Civil War The Civil War "ANYTHING GOES" Thread - ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK - NO SPOILER TAGS REQ.! - Part 3

[Golgo-13]

So where does the Antman movie fall on the timeline in reference to CW? Are the events of Ant-Man happening simulataneous to the first part of CW, leading up to the part where Bucky's arm is being held in the vice as seen in both movies…?

I ask, because the part where Ant-Man fights Falcon in his movie; in CW Falcon has his costume confiscated…..

 

[JB33]

So where does the Antman movie fall on the timeline in reference to CW? Are the events of Ant-Man happening simulataneous to the first part of CW, leading up to the part where Bucky's arm is being held in the vice as seen in both movies…?

I ask, because the part where Ant-Man fights Falcon in his movie; in CW Falcon has his costume confiscated…..

It looks like the last scene in Ant-Man, when Luis is telling Scott about someone from the Avengers looking for him, takes place shortly after the scene in Civil War when Steve and Sam have Bucky in a vice and Sam tells Steve he knows a guy that can help him. That's obviously when Sam goes looking for Scott and Luis catches wind of it.

The rest of Ant-Man takes place before the events of Civil War.

 

[JtheDreamer]

It looks like the last scene in Ant-Man, when Luis is telling Scott about someone from the Avengers looking for him, takes place shortly after the scene in Civil War when Steve and Sam have Bucky in a vice and Sam tells Steve he knows a guy that can help him. That's obviously when Sam goes looking for Scott and Luis catches wind of it.

The rest of Ant-Man takes place before the events of Civil War.

Nah.

Hawkeye went to get Scott. The scene in Ant-Man with Falcon looking for him was before CW.

 

[Muze]

did anyone think that Vision blasting Rhodey was intentional? like maybe he was acting out on his protectiveness of Wanda w/o realizing it. I think it was Rhodey who incapacitated her with some kind of sonic canon; shortly before that scene. it might have even been his gem manipulating him.

 

[JtheDreamer]

did anyone think that Vision blasting Rhodey was intentional? like maybe he was acting out on his protectiveness of Wanda w/o realizing it. I think it was Rhodey who incapacitated her with some kind of sonic canon; shortly before that scene. it might have even been his gem manipulating him.

No. He simply missed when Falcon maneuvered out of the way. Rhodey being on the receiving end of the mishap was simply coincidence.

 

[Anita18]

No. He simply missed when Falcon maneuvered out of the way.

Right. Falcon dramatically ducks into a barrel roll, he had to work hard to escape getting hit.

Vision is distracted, but he never comes off as vengeful at any point in the movie. I feel that Tony would have picked up on that.

 

[JB33]

Nah.

Hawkeye went on got Scott. The scene in Ant-Man with Falcon looking for him was before CW.

I know Hawkeye actually went and got Scott, but in the last scene of Ant-Man we're only at the point where Sam is asking around about him. He presumably would have started doing that soon after the scene with he, Steve and Bucky in Civil War. Then a bit later on obviously Hawkeye is the one to actually track him down and bring him in.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I know Hawkeye actually went and got Scott, but in the last scene of Ant-Man we're only at the point where Sam is asking around about him. He presumably would have started doing that soon after the scene with he, Steve and Bucky in Civil War. Then a bit later on obviously Hawkeye is the one to actually track him down and bring him in.

Dude, there was no time to go and ask around - not to mention Falcon was with Cap throughout the whole movie until Siberia.

 

[JB33]

Dude, there was no time to go and ask around - not to mention Falcon was with Cap throughout the whole movie until Siberia.

Alright, alright. It was just a theory.

Actually, yeah, you're right. Come to think of it, the scene I was talking about and when they actually bring Scott in all happened on the same day. For some reason I was thinking some time passed between when Sam said "I know a guy" and when Scott was actually brought in by Hawkeye.

 

[The Ironstar]

I wish they use this guy (small nitpic)

 

[InCali]

Just got back from my 3rd viewing a few hours ago and think that vengeance is the real villain. I think this is probably the most nuanced movie yet created by Marvel. BP is a super, Superhero. What a wonderful character. After everything that went down, HE found the correct path. I guess he had better upbringing than Tony (and I LOVE Tony's character). Still, doesn't it say that your upbringing shapes you no matter how smart you are? I think Tony will ultimately come around and I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone in his situation, but I think he's flat out wrong on this one.

The Russos said (as I recall) that people would be basically split 50/50 on who was in the right, but I disagree. Cap is correct, Bucky is correct, BP is correct, and Tony WILL come to understand that. He's a fun, smart, generous, and caring (with maybe a "slightly" enlarged ego) guy who is basically trying to do the right thing, but has a less accurate compass than TWS, CA, and BP.

Ross is an A-holio hoe....

 

[Endeavor]

I wish they use this guy (small nitpic)

Spoiler

http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/The-Avengers_181_GM.jpeg[/IMG[/SPOILER]][/QUOTE]

HPG or Quickilver?

 

[Muze]

I wish they use this guy (small nitpic)

I think the X-Men still have him.

 

[TalismanRing]

Just got back from my 3rd viewing a few hours ago and think that vengeance is the real villain. I think this is probably the most nuanced movie yet created by Marvel. BP is a super, Superhero. What a wonderful character. After everything that went down, HE found the correct path. I guess he had better upbringing than Tony (and I LOVE Tony's character). Still, doesn't it say that your upbringing shapes you no matter how smart you are? I think Tony will ultimately come around and I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone in his situation, but I think he's flat out wrong on this one.

The Russos said (as I recall) that people would be basically split 50/50 on who was in the right, but I disagree. Cap is correct, Bucky is correct, BP is correct, and Tony WILL come to understand that. He's a fun, smart, generous, and caring (with maybe a "slightly" enlarged ego) guy who is basically trying to do the right thing, but has a less accurate compass than TWS, CA, and BP.

Ross is an A-holio hoe....

T'Challa would have murdered Bucky several times over if it wasn't for Steve. I don't see how that places him on a higher moral ground than Tony or shines a better light on his upbringing.

Even after Bucky was arrested T'Challa told Steve that his friend wouldn't be able to escape his vengeance. That he comes to realize this is the wrong path only after half the movie when he realizes it lead him to almost murdering the wrong man several times doesn't make him better or more heroic than Tony. And at the end he still gets to see the murderer arrested and suffering.

Tony gets like 1 minute to comes to terms with his parents brutal murder and he doesn't have the wrong man - exactly. A man who is standing right next to him who either through direction or acting choice also came off pretty emotionless and unrepentant at the moment.

T'Challa's arc ends with him a better man but it's not because his moral compass is inherently better than Tony's.

 

[InCali]

T'Challa would have murdered Bucky several times over if it wasn't for Steve. I don't see how that places him on a higher moral ground than Tony or shines a better light on his upbringing.

Even after Bucky was arrested T'Challa told Steve that his friend wouldn't be able to escape his vengeance. That he comes to realize this is the wrong path only after half the movie when he realizes it lead him to almost murdering the wrong man several times doesn't make him better or more heroic than Tony. And at the end he still gets to see the murderer arrested and suffering.

Tony gets like 1 minute to comes to terms with his parents brutal murder and he doesn't have the wrong man - exactly. A man who is standing right next to him who either through direction or acting choice also came off pretty emotionless and unrepentant at the moment.

T'Challa's arc ends with him a better man but it's not because his moral compass is inherently better than Tony's.

Cool post and I'm glad you wrote it. I'm not 100% sure I'm correct, but here goes....

T'Challa didn't know that Bucky was innocent of murdering his father. Once he became aware of it, everything changed and it changed immediately. I'm definitely willing to give Tony slack for going after TWS, because knowing that someone was framed (in the case of T'Chaka) is a lot different than knowing someone killed your parents; be they brainwashed or no.

IMO Cap was clearly in the right on this one and T'Challa bore no blame in his actions. We can call what happened to Zemo justice or torture. For me it brings into question what justice really is. Maybe T'Challa should have let Zemo blow his brains out and maybe that would have been more humane.

Still, the idea that Stark somehow came off as "right" in this movie is beyond me.

 

[Just_Human]

Soooooooo.....



While Lang was locked in the raft, I wouldn't be surprised if Stark took a quick look at Pym's technology

If Stark didn't then maybe some Hydra scientist working in the RAFT did

Either way, Pym is gonna be seriously pissed

 

[FN-2187]

Soooooooo.....



While Lang was locked in the raft, I wouldn't be surprised if Stark took a quick look at Pym's technology

If Stark didn't then maybe some Hydra scientist working in the RAFT did

Either way, Pym is gonna be seriously pissed

Hopefully Scott shrunk the suit before he was arrested and hid it in his anus.

 

[Wylie Times]

Cool post and I'm glad you wrote it. I'm not 100% sure I'm correct, but here goes....

T'Challa didn't know that Bucky was innocent of murdering his father. Once he became aware of it, everything changed and it changed immediately. I'm definitely willing to give Tony slack for going after TWS, because knowing that someone was framed (in the case of T'Chaka) is a lot different than knowing someone killed your parents; be they brainwashed or no.

IMO Cap was clearly in the right on this one and T'Challa bore no blame in his actions. We can call what happened to Zemo justice or torture. For me it brings into question what justice really is. Maybe T'Challa should have let Zemo blow his brains out and maybe that would have been more humane.

Still, the idea that Stark somehow came off as "right" in this movie is beyond me.

People need to keep in mind that T'Challa wasn't just after his father's killer, he was after the person that assassinated Wakanda's King.

It's easy to forget because of the costume and powers but Black Panther really isn't as superhero in the traditional sense.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Well it came off a lot more emotional than that. It seemed as though he would have done the same thing, whatever the status of his father was. I don't know much about BP in the context of the comics but this is what I gathered from CW.

 

[Wylie Times]

Well it came off a lot more emotional than that. It seemed as though he would have done the same thing, whatever the status of his father was. I don't know much about BP in the context of the comics but this is what I gathered from CW.

It's both...He was dead set on killing the person who murdered T'Chaka because that was his father AND because it was his king.

Wakanda isn't just technologically advanced it's also a nation with a Warrior culture that prides itself on never being conquered.

The Black Panther is supposed to protect Wakanda and it's people by any means necessary. In the comics T'Challa has no problem killing or threatening to kill anyone that endangers or harms his kingdom.

 

[javonstokess]

I've always considered Black Panther to essentially be a well-adjusted version of Batman. lol

 

[Endeavor]

While Lang was locked in the raft, I wouldn't be surprised if Stark took a quick look at Pym's technology

If Stark didn't then maybe some Hydra scientist working in the RAFT did

Either way, Pym is gonna be seriously pissed

Stark didn't stay there long enough to examine any tech, he only went to get the info from Falcon so he could go help Cap.
As for scientists working for Ross, SHIELD/Hydra tried copying his work before and they failed, miserably.

 

[Wylie Times]

Stark didn't stay there long enough to examine any tech, he only went to get the info from Falcon so he could go help Cap.
As for scientists working for Ross, SHIELD/Hydra tried copying his work before and they failed, miserably.

People have a bad habit of thinking that because Tony Stark is a genius that means he's smarter than everyone else and can replicate others scientific breakthroughs with enough time.

Yes, Tony is a genius, but that doesn't mean he can just whip up his own version of the Ant-Man suit or Pym particles.

 

[Kanon]

People have a bad habit of thinking that because Tony Stark is a genius that means he's smarter than everyone else and can replicate others scientific breakthroughs with enough time.

Yes, Tony is a genius, but that doesn't mean he can just whip up his own version of the Ant-Man suit or Pym particles.

Also, not an all around, all fields of science, genius. He is a genius engineer, he might the greatest, but he is not a chemist.

 

[Just_Human]

Samples ,people, samples