Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

[marcvader]

Coulda sworn the schematics were for Arnim Zolas robotic body.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Coulda sworn the schematics were for Arnim Zolas robotic body.

Nah, it was the entire body .....

 

[marcvader]

I know but you had mentioned it being for MODOK before you edited it.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I know but you had mentioned it being for MODOK before you edited it.

It was a mind fart. Did not mean to type MODOK. It's not the first time I've done it. LOL

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Feel free to apply that scenario to the MCU (Pym-less) Avengers in any way you see fit.

I find it really funny how my entire point just flew over your head Oh the joys of setting people up without them knowing.

Does anyone not see the irony here?

Why would they do this? Some sort of "craft project" on their days off?

"Hey guys, let's get together and build a killer robot"
"Yay! Sounds like fun"

Hank Pym did it because he was inspired by the mad scientist who created Dragon Man to build his own robot; because he had become somewhat of an expert on cybernetics after building the Ant-Man helmet that allowed him to communicate with ants; and he did it by literally infusing the robot with his own badly damaged brain engrams that caused Ultron to go permanently psycho from the get-go.

 

[Hyde]

There were schematics for his robot body in C:TFA.

I must've missed the rest of the discussion, but how on Earth is Ultron a creation of the entire Avengers group??? Can't wait to hear this one. We already know from The Avengers that the World Security Council and parts of the American government are not sold on the Avengers. They do not appreciate the damage they caused New York City. We'll even get to see in T:TDW that more damage is caused on Earth indirectly by another member of the Avengers. It makes simply too much sense that Ultron is born of a desire to protect Earth without requiring the use of the Avengers.

Then there's also the fact that it's likely in C:TWS, SHIELD gets infiltrated. We already saw the Vice President working with AIM in IM3. Wouldn't you think they'd want to utilize Ultron for their own purposes?

I agree with you, of course they would. However that's not what should happen. If it does, Ultron becomes another killer robot. Literally. Doing that strips the rest of what makes him interesting - Pym is already gone, the Oedius complex and him becoming sentient/insane is the only thing left. Take that away, you've got something uninspired that we've seen a million times before.

 

[AlexanderLykins]

Why could Zola not have that kind of importance? He's the only character we know to be in C:TWS that we'd assume could develop advanced robotics systems based on what we know from the comics.



I never want to see that corny Oedipus Complex stuff on screen.

I don't want to see it either. But he wanted a guess on how or why Ultron goes nuts. The only explanation we get in the comics in the Oedipus Complex. Otherwise it's just because and no eccentric Marvel wants Ultron to go bad just because it happens. You get what I'm saying?

 

[The Question]

What's wrong with the Oedipal complex? As long as it's kept relatively simple (he hated his creator and is attracted to his creator's love interest) then it's what distinguishes him from Skynet.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I agree with you, of course they would. However that's not what should happen. If it does, Ultron becomes another killer robot. Literally. Doing that strips the rest of what makes him interesting - Pym is already gone, the Oedius complex and him becoming sentient/insane is the only thing left. Take that away, you've got something uninspired that we've seen a million times before.

Well see I'm a person who wishes they would avoid the robot thing altogether. Never been a fan of them as the antagonist in films ("I, Robot" anyone ). Also as I previously stated, I find the Oedipus Complex story very corny.

....... but inevitably Ultron is going to be sentient. There are too many clues for it not to be. How can they modify that to make it unique in order to separate it from previous robot movies? Will there be a continuation of the government infiltration into A:AOU (since we know C:TWS is the biggest bridge) with other antagonists in the movie? There's going to be a transition. A:AOU is an origin story per Feige and that means we're not getting the robot form from the get go.

 

[Rock Sexton]

What's wrong with the Oedipal complex? As long as it's kept relatively simple (he hated his creator and is attracted to his creator's love interest) then it's what distinguishes him from Skynet.

C'mon bro, a robot wanting to be in love with or bang his human mother?

Like I said, corny. While other suggestions haven't been made to create an intriguing Ultron unrelated to Pym, doesn't mean there can't be something. It's almost like you're suggesting it's all or nothing. Either you get Skynet or you get Ultron from the comics.

 

[AlexanderLykins]

What's wrong with the Oedipal complex? As long as it's kept relatively simple (he hated his creator and is attracted to his creator's love interest) then it's what distinguishes him from Skynet.

Nothing at all. I think most people would like to see a nice mix though and not one or the other. This question all stems from the idea of why Ultron goes bad. Can anyone really answer that question? Why does Ultron go bad?

 

[Hyde]

Well see I'm a person who wishes they would avoid the robot thing altogether. Never been a fan of them as the antagonist in films ("I, Robot" anyone ). Also as I previously stated, I find the Oedipus Complex story very corny.

....... but inevitably Ultron is going to be sentient. There are too many clues for it not to be. How can they modify that to make it unique in order to separate it from previous robot movies? Will there be a continuation of the government infiltration into A:AOU (since we know C:CWS is the biggest bridge) with other antagonists in the movie?

Perhaps Pierce unearths it from the archives and advocates for it to be the replacement for the Avengers. It's a possibility but it stills just makes Ultron another killer robot.

However, if it's TONY that finds it, possibly utilizing a Howard Stark connection, that keeps the essence of Ultron while still changing some things, which is what Marvel Studios is all about.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Perhaps Pierce unearths it from the archives and advocates for it to be the replacement for the Avengers. It's a possibility but it stills just makes Ultron another killer robot.

When you portray it as black and white as that of course ..... but you're describing it that way on purpose to support your thesis.

However, if it's TONY that finds it, possibly utilizing a Howard Stark connection, that keeps the essence of Ultron while still changing some things, which is what Marvel Studios is all about.

Right. Form fitting and merging concepts it to keep the essence in tact.

 

[Hyde]

When you portray it as black and white as that of course ..... but you're describing it that way on purpose to support your thesis.



Right. Form fitting and merging concepts it to keep the essence in tact.

Well, that is how it is. A villain (probably) takes an old AI project and brings it back into the spotlight, and in the process it becomes sentient and attempts to destroy the world. Sure, they could introduce some Oediplus complex or something akin to that to have with Pierce or whoever but it seems kind of pointless.

And I say all this as someone who isn't really a fan of "merging concepts" and have Tony as the creator.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Well, that is how it is. A villain (probably) takes an old AI project and brings it back into the spotlight, and in the process it becomes sentient and attempts to destroy the world. Sure, they could introduce some Oediplus complex or something akin to that to have with Pierce or whoever but it seems kind of pointless.

And I say all this as someone who isn't really a fan of "merging concepts" and have Tony as the creator.

The reason Ultron would want to destroy the world is definitely up for debate. Based on the narrative Feige has presided over most of these movies in the MCU, I just have a really tough time buying a psychoanalytical theory of Sigmund Freud as the over-arching theme.

Since they're not planning any IM individual films between A2 and A3, you do have to wonder what the Stark relationship to Ultron is.

 

[AlexanderLykins]

The reason Ultron would want to destroy the world is definitely up for debate. Based on the narrative Feige has presided over most of these movies in the MCU, I just have a really tough time buying a psychoanalytical theory of Sigmund Freud as the over-arching theme.

Since they're not planning any IM individual films between A2 and A3, you do have to wonder what the Stark relationship to Ultron is.

Meaning Stark's relationship to Ultron is likely a big deal? Many have speculated that the only reason Robert Downey Jr. has returned is because they making him a central part of the story.

Regarding the reason for Ultron's motives. Maybe he is much like Skynet and believes the only way to save humanity is to destroy it. Ultron also has a deep hate for the Avengers so you throw that in as well.

 

[The Question]

C'mon bro, a robot wanting to be in love with or bang his human mother?

Describing the thing you don't like isn't the same thing as explaining why it's bad.

Either you get Skynet or you get Ultron from the comics.

And Ultron from the comics has a personal vendetta against his creator and is obsessed with his creator's love interest.

Nothing at all. I think most people would like to see a nice mix though and not one or the other. This question all stems from the idea of why Ultron goes bad. Can anyone really answer that question? Why does Ultron go bad?

Honestly, it's a little under explained. The best answer we every got was that because Ultron's personality is based off of Pym's brain scans, he inherited his creator's mental illness and that made him evil. How being bipolar and having a poor self image makes him want to exterminate the human race isn't very clear. I mean, it's not like Pym wants to do those things.

The best possible explanation for that that I can think of is that Ultron came into existence with adult levels of intelligence and Pym's mood swings and poor self image, but no experiences or emotional framework to put those terrible feelings into context. Basically the first thing he ever felt was depression and extreme self loathing without any kind of context for that or any kind of happy memories or positive things in his life to balance that out. So, he immediately resented his creator for making him such a flawed being and burdening him with awful feelings he couldn't understand and promptly set out to do whatever he could to punish his father for it. And ultimately he decided that murdering as many people as possible and making Pym and all of Pym's loved ones watch was the best punishment imaginable.

But I don't think it's ever been spelled out quite that way in the comics, I've never seen that, that's just the best way I could think of that would rationalize Ultron's motivations. If they keep his creation tied to an acting Avenger, if they make Tony his creator, who knows if they choose to explain his turn to the dark side in that manner. It seems like the best explanation to me but that's just me, Whedon may interpret the character in a wholly different way.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Meaning Stark's relationship to Ultron is likely a big deal? Many have speculated that the only reason Robert Downey Jr. has returned is because they making him a central part of the story.

Regarding the reason for Ultron's motives. Maybe he is much like Skynet and believes the only way to save humanity is to destroy it. Ultron also has a deep hate for the Avengers so you throw that in as well.

I mean think about it .... does anyone really think RDJ would come back just to be lower man on the totem pole when it comes to screen time and plot significance? I just don't see that happening.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Describing the thing you don't like isn't the same thing as explaining why it's bad.



And Ultron from the comics has a personal vendetta against his creator and is obsessed with his creator's love interest.



Honestly, it's a little under explained. The best answer we every got was that because Ultron's personality is based off of Pym's brain scans, he inherited his creator's mental illness and that made him evil. How being bipolar and having a poor self image makes him want to exterminate the human race isn't very clear. I mean, it's not like Pym wants to do those things.

The best possible explanation for that that I can think of is that Ultron came into existence with adult levels of intelligence and Pym's mood swings and poor self image, but no experiences or emotional framework to put those terrible feelings into context. Basically the first thing he ever felt was depression and extreme self loathing without any kind of context for that or any kind of happy memories or positive things in his life to balance that out. So, he immediately resented his creator for making him such a flawed being and burdening him with awful feelings he couldn't understand and promptly set out to do whatever he could to punish his father for it. And ultimately he decided that murdering as many people as possible and making Pym and all of Pym's loved ones watch was the best punishment imaginable.

But I don't think it's ever been spelled out quite that way in the comics, I've never seen that, that's just the best way I could think of that would rationalize Ultron's motivations. If they keep his creation tied to an acting Avenger, if they make Tony his creator, who knows if they choose to explain his turn to the dark side in that manner. It seems like the best explanation to me but that's just me, Whedon may interpret the character in a wholly different way.

Excellent post. Lucid and on point. Keep it up!

 

[AlexanderLykins]

I mean think about it .... does anyone really think RDJ would come back just to be lower man on the totem pole when it comes to screen time and plot significance? I just don't see that happening.

I agree 100%. If keeping Robert Downey Jr. means changing parts of the comics that fans don't care about, then I'm all in. RDJ will never get boring and Iron Man has turned into an icon at the level of Superman or Spider-Man. It makes sense for all involved to keep RDJ around.

 

[Iceman]

Honestly, it's a little under explained. The best answer we every got was that because Ultron's personality is based off of Pym's brain scans, he inherited his creator's mental illness and that made him evil. How being bipolar and having a poor self image makes him want to exterminate the human race isn't very clear. I mean, it's not like Pym wants to do those things.

The best possible explanation for that that I can think of is that Ultron came into existence with adult levels of intelligence and Pym's mood swings and poor self image, but no experiences or emotional framework to put those terrible feelings into context. Basically the first thing he ever felt was depression and extreme self loathing without any kind of context for that or any kind of happy memories or positive things in his life to balance that out. So, he immediately resented his creator for making him such a flawed being and burdening him with awful feelings he couldn't understand and promptly set out to do whatever he could to punish his father for it. And ultimately he decided that murdering as many people as possible and making Pym and all of Pym's loved ones watch was the best punishment imaginable.

But I don't think it's ever been spelled out quite that way in the comics, I've never seen that, that's just the best way I could think of that would rationalize Ultron's motivations. If they keep his creation tied to an acting Avenger, if they make Tony his creator, who knows if they choose to explain his turn to the dark side in that manner. It seems like the best explanation to me but that's just me, Whedon may interpret the character in a wholly different way.

This explanation would be great. Not sure if it can be pulled off on film but I'd definitely support it if it was possible.

 

[Gary Griffith]

I think it's interesting that some posters have mentioned a Howard Stark connection to Ultron. Perhaps H Stark created Ultron in the 50's or early 60's as a defense against those damn Commies! Maybe even made him out of Vibranium and used H Stark's brainwaves. Now, for some reason, Ultron was put on mothballs (maybe the technology didn't exist to make it work)

But now Ultron is activated and, for whatever reason, H Stark's brainwaves turn evil. So Ultron, instead of seeing himself as Hank Pym's son, now sees himself as Tony Stark's father (and possibly Pepper's father in law). This would be a twist on the whole Oedipus complex. Ultron would also have a direct connection to Cap as well.

Sure it won't happen. Just an idea

 

[The Question]

So, I just realized that Ultron will probably be written a lot like Adam from season four of Buffy.

 

[AlexanderLykins]

I think it's interesting that some posters have mentioned a Howard Stark connection to Ultron. Perhaps H Stark created Ultron in the 50's or early 60's as a defense against those damn Commies! Maybe even made him out of Vibranium and used H Stark's brainwaves. Now, for some reason, Ultron was put on mothballs (maybe the technology didn't exist to make it work)

But now Ultron is activated and, for whatever reason, H Stark's brainwaves turn evil. So Ultron, instead of seeing himself as Hank Pym's son, now sees himself as Tony Stark's father (and possibly Pepper's father in law). This would be a twist on the whole Oedipus complex. Ultron would also have a direct connection to Cap as well.

Sure it won't happen. Just an idea

That is a neat idea! Ultron thinking he's Tony's father. I don't think he'll be made out of Vibranium initially. I think that's a good way to add Wakanda into the MCU.

 

[Hyde]

Really fantastic fan-made trailer

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE4keyX0YsQ[/YT]