Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - - - - - Part 51

[Tacit Ronin]

I knew it. The flaws in the movie were too unwhedonistic. They were blatant executive meddling. Unlike, say, TDKR, which were all Nolan's personal indulgences.

 

[Huddsy]

No, I got the movie just fine. Her breaking down and using an 18th century mindset to value herself isn't being a strong female character. In an actual scene she boils down her worth to her [BLACKOUT]inability to have children[/BLACKOUT]. That sound like the Black Widow we have seen?

No you didn't, because she didn't value herself based on her vagina's ability to reproduce.

Does Sansa Stark using the fact she knows LittleFinger deeply desires her when she walks down the staircase in a provactive outfit seem like the Sansa we knew to that point? It was a growth and change in the character because CHARACTERS CHANGE.

If after umpteen Avengers movies, Natasha was the same character that walked in on Stark and Happy boxing, than that would be a failure.

 

[Marchesk]

The critics are correct when they say the execution of it in the film, doesn't make the relationship convincing. Had they tried to give hints that the two had some interest in each other before AOU alot more people would have bought it. Even if they hadn't , had the script could have done had it executed that storyline better. Again, the idea's aren't the problem. Its how you convey them in a way that the audience can buy it .

This. It came out of nowhere and the chemistry between the two actors just wasn't convincing for a romance. It made me wince for both characters. Done right, it could have worked, but it seemed like Hawkeye or Cap would have made for better chemistry. And it's something that needed to develop over a couple films, not just come full fledged out of nowhere.

That part of the movie was painful.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Hulk's secret makes it clear. He is always angry, and thus learned to control his very nature. He is clearly thinking as the Hulk in the final battle of TA. Able to control his reactions and abilities. Why do they suddenly need the lullaby? It makes sense when he is forced into a change.

he needs the lullaby because it helps him turn back.... we didn't see him turn back in Avengers.. it might not of been an easy (nor a controlled task at all) in-fact.. we can now assume it was not. that also being said.. from what we know of Hulk in his iconic comic and tv history.. is hulk tend to go with the flow WHEN HE WANTS TO... if Hulk doesn't want to partake.. he's uncontrollable.

Are you ignoring my words? Her having feelings is great. Brilliant. How they did it is the problem. It did not match her nature in the least. Cap when he falls for Peggy, is still Cap. He does not intrinsically change. He is same guy we know and love. Same for Tony, Thor and Hawkeye. They keep their essence and don't change principally. This also illustrate this beautifully with Peggy, is by far their most 3D character. Natasha is the opposite in AoU.

are YOU not reading my words? she didn't change at all.. we just saw a softer side of her... do you know why cap didn't look like he changed? because cap is always a softy.. unlike widow.. who's always in "badass mode" so anything that deviates from that is going to seem different. she's a very guarded character.. it's obvious in every film she's in. This is the first time she let those walls down... it was very natural.. though, some elements were indeed rushed (though to be fair, whedon did make like a 3.5hr film originally...

To use a classic example, Mr. Darcy. He loves Elizabeth with all his being, but his nature is different then others. He doesn't show love in the same way. Another even more relevant explain, is Orphan Black. Where we see multiple different women with same exact DNA expressing their feelings, including love, in different ways, because they are different people.

so... Widow isn't allowed to act like a different person because of feelings? is that what you're saying? because i can name plenty of people who do... Hell we noticed Tony Stark change when his feelings for Pepper came into the story...

You sir, do not read.

i read quite fine, thank you . It's you who i'm concerned about

 

[connor_in]

She becomes a love sick puppy, more worried about her relationship then the mission. Then her real friends. She is more concerned with her standing as a woman then a person. Widow in the past never based her self worth on her sex, and now suddenly she does? And why? Because she is in love. I adore Widow in this film outside of her scenes with Banner, which funnily enough contradict her scenes with Banner.

No, I got the movie just fine. Her breaking down and using an 18th century mindset to value herself isn't being a strong female character. In an actual scene she boils down her worth to her [BLACKOUT]inability to have children[/BLACKOUT]. That sound like the Black Widow we have seen?

Wait, huh, what...?

To paraphrase Hawkeye from TA, "You and I remember AoU very differently"

 

[MahvelBaby!]

Still love this movie and still think it's better than the first,

And marvel wasn't pushing for the farmhouse sequence he was...it was why he got rid of the thor cave sequence . I love the farmhouse sequence though personally.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Wait, huh, what...?

To paraphrase Hawkeye from TA, "You and I remember AoU very differently"

 

[The Shape]

Good. Pretty much everything Marvel pushed for was weak. Hey, if you're done with Marvel, then I support Joss's decision to let it all out.

He shouldn't be "letting it all out" roughly two weeks after HIS film was released worldwide.

That's a little petty and, as both a grown man and professional filmmaker, he should have been able to hold his tongue a little while longer instead of essentially bad-mouthing the studio that allowed him to make two of the biggest movies ever (and also made him very, very rich).

 

[The_Manhunter]

Thought you guys would be interested in this article if you haven't seen it already:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/joss-whedon-avengers-age-ultron-793502

 

[Huddsy]

Still love this movie and still think it's better than the first,

I was starting to think I was the only one.

 

[Marchesk]

Does Sansa Stark using the fact she knows LittleFinger deeply desires her when she walks down the staircase in a provactive outfit seem like the Sansa we knew to that point? It was a growth and change in the character because CHARACTERS CHANGE. .

Difference being that Sansa's growth made sense given what her character has been through, and that as far as she knows, she's the only surviving Stark. Characters change, but change should make sense given a characters established personality and what they've been through.

 

[The_Manhunter]

I never said there wasn't tension. I said people were blowing the Coulson is still dead comment out of proportion, and that was pretty obvious by his sarcastic comment about AoS being a dream sequence, and his "uh oh, spoiler alert."

I said from the start, Joss is a recluse and more of an independent film maker. I think he loves working with the cast and writing (more than directing), and he wants to go do his own thing. He was offered IW, he turned it down, he wasn't fired.

Having said that, even if you're right, it's always best to take the high road. IMO, saying this stuff now makes him look bad, not Marvel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ04OLA7gm4

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No you didn't, because she didn't value herself based on her [BLACKOUT]vagina's ability to reproduce[/BLACKOUT].

Does Sansa Stark using the fact she knows LittleFinger deeply desires her when she walks down the staircase in a provactive outfit seem like the Sansa we knew to that point? It was a growth and change in the character because CHARACTERS CHANGE.

If after umpteen Avengers movies, Natasha was the same character that walked in on Stark and Happy boxing, than that would be a failure.

How hard is it to cover up spoilers? Can you read the thread title?

You do realize that Sansa Stark isn't being genuine there right? That is the point. Her using Littlefinger's desire is the exact opposite of what we are talking about. Sansa has taken what she has learned and is now using it. That is something Widow would do.

Natasha tears up a bit when she and Cap are having their conversation in TWS. She is genuine in this moment, but it wouldn't have mattered if she was a man or woman in that scene. Her relationship with Cap elevates beyond typical Hollywood stereotypes. That is character growth and is the exact opposite of her relationship with Bruce, which reverts to classic stereotypes that don't match what has come before with Natasha.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

I kind of felt there was some chemistry between Banner and widows characters in A1, the way they talk to each other in the beginning and at the end when Bruce comes on the bike before he hulks out. I don't know maybe it was just me, but I kind of felt there could be something there, the problem is Winter soldier came in between lol.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

No, I got the movie just fine. Her breaking down and using an 18th century mindset to value herself isn't being a strong female character. In an actual scene she boils down her worth to her [BLACKOUT]inability to have children[/BLACKOUT]. That sound like the Black Widow we have seen?

oh lord... did you even watch the movie?

she responded to Banner... saying she couldn't have kids, because in the context, it sounded like that's what banner wanted... there was nothing "18th century about that.. this is so skewed out of proportion it's beyond ridiculous

 

[Supernova]

Thought you guys would be interested in this article if you haven't seen it already:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/joss-whedon-avengers-age-ultron-793502

Beat you 2 pages back but glad Im not the only who noticed this.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Still love this movie and still think it's better than the first,

And marvel wasn't pushing for the farmhouse sequence he was...it was why he got rid of the thor cave sequence . I love the farmhouse sequence though personally.

I think it is much better then the first. But I hate the Nat/Bruce scenes and relationship.

 

[Huddsy]

Difference being that Sansa's growth made sense given what her character has been through, and that as far as she knows, she's the only surviving Stark. Characters change, but change should make sense given a characters established personality and what they've been through.

How hard is it to cover up spoilers? Can you read the thread title?

You do realize that Sansa Stark isn't being genuine there right? That is the point. Her using Littlefinger's desire is the exact opposite of what we are talking about. Sansa has taken what she has learned and is now using it. That is something Widow would do.

Natasha tears up a bit when she and Cap are having their conversation in TWS. She is genuine in this moment, but it wouldn't have mattered if she was a man or woman in that scene. Her relationship with Cap elevates beyond typical Hollywood stereotypes. That is character growth and is the exact opposite of her relationship with Bruce, which reverts to classic stereotypes that don't match what has come before with Natasha.

A spy who's been through torture and considered just an asset, who makes her first real friends and becomes a member of a team, wouldn't start to show what's under the hard external wall she's put up?

O-kay.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I kind of felt there was some chemistry between Banner and widows characters in A1, the way they talk to each other in the beginning and at the end when Bruce comes on the bike before he hulks out. I don't know maybe it was just me, but I kind of felt there could be something there, the problem is Winter soldier came in between lol.

quite alot saw that.. and there were many posters on here pushing for it...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

oh lord... did you even watch the movie?

she responded to Banner... saying she couldn't have kids, because in the context, it sounded like that's what banner wanted... there was nothing "18th century about that.. this is so skewed out of proportion it's beyond ridiculous

Yes I watched it. I know what Banner said. I also saw the rest of the scene and the context is clear and obvious. Did you see Natasha reaction?

 

[Jaspertian1105]

The relationship with Widow made no sense at all, never seen before in the comics and in film it didn't work plus there was no chemistry. She needs no man to make her feel better about herself, she has that strength already. And besides were is Betty Ross? way to be a lousy cheater Banner, you could at least acknowledge that you loved someone else deeply before.

And BAnner still doesnt talk when he is the hulk, why this regression? how can we know what is he feeling if he doesnt express himself and is just a brute

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A spy who's been through torture and considered just an asset, who makes her first real friends and becomes a member of a team, wouldn't start to show what's under the hard external wall she's put up?

O-kay.

Do me a favor and watch Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Watch the character of Rosa. She is the perfect example of what I am talking about. She is a hardass who is falling in love. The relationship changes and affects her, but it does not betrayal her character.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Am I the only one who was completely OK with the [BLACKOUT]Hulk/Widow romance?[/BLACKOUT]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I kind of felt there was some chemistry between Banner and widows characters in A1, the way they talk to each other in the beginning and at the end when Bruce comes on the bike before he hulks out. I don't know maybe it was just me, but I kind of felt there could be something there, the problem is Winter soldier came in between lol.

My favorite scene in the first film is their first scene together. I like the dance. That was completely lost this time around.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yes I watched it. I know what Banner said. I also saw the rest of the scene and the context is clear and obvious. Did you see Natasha reaction?

YEAH because she thought that's what bruce wanted.. and ishe knew it was something she couldn't provide him.... and that scared her... NEWFLASH .. that's how most people feel when they are in love with someone and feel that they can't give the person what they want... kids or not. it was not a reflection of her self-worth at all. it was about wanting to provide someone she cared about with what she thought they wanted..

have you never been in a relationship before where you felt you couldn't make the person you cared about happy?

that moment went away when she realized he didn't mean that nor could have kids himself...