The Dark Knight Rises The Christopher Nolan Thread

[Spuzz]

I think Nolan's grasps the style of European filmmaking better than most American or British directors do, but he's still not quite my favorite director; he still needs to improve his cinematography and the subtly of his films.

You seem like a smart film buff but seriously, Nolan shouldn't be blamed for the cinematography in his films. That's Wally Pfister's doing. Personally Wally Pfister is one of my favorite cinematographers working today. What don't you like about his technique? And "subtly"? Nice spelling. Not trying to be a dick but if you're accusing a director of lacking subtlety at least spell it right. Insomnia had a lot of subtlety in its performances and direction and many scenes in The Prestige and Begins were beautifully subtle in their nuances. I admit Inception bangs you over the head a lot. That's mostly due to its soundtrack though. The Prestige is, in my opinion, Nolan's best movie. If you had to choose one which would you choose?

 

[CConn]

You seem like a smart film buff but seriously, Nolan shouldn't be blamed for the cinematography in his films. That's Wally Pfister's doing. Personally Wally Pfister is one of my favorite cinematographers working today. What don't you like about his technique?

In the words of Pfister himself, a cinematographer's job is to bring the director's vision to the screen.

What don't I like about it? I'm not going to delve too deeply into it - as I've always discussed it at great length before - but simply put, I believe every single frame of a movie should be a work of art. A painting. A photograph. While I think Nolan's art direction and eye for colors has improved by leaps and bounds (I'm wholly unimpressed by the art direction and color palates in Memento and Insomnia), the actual framing and composition of shots is still lacking a bit.

There was a lot of moments in Inception where some really exciting, beautiful things were happening, and the camera angles and shot selections were just downright ugly.

Granted, it also had some truly amazingly well done shots as well. So you can see that there's potential there.

And "subtly"? Nice spelling. Not trying to be a dick but if you're accusing a director of lacking subtlety at least spell it right.

Give me a break. I was posting on my phone.

Insomnia had a lot of subtlety in its performances and direction and many scenes in The Prestige and Begins were beautifully subtle in their nuances. I admit Inception bangs you over the head a lot. That's mostly due to its soundtrack though.

No, no. You misunderstand me. I'm not saying Nolan can't do subtle - I'm saying, in addition to his subtle elements, he bangs a lot over your head too. Inception had countless incredible subtle and hidden elements to it. It's that it also had a lot of very obvious things in it as well that I'm referring to.

I would just like to see Nolan do a movie that has that complete package; subtle, artistic filmmaking without the need for anything overly apparent or obtuse, with an extremely artistic and complete visual style and narrative.

The Prestige is, in my opinion, Nolan's best movie. If you had to choose one which would you choose?

Inception. Despite its aforementioned flaws, it really is a near-perfect film to me; a total package of complex and multilayered storytelling, and an extremely immersive experience that has pitch perfect art design, costuming, music, etc.

I've grown to like The Prestige more, but it has a lot more of the cinematographic and storytelling flaws I've talked about above. Plus, I saw it very soon after seeing The Ilusionist, which actually was much better in a lot of visual and subtextual ways, IMO.

 

[E.NormusJohnson]

No offense guy, but I think you take movie making a little too seriously. You should have just prefaced this whole thing with your preference for arthouse flicks and distaste for blockbuster/popcorn film and saved yourself the trouble of shoehorning yourself into a American/Euro debate.

 

[Naked Shia]

It's not what he's doing at all. At least he's exposing why he feels this way.

 

[Norman Bates]

No offense guy, but I think you take movie making a little too seriously. You should have just prefaced this whole thing with your preference for arthouse flicks and distaste for blockbuster/popcorn film and saved yourself the trouble of shoehorning yourself into a American/Euro debate.

These things don't have to solely exist in art-house films, however I also believe its tough for key crew to concentrate on those things on any film, let alone big budget blockbuster films, especially one with the epic scope of TDKR. If it's managed, AWESOME, if not, and it's still a solid flick, it will get an 'A' from me, just not that A+.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

You should have just prefaced this whole thing with your preference for arthouse flicks and distaste for blockbuster/popcorn film

he just professed his like for Inception (a popcorn blockbuster) a post above you guy.

 

[jacobed]

I think its incredible how much he is able to do in camera effects wise. How he is able to come in under budget and ahead of schedule, also how he never does reshoots.

 

[-Arya-]

I wouldn't say that Nolan is my favorite director, however he is one of my favorites. I'm also one of those who thinks he does need to add more subtlety in his scripts, but that is the only criticism about his filmmaking I can give.

 

[BaleISBatman4ev]

In the words of Pfister himself, a cinematographer's job is to bring the director's vision to the screen.

What don't I like about it? I'm not going to delve too deeply into it - as I've always discussed it at great length before - but simply put, I believe every single frame of a movie should be a work of art. A painting. A photograph. While I think Nolan's art direction and eye for colors has improved by leaps and bounds (I'm wholly unimpressed by the art direction and color palates in Memento and Insomnia), the actual framing and composition of shots is still lacking a bit.

There was a lot of moments in Inception where some really exciting, beautiful things were happening, and the camera angles and shot selections were just downright ugly.

Granted, it also had some truly amazingly well done shots as well. So you can see that there's potential there.
Give me a break. I was posting on my phone.
No, no. You misunderstand me. I'm not saying Nolan can't do subtle - I'm saying, in addition to his subtle elements, he bangs a lot over your head too. Inception had countless incredible subtle and hidden elements to it. It's that it also had a lot of very obvious things in it as well that I'm referring to.

I would just like to see Nolan do a movie that has that complete package; subtle, artistic filmmaking without the need for anything overly apparent or obtuse, with an extremely artistic and complete visual style and narrative.

Inception. Despite its aforementioned flaws, it really is a near-perfect film to me; a total package of complex and multilayered storytelling, and an extremely immersive experience that has pitch perfect art design, costuming, music, etc.

I've grown to like The Prestige more, but it has a lot more of the cinematographic and storytelling flaws I've talked about above. Plus, I saw it very soon after seeing The Ilusionist, which actually was much better in a lot of visual and subtextual ways, IMO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but with all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about buddy. I can appreciate that you don't like certain shots in Nolan's films however you can't have every shot and second of a film look like a piece of "art" and have subtlety at the same time.

It's all a matter of preference and maybe you prefer certain types of films better than others. I for one think directors who go out of their way to make every shot self awarely "beautiful" and "artistic", it takes me out of the film sometimes when DP's and directors are that heavy handed. It gets in the way of story telling, acting, editing and it's CERTAINLY not subtle. In my opinion Nolan and Pfister strike a perfect balance between these mediums to create films that tell beautiful yet engaging stories, subtly.

I'm a filmmaker myself so I have a bit of education and experience on this, I'm not an authority on the matter but I know what I'm talking about.

 

[redhawk23]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but with all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about buddy. I can appreciate that you don't like certain shots in Nolan's films however you can't have every shot and second of a film look like a piece of "art" and have subtlety at the same time.

 

[Batman jr.]

A few smaller scale projects should do him well. And us.

 

[scifiwolf]

Kubrick may do that, but it's at the expense of watchability and accessibility. I LOVE 2001, but I cannot for the life of me force myself to watch it for those reasons.

 

[Batman jr.]

Kubrick may do that, but it's at the expense of watchability and accessibility. I LOVE 2001, but I cannot for the life of me force myself to watch it for those reasons.

I'm not saying that Nolan is Kubrick's, ehm, "successor" (DA NOLUN FANBOYZ ARE BLINDED BY DEER LEADER), but they are both visual directors, with Kubrick being the more, how should I say it...

Stranger.

I hope Nolan will continue to do whatever he wants, even though it's not as "far fetched" (remember Stephen King going ape***** about The Shining). He just needs to make more movies "of his own", I mean: no more reboots or sequels. With the possible exception of Bond 24.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

In my opinion Nolan and Pfister strike a perfect balance between these mediums to create films that tell beautiful yet engaging stories, subtly.

Nolan is not a subtle filmmaker okay? He is the opposite of subtle.

 

[BatLobster]

Nolan is not a subtle filmmaker okay? He is the opposite of subtle.

His movies have tons of subtle moments in them. He underplays certain things as much as overplays others.

 

[Batman jr.]

Nolan is not a subtle filmmaker okay? He is the opposite of subtle.

Indeed.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

His movies have tons of subtle moments in them. He underplays certain things as much as overplays others.

I know he has subtle moments. But that is superseded by the main themes being hammered over your head.

I groan every time I think how many times the word "rise" will be uttered by the characters.

 

[Jheri Curl]

European filmmaking on average might create better films than Hollywood but I'd say most of the best films of any given decade are made by American filmmakers. Mulholland Dr., No Country For Old Men, The New World, Zodiac, Traffic, Inglourious Basterds, Adaptation, Match Point, Marie Antoinette, Brick, The Departed, Kill Bill Vol. 1, etc. I'd say The Lives of Others is the sole non-American/British film to break my top 10 of the 2000s, and Donnersmarck happens to wear his mainstream Hollywood influences and inspirations shamelessly. I do admire a number of Euro films (much of Haneke, many French films, etc.) but by and large, the cinematic showstoppers in my book lately have come from Hollywood directors.

I don't think Nolan is a great director yet, not having made a film on the order of an Annie Hall, Godfather II, Pulp Fiction, Blue Velvet, etc. But he's certainly a major talent.

 

[redhawk23]

Nolan is not a subtle filmmaker okay? He is the opposite of subtle.

As subtle as the Lamborghini.

 

[redhawk23]

European filmmaking on average might create better films than Hollywood but I'd say most of the best films of any given decade are made by American filmmakers. Mulholland Dr., No Country For Old Men, The New World, Zodiac, Traffic, Inglourious Basterds, Adaptation, Match Point, Marie Antoinette, Brick, The Departed, Kill Bill Vol. 1, etc. I'd say The Lives of Others is the sole non-American/British film to break my top 10 of the 2000s, and Donnersmarck happens to wear his mainstream Hollywood influences and inspirations shamelessly. I do admire a number of Euro films (much of Haneke, many French films, etc.) but by and large, the cinematic showstoppers in my book lately have come from Hollywood directors.

I don't think Nolan is a great director yet, not having made a film on the order of an Annie Hall, Godfather II, Pulp Fiction, Blue Velvet, etc. But he's certainly a major talent.

I've never even been convinced that this is true. To some degree American audiences very much have an Atlantic sized filter that catches many of the lower end movies from Europe. Even your local independent theater isn't going to play a deluge of Til Schweiger romantic comedies.

Additionally, hollywood simply makes way more movies with a wider variety of audiences (not to mention many films that have wider audiences, lowest common denominator and all that) than film industries in Europe. It Hollywood's output for sure, but that doesn't mean they don't put out several quality movies every year.

Anyways I think its fair to say that Nolan is working on a different type of movie than most of the directors many of us will consider the "best."

Not that he is above criticism (certainly not) but I think that in the realm of crowd pleasing big budget hollywood films he brings a lot to the table that has been missing from such films from decade, a lot of skill and ambition. I think at times he can overplay his themes somewhat, particularly in Begins, but overall I think he tells stories quite well. Critics and other folks that try to portray him as some kind of "New Kubrick" do him a great disservice, and not just because he doesn't live up to it but because I don't think he's trying to. He's making very different films, that in their own right I think are very good.

 

[BatLobster]

I know he has subtle moments. But that is superseded by the main themes being hammered over your head.

I groan every time I think how many times the word "rise" will be uttered by the characters.

According to my calculations, "rise" should be uttered during the film every 6.23458777 minutes in order to keep the movie at a sufficiently epic level.

Any more than 26.465 "rise"s would definitely be overkill, but anything less would fall tragically short of epic and full-circle.

Spoiler

 

[Victarion]

I'd like to see Nolan do a horror film. I read some trivia saying Inception was originally a horror, but it was either Wikipedia of IMDB...

 

[CConn]

No offense guy, but I think you take movie making a little too seriously.

But they should be taken seriously. They're an art form. A profession. A part of academia.

I'm not getting all crotchety and saying I depose American films or anything, I just think a bad habit was created with American films that have often left them without subtext or any deeper meaning than surface level plotting and storytelling.

You should have just prefaced this whole thing with your preference for arthouse flicks and distaste for blockbuster/popcorn film and saved yourself the trouble of shoehorning yourself into a American/Euro debate.

I do like blockbusters quite a bit.

Inception, Batman, hell, even movies like Real Steel. They're a lot of fun. It's just analytically I realize that they could be even better given a slightly different tact for their direction and screenwriting.

 

[CConn]

European filmmaking on average might create better films than Hollywood but I'd say most of the best films of any given decade are made by American filmmakers. Mulholland Dr., No Country For Old Men, The New World, Zodiac, Traffic, Inglourious Basterds, Adaptation, Match Point, Marie Antoinette, Brick, The Departed, Kill Bill Vol. 1, etc. I'd say The Lives of Others is the sole non-American/British film to break my top 10 of the 2000s, and Donnersmarck happens to wear his mainstream Hollywood influences and inspirations shamelessly. I do admire a number of Euro films (much of Haneke, many French films, etc.) but by and large, the cinematic showstoppers in my book lately have come from Hollywood directors.

I don't think Nolan is a great director yet, not having made a film on the order of an Annie Hall, Godfather II, Pulp Fiction, Blue Velvet, etc. But he's certainly a major talent.

A lot of films you're listing however were heavily influenced by non-American filmmaking. Like Kill Bill is 100 a homage to Asian cinema.

 

[JackWhite]

I'd like to see Nolan do a horror film. I read some trivia saying Inception was originally a horror, but it was either Wikipedia of IMDB...

That would have been intense. Hopefully Rises has a bit of a nice horror influence, but it looks like it's going to be more war film than horror, but that's cool too.