-Man's performing career comes to an end after he has the promoter write a check to "Spider-Man", but he can't cash it as he can't prove he's Spider-Man to the bank. Then JJJ writes his first editorial against Spider-Man, and the promoter refuses to let Spidey perform any more fearing the negative publicity.

In AF#15, Spidey is just plain full of himself, thinking he's now on top of the world and need not be pushed around by anyone, that he's looking out for #1 - "And that means me!" - when he ignores the cop's plea to stop the robber, then tells off the cop to boot (the cop even considers arresting Spidey for his defiance & attitude).

The "promoter refuses to pay Spidey money" bit was introduced in the 2002 movie IIRC. I don't think the 90s animated series did that; I think it stuck to the "full of himself" Spidey.

In think I saw that on TSSM. But what I was basically saying is that Peter feels like he's being ripped off, which is how felt in this movie. Same as when he couldn't continue with his wrestling career. The convience store robbery was simpler and something different. It flowed together nicely as well.
 
The spider sense warns him of the dangers he could face,not what the others will face.
The Lizard is much much more dangerous than thug with a gun,which is why Spidey could sense him from so far off

Make up your mind, dude. The Lizard on the bridge wasn't a danger he was facing.

And considering that Ben's killer is a- you know- killer that makes him just as great a threat as the Lizard. Taking a life is the same whether you do it with a gun or big scaly claws.

There are 100s of killers like that in NY city,for Peter having learnt his lesson,catching any single killer is as important as catching Ben's killer.He is not feuled by revenge anymore

No it isn't. Not to Peter. Ben's death is what keeps fueling him to go back out there, despite the danger, despite everything he loses in the process. If he's actually left things undone regarding Ben's killer he'd be even more crazed. Look at his portrayal in Spidey 3. Say what you want about that film- Peter's obsession with bringing down Marko was 100% accurate. If in TASM Peter cries to Gwen about his responsbility for the Lizard being out there, he'd feel every bit as guilty about Ben's killer being there.
 
Yet another reason I love this movie. It didn't hold my hand and tell me what I'm supposed to be feeling. It let the actors do it through subtlety and body language.

Exactly. Raimi failed in this area IMO.
 
Make up your mind, dude. The Lizard on the bridge wasn't a danger he was facing.

And considering that Ben's killer is a- you know- killer that makes him just as great a threat as the Lizard. Taking a life is the same whether you do it with a gun or big scaly claws.



No it isn't. Not to Peter. Ben's death is what keeps fueling him to go back out there, despite the danger, despite everything he loses in the process. If he's actually left things undone regarding Ben's killer he'd be even more crazed. Look at his portrayal in Spidey 3. Say what you want about that film- Peter's obsession with bringing down Marko was 100% accurate. If in TASM Peter cries to Gwen about his responsbility for the Lizard being out there, he'd feel every bit as guilty about Ben's killer being there.

Okay, come on now. You're just being ridiculous. Ben's killer is as big a threat as the Lizard? By you're logic, since all killing is equal, a man with a knife is just as dangerous as a man strapped with tons of explosives. Sure, the guy with explosives will level a city block and kill ten times as many people, but killing is killing.:whatever:

And it's not just Ben's death that fuels Peter. Yes, the death is a part of it, but the death is the deciding factor that makes him realize he needs to use his powers for good. Great responsibility and all.

I'm sure he feels guilty about Ben's killer being out there, but as I've said in the other threads, he may NEVER find Ben's killer, and the lesson Peter learned was that it would be irresponsible to ignore other crimes to only search for his uncle's killer.
 
Make up your mind, dude. The Lizard on the bridge wasn't a danger he was facing.

And considering that Ben's killer is a- you know- killer that makes him just as great a threat as the Lizard. Taking a life is the same whether you do it with a gun or big scaly claws.

From what would spider sense freak out more,a puny thug with a gun or a huge ass lizard??



No it isn't. Not to Peter. Ben's death is what keeps fueling him to go back out there, despite the danger, despite everything he loses in the process.
No,it his speech about Responsibility and what his father stood for
 
Actually, I think it was quite clear that Peter was reacting to the police sirens picking up the Captain, not some advance Spider sense.
 
Okay, come on now. You're just being ridiculous. Ben's killer is as big a threat as the Lizard? By you're logic, since all killing is equal, a man with a knife is just as dangerous as a man strapped with tons of explosives. Sure, the guy with explosives will level a city block and kill ten times as many people, but killing is killing.:whatever:

So, he shouldn't stop the guy with a knife? Suppose the guy with the knife is the one that kills someone you love- are you going to be more concerned about the guy with the explosives?

And stop with the strawman nonsense. This is FICTION. The story will be structured in whatever way the writer/director chooses to have. Spidey could stop the guy with the explosives and the knife at the same time if the director chose to present it.

And it's not just Ben's death that fuels Peter. Yes, the death is a part of it, but the death is the deciding factor that makes him realize he needs to use his powers for good. Great responsibility and all.

It's the main thing. When in ASM #50 he chooses to quit- it's the image of his Uncle Ben that reminds him why he can never give-up. This isn't something objective for Peter. It's personal.

I'm sure he feels guilty about Ben's killer being out there, but as I've said in the other threads, he may NEVER find Ben's killer, and the lesson Peter learned was that it would be irresponsible to ignore other crimes to only search for his uncle's killer.

Okay- Again. FICTION. Not reality. These stories are written. The director can (and has) presented a compelling story about how Peter finds the guy- either by accident or invention. Twist of fate or obsessive pursuit. That's the way it was told 50 years ago, and it should be told now, just as sure as having a spider bite Peter on... the.. neck :whatever:
 
Actually, I think it was quite clear that Peter was reacting to the police sirens picking up the Captain, not some advance Spider sense.

First, you hear the spider sense. Second- How would Peter know where the police cars are going? He arrives on the bridge before the police. Are we to believe that in the is film he develops super spider hearing as well?
 
Last edited:
From what would spider sense freak out more,a puny thug with a gun or a huge ass lizard??

The one that was closest to Peter, obviously. and the guy with the gun was closer. I mean, this is pointless, since Peter's spider sense absoultely does not alert him to anything that isn't an imminent threat. so no matter how you slice it, the film created yet another plot hole. One of so, so many.




No,it his speech about Responsibility and what his father stood for

Read the comics. Peter has constantly reconnected to his mission because of memories of Ben. That comes along with the speech. But without Ben Peter would have disregarded the speech.
 
Okay- Again. FICTION. Not reality. These stories are written. The director can (and has) presented a compelling story about how Peter finds the guy- either by accident or invention. Twist of fate or obsessive pursuit. That's the way it was told 50 years ago, and it should be told now, just as sure as having a spider bite Peter on... the.. neck :whatever:

Now you just sound like one those generic nerds who's main complaint is always "That's not how it happened in the COMICS!".
things change, get used to it. 50 years ago is half a century. Just read the original comics compared to the comics today. They're poorly written. They don't go into detail all that much. He went from being a nerd to being bitten by the spider to founding out about his powers in just 3-4 pages.
Stop acting like there's only ONE way these things can be done. :whatever:
 
For me, the most glaring flaw in the film was how Uncle Ben's death was dealt with. Peter allows a man to rob a store, but unlike Spider-Man (2002) he has not been dealt with unfairly. In that film it is understandable why Peter lets the robber go; 'I'll let criminals deal with other criminals, if you want protection, you should do the right thing'. In The Amazing Spider-Man Peter's just like "Free milk? Ok". Then Ben gets shot. Why? Because he was trying to be the hero. Unlike Spider-Man (2002) which stresses the 'If you can prevent something, you ought to', the reprocussions being innocent people being hurt, here Ben tries to prevent the robbery, assuming that he could, and gets shot. If anything this says 'Look, if mind your own business you won't get shot in the chest'. Obviously Peter reflects on this at Uncle Ben's grave ... oh wait, that didn't happen. When Gwen's basically saying "Hey, you should have gone to my fathers funeral" Peter ought to of said "Where were you when Uncle Ben died? Dreaming of chocolate houses I bet, you insincere ...."

While on the topic of death, Captain Stacy has a dying wish. 'Peter, don't get Gwen involved in your craziness'. Peter sticks with this promise ... for all of 5 minutes, before retorting 'Some promises are hard to keep'. No, Peter, you promised that man in his final moments. You can't just brush something away like that. That isn't heroic, it's just lying. To a dying man. Who saved your life.

And about lies, what's with Peter going 'Yeah I have this equation (that I totally didn't steal from my fathers handbook) that should solve your problems, Dr. Connors'. Why lie about something like that? To feel important?
 
The one that was closest to Peter, obviously. and the guy with the gun was closer. I mean, this is pointless, since Peter's spider sense absoultely does not alert him to anything that isn't an imminent threat. so no matter how you slice it, the film created yet another plot hole. One of so, so many.
That's not even remotely true. For someone who tells others to read the comics, you could use some brushing up yourself. Especially early on, Spider-Sense was used for... basically everything. He'd get a light tingle if someone bad walked by. He often tracked supervillains by using his Spider-Sense like a radar. His Spider-Sense let him know if anyone was watching him, so that he could get changed in and out of the costume. His Spider-Sense lets him navigate in the dark. Etc.
 
That's not even remotely true. For someone who tells others to read the comics, you could use some brushing up yourself. Especially early on, Spider-Sense was used for... basically everything. He'd get a light tingle if someone bad walked by. He often tracked supervillains by using his Spider-Sense like a radar. His Spider-Sense let him know if anyone was watching him, so that he could get changed in and out of the costume. His Spider-Sense lets him navigate in the dark. Etc.

while I agree with this it should have warned him about the guy with his Uncle.
However in this movie it was almost non existent as the Lizard snuck up on him and he was shot
 
while I agree with this it should have warned him about the guy with his Uncle.
However in this movie it was almost non existent as the Lizard snuck up on him and he was shot
Lizard sneaking up on him was dramatic effect. There's no tension if your hero can't ever be touched. Also, Spidey cocks his head a second before Lizard enters the frame. Methinks the ol' Spidey-Sense was a second late. Getting shot, well, I think his Spider-Sense was buzzing like crazy at that point in time. With the threat of the Lizard, the police, and Gwen's life (potentially) hanging in the balance, it might've been hard to parse out the buzz for, "Oh, s***. Bullet's coming at you."

It wasn't non-existent, though. It went off before the bridge and when Peter saw the lizards crawling into the sewer.
 
did the lizard ever sneak up on spiderman wiithout him knowing? even in the sewer he tilts his head and looks round so he knows the lizard is there

and to be fair if his spider sense ment he could avoid gun fire so damn easy then wouldnt that mean the lizard shouldnt be able to hurt spiderman? spidey should be able to dodge every blow, if that logic is right? but then you could easy say its a result of him being tased

and as for his spider sense going on during the police sirens, well whats wrong with his spidey sense going off cus he hears them? surely he would take that as a sign there is danger or something wrong
 
Last edited:
did the lizard ever sneak up on spiderman wiithout him knowing? even in the sewer he tilts his head and looks round so he knows the lizard is there

and to be fair if his spider sense ment he could avoid gun fire so damn easy then wouldnt that mean the lizard shouldnt be able to hurt spiderman? spidey should be able to dodge every blow, if that logic is right? but then you could easy say its a result of him being tased

and as for his spider sense going on during the police sirens, well whats wrong with his spidey sense going off cus he hears them? surely he would take that as a sign there is danger or something wrong

I was thinking the same thing about the lizard. He turned his head so you could argue it either didn't go off or it went off just in the right time. He got hit with the taser because they surrounded him and he really didn't have anywhere else to go. With him getting shot, he was leaping in the air and the gun went off, at least to my knowledge, so it'd be a simultaneous thing, unless I'm wrong
 
I posted this in the "character arc" thread, so I'll reiterate here:


I couldn't disagree more.

I thought that the way that they handled the death of Uncle Ben was absolutely beautiful and powerful. To take an event that everyone sees from a mile away and still make it powerful, is no easy task.

I'll elaborate...

Ben and Peter argue. Ben tells him about responsibility and that if he is in the position to help a person, it is his moral responsibility to do so. This speech is compounded with the speech Ben gives Peter at school in an earlier scene where he tells Peter that life isn't about revenge or "getting even."

Peter storms out and walks around the neighborhood -- angry at his Uncle, but more angry at the fact that his own Father isn't alive to give him this speech.

Ben goes out searching for Peter, calling him on his phone with no answer... He leaves a voicemail.

Peter goes to a connivence store, has a disagreement with the clerk, the clerk is robbed, and the thief runs into the street. Peter then sees the thief knock into his Uncle Ben, and a gun falls free. Ben sees the gun and sees that he has a chance to grab it and help the innocent bystanders, and acts on what he believes is his responsibility. Ben struggles with the thief for the gun. Peter watches, stunned, as the thief gets the better of Ben and fires of a fatal shot. Ben dies in Peter's arms...

Peter then ignores everything that Ben has taught him. Consumed by rage and anger, Peter uses his newfound power only to avenge the death of his Uncle. He acts selfishly and recklessly.

At the Stacy's house is where he is put in his place by George, and he begins to realize just how silly and selfish he is being. And that as much as he tries to justify what he is doing -- there is no escaping the fact that he is doing just what Uncle Ben warned him not to do. It's "not about getting even," it's not about revenge. And the powers he has aren't to be used for his own gain -- it's his moral obligation to help others with them... his responsibility.

The lesson sinks in and is set in stone when he is fighting the Lizard on the bridge. He has the opportunity to pursue the Lizard but is torn by the plea of a father to save his son. Upon saving the child, and seeing him reunited with his father, he understands what Ben meant and totally takes the lesson to heart. He goes from "that spider guy" and becomes "Spider-man."

The voicemail at the end -- when he listens to it in full is just symbolic of the lesson. Right after Ben's death, Peter played the message, but shut it off prematurely, he wasn't ready to hear those words yet -- he was still clouded by rage and acting selfishly. He wanted to kill only his own pain, that's all. By the film's end he has accepted his responsibility as a hero to the city and it's symbolized and reaffirmed by him now being able and ready to hear Ben's message out.

It's truly a great arc, and a beautiful moment in the film.

I hope maybe you see it a little more for what it is, and maybe I've swayed you... If not, you enjoy 2002's Spider-man. It's also a great version of the origin, and a favorite film of mine -- this was just better, I think.

-R

That's all well and good in establishing how Peter finally comes to learn "with great power comes great responsibility" or rather in case of this film "if you have the means to help others, it's your responsibility to do so." However, the critic is not saying Peter doesn't learn that lesson; he saying that film, in his opinion, the film oesn't adequately stress that Peter blames himself for his Uncle's death, which should be his primary motivation for being Spider-Man. In the comments section to his review, someone actually brings up a similar point about Peter's conversation with Captain Stacy helps him to understand the lesson of "with great power comes great responsibility," and the critic responses as follows:

It doesn’t help.

The phrase “With great power comes great responsibility” was never actually put on Uncle Ben’s lips in the early comics, but that phrase is how Peter expressed his uncle’s moral lesson the moment he realized that his uncle’s killer was the man he had let go.

In the film, Peter understands the cause and effect from the get-go — but he never puts the moral pieces together, never has a moment of clarity where it hits him: “It’s because I failed to act when I had the power to do so that Uncle Ben is dead…therefore I must never again fail to use my power to protect others.”

It’s like Uncle Ben died (more precisely, like Peter caused Uncle Ben’s death) for nothing.
And when someone brings up the moment in which Peter listens to his Uncle's voice mail could be seen as an indication of Peter's guilt, his response is as follows:

You’re projecting onto scenes that could just as easily be read in terms of mere grief. It’s up to the filmmakers to make it clear that Peter feels more than grief, that he feels a weight of responsibility in connection with his uncle’s death.

In Raimi’s film, following the original comic-book story, that responsibility is brought him in the moment of revelation when Spider-Man sees the face of his uncle’s killer and realizes that it’s the same man he allowed to escape. Since there’s no comparable revelation in this film (Peter knows all along who killed his uncle), they needed to do something else. They didn’t.
That's the point the critic is making: that Peter doesn't learn the lesson of "with great power comes great responsibility" as a result from his realization that he is partly to blame for his Uncle's murder and thus feels he needs to make amends for failing to do the right thing.
 
The thing is that in the comics it's actually gradual process as well.

Amazing Fantasy ends with the line with great power comes great responsibility but in Amazing Spider-Man 1 he only says John Jameson so that Jonah will stop creating bad press for him and he can go back to performing for money, he only goes after the Vulture so he can sell pictures. He only goes after the Lizard because the Jonah challenges him to.

It takes awhile for him to be the altruistic hero.
 
The thing is that in the comics it's actually gradual process as well.

Amazing Fantasy ends with the line with great power comes great responsibility but in Amazing Spider-Man 1 he only says John Jameson so that Jonah will stop creating bad press for him and he can go back to performing for money, he only goes after the Vulture so he can sell pictures. He only goes after the Lizard because the Jonah challenges him to.

It takes awhile for him to be the altruistic hero.
True. Also, it doesn't have to do with power/responsibility, but when Peter catches Gwen on the bridge, he immediately starts patting himself on the back for being such a resourceful superhero. He's cocky and arrogant, and it isn't until he gets a good look at Gwen that he realizes that he messed up.
 
Loved just about everything except the fact that they never again mentioned anything about Ben's killer. Seriously, it felt like a loose string that they never tie. One minute he is searching for the killer, the next minute Lizzy is the focus and they never mention the killer again. At the very least, they could have said Uncle Ben's killer was in custody.
 
Ok...how much longer are we going to have to hear people whining about the fact that the killer wasn't brought to justice in this movie? This is CLEARLY a plot thread that will continue into the next film. Peter CLEARLY hasn't forgotten about him, as evidenced by the sketch in his bedroom toward the end of the film.

Also, I don't think the film showed that Peter feels responsible for his Uncle Ben's death...because he may well not.

He didn't kill Uncle Ben. Nor is Uncle Ben choosing to go out to look for Peter and to confront the robber actually Peter's fault.

I'm sick to death of superhero movies where the heroes blame themselves for someone else's actions and we get all this forced drama that overshadows real emotional issues.

It's powerful enough that Peter recognizes that with his powers, he COULD have done something, and Ben could still be alive, and that he recognizes that he can do this for others, and that this leads to him becoming a hero. And that he misses Ben, and regrets their last encounter.

That's a much better reason for being a hero than simply feeling guilty over something you didn't do.
 
Ok...how much longer are we going to have to hear people whining baout the fact that the killer wasn't brought to justice? This is CLEARLY a plot thread that will continue into the next film. Peter CLEARLY hasn't forgotten about him, as evidenced by the sketch in his bedroom toward the end of the film.

Also, I don't think the film showed that Peter feels responsible for his Uncle Ben's death...because he may well not.

He didn't kill the guy.

I'm sick to death of superhero movies where the heroes blame themselves for someone else's actions.

It's powerful enough that Peter recognizes that with his powers, he COULD have done something, and Ben could still be alive, and that he recognizes that he can do this for others, and that this leads to him becoming a hero. And that he misses Ben, and regrets their last encounter.

That's a much better reason for being a hero than simply feeling guilty over something you didn't do.
I wouldn't say that, but I do have faith that the thread won't be dropped completely. We'll have to see when TASM2 comes out.
 
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"