The Election Night Thread - Part 2

[chamber-music]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...-college-educated-americans-are-out-of-touch/

Professor says Trump won because educated Americans are out of touch with everyone else.

That seems double insulting. People without college degrees are too stupid to make decisions and don't know any better.

College educated people live in a bubble and can't understand the common working class man's view.

People said the similar thing post-Brexit about wealthy to middle class educated city folk not understanding poor working class people.

Globalization and the decline of certain industries has an had impact for sure but some of that is just a natural part of the evolution of industries. Coal mining being in decline because of the rise of cheaper natural fracking gas is not the fault of foreign industry. Fracking was developed in the U.S and is primarily an American enterprise.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

With all due respect...you have no clue what you are talking about in regards to what I do or do not know or understand.

Wow... Just wow.

 

[Greens]

Is it hot in here?

 

[Schlosser85]

Hot air, maybe.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

When I went to sleep it was looking pretty bad for Hillary, like it was basically a wrap. I had a dream that she barely pulled it off. Then I woke up and this is the reality we are living in. Our only hope is that Trump someone reverts back to the reasonable person he appeared to be several years ago and does not let Pence make any legislation. The cynic in me isn't even that surprised this is where we are at today. Not happy by any means but def not that surprised.

 

[Kelly]

Is it hot in here?

I actually see a few ice cycles...

 

[Quasar]

I haven't slept since yesterday morning. It's raining in New York. You can see the look on everyone's faces, like we're all attending the same funeral.

Maybe they should put the flags at half-staff nationwide.

 

[Shikamaru]

The other side, however, did the same exact thing....

The Obama Coalition, we found out last night is not a coalition without Obama. The black vote simply was not there in the numbers that it was for Obama....we've seen this, we saw it in 2010, and 2014...why they didn't realize that and shore up that vote in the "blue wall states" is something for analysts to discuss for years....but the black vote simply was not there....and Sanders followers were not there, they didn't vote for Trump, they simply did not vote. (How is that proven? easy.....Republicans still hold a solid majority in the House, and majority in the Senate. Had those demographics I mentioned before voted...the Republicans would still have a majority in the House, but with about 13+ fewer seats, and the Senate would be tied, or 1 seat to the Democrats at the least....but when you don't vote at all, the down ballot suffers as well.) Again, in those same states, you had union workers (white union workers) that have voted Democrat in every election before this one, making those states solidly blue, but somehow in the last 2 weeks of this election, you had Trump actually staying on point and hitting those particular states hard with "your jobs that you had, are now overseas"...which is not altogether wrong. NOW, YES.....you take those two things and couple it with a rural, white vote that has NEVER VOTED BEFORE (which is why they were not counted in polls) came out for Trump, not in magnificently HUGE NUMBERS, but enough that coupled with what I stated above was "just enough" in those "Blue Wall States" of the rust belt to turn to Trump in the end.

BUT, IF ALL WE THINK IS THAT Trump won because of racism and hate, then we will see another Trump victory in 2020. AND, you will see more seats in the House and Senate lost in 2018.

DO NOT fall into a pattern of when Republicans win it is because of hate and racism....if you do, you have learned nothing from this race where pundits, polls, newspapers, radio, tv all said Clinton would win. Nothing will have been learned....nothing.
I have warned ever since Trump won the Republican candidacy about dismissing those voters like what I mentioned above that were angry, felt their voices were not being heard, and had lost their jobs.....and what I got from a few here was F**K them, they don't deserve a seat at the table.......well congratulations, they now own the not just the dining room table, but the entire house. Wow....

This.

People forget Trump espoused a number of relatively left-wing positions compared to the other Republicans. He claimed he was in favor of protectionism, paid maternity leave, against NAFTA/TPP and the money in politics (to be fair the last two aren't exclusively left-wing positions). I don't buy for a second he ever believed any of those stuff, but it's the rhetoric he ran on.

That's not to excuse the clear bigotry present within his base, but I do think it's foolish to dismiss all Trump voters as a bunch of xenophobic white men. Again, that just shows a lack of understanding into how Fascism functions. It feeds on the desperate. It needs disenfranchised voters to obtain power, and disenfranchised voters exist on all sides. Trump was simply better at fooling people from all sides into electing him. He is simply a more professional con artist than Hillary is.

 

[Donner]

Did anyone watch his victory speech?

How was it?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Did anyone watch his victory speech?

How was it?

Boilerplate bromides.

 

[Matt Mortem]

The other side, however, did the same exact thing....

The Obama Coalition, we found out last night is not a coalition without Obama. The black vote simply was not there in the numbers that it was for Obama....we've seen this, we saw it in 2010, and 2014...why they didn't realize that and shore up that vote in the "blue wall states" is something for analysts to discuss for years....but the black vote simply was not there....and Sanders followers were not there, they didn't vote for Trump, they simply did not vote. (How is that proven? easy.....Republicans still hold a solid majority in the House, and majority in the Senate. Had those demographics I mentioned before voted...the Republicans would still have a majority in the House, but with about 13+ fewer seats, and the Senate would be tied, or 1 seat to the Democrats at the least....but when you don't vote at all, the down ballot suffers as well.) Again, in those same states, you had union workers (white union workers) that have voted Democrat in every election before this one, making those states solidly blue, but somehow in the last 2 weeks of this election, you had Trump actually staying on point and hitting those particular states hard with "your jobs that you had, are now overseas"...which is not altogether wrong. NOW, YES.....you take those two things and couple it with a rural, white vote that has NEVER VOTED BEFORE (which is why they were not counted in polls) came out for Trump, not in magnificently HUGE NUMBERS, but enough that coupled with what I stated above was "just enough" in those "Blue Wall States" of the rust belt to turn to Trump in the end.

BUT, IF ALL WE THINK IS THAT Trump won because of racism and hate, then we will see another Trump victory in 2020. AND, you will see more seats in the House and Senate lost in 2018.

DO NOT fall into a pattern of when Republicans win it is because of hate and racism....if you do, you have learned nothing from this race where pundits, polls, newspapers, radio, tv all said Clinton would win. Nothing will have been learned....nothing.
I have warned ever since Trump won the Republican candidacy about dismissing those voters like what I mentioned above that were angry, felt their voices were not being heard, and had lost their jobs.....and what I got from a few here was F**K them, they don't deserve a seat at the table.......well congratulations, they now own the not just the dining room table, but the entire house. Wow....

I want to echo this. The hate and bigotry in this country is not the majority. It's not mainstream. Anger propelled Trump to victory, but this wasn't a great resurgence of the KKK. Clinton was an uninspiring candidate who couldn't get the vote out. The Dems once again took Obama's numbers for granted and assumed they'd walk into the White House for a third term.

 

[Legendver2]

For real, it seems like the electoral college screwed us for the second time.

 

[Matt Mortem]

For real, it seems like the electoral college screwed us for the second time.

It's certainly an antiquated system, but what won Trump the Presidency was the extremely low voter turnout.

 

[Legendver2]

I want to echo this. The hate and bigotry in this country is not the majority. It's not mainstream. Anger propelled Trump to victory, but this wasn't a great resurgence of the KKK. Clinton was an uninspiring candidate who couldn't get the vote out. The Dems once again took Obama's numbers for granted and assumed they'd walk into the White House for a third term.

It might not be a resurgence as of now, but the worrisome thing is that this might inspire extremists from both sides to run for office. Dems might think they need their version of Trump, and Trump's base might be embolden to run for government office. Imagine a David Duke running for something in congress.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

You mean the Bern against the Don?

 

[Shikamaru]

I want to echo this. The hate and bigotry in this country is not the majority. It's not mainstream. Anger propelled Trump to victory, but this wasn't a great resurgence of the KKK. Clinton was an uninspiring candidate who couldn't get the vote out. The Dems once again took Obama's numbers for granted and assumed they'd walk into the White House for a third term.

IMO, the people who say all Trump supporters are bigots simply don't understand how good of a con artist Trump is. It's not a defense of Trump at all to point that out; it's the exact opposite.

Then again, that's maybe the rationale behind it. By shrugging off all Trump supporters as bigots, they're maybe subconciously trying to convince themselves he's less dangerous than he really is.

 

[MadVillainy]

The other side, however, did the same exact thing....

The Obama Coalition, we found out last night is not a coalition without Obama. The black vote simply was not there in the numbers that it was for Obama....we've seen this, we saw it in 2010, and 2014...why they didn't realize that and shore up that vote in the "blue wall states" is something for analysts to discuss for years....but the black vote simply was not there....and Sanders followers were not there, they didn't vote for Trump, they simply did not vote. (How is that proven? easy.....Republicans still hold a solid majority in the House, and majority in the Senate. Had those demographics I mentioned before voted...the Republicans would still have a majority in the House, but with about 13+ fewer seats, and the Senate would be tied, or 1 seat to the Democrats at the least....but when you don't vote at all, the down ballot suffers as well.) Again, in those same states, you had union workers (white union workers) that have voted Democrat in every election before this one, making those states solidly blue, but somehow in the last 2 weeks of this election, you had Trump actually staying on point and hitting those particular states hard with "your jobs that you had, are now overseas"...which is not altogether wrong. NOW, YES.....you take those two things and couple it with a rural, white vote that has NEVER VOTED BEFORE (which is why they were not counted in polls) came out for Trump, not in magnificently HUGE NUMBERS, but enough that coupled with what I stated above was "just enough" in those "Blue Wall States" of the rust belt to turn to Trump in the end.

BUT, IF ALL WE THINK IS THAT Trump won because of racism and hate, then we will see another Trump victory in 2020. AND, you will see more seats in the House and Senate lost in 2018.

DO NOT fall into a pattern of when Republicans win it is because of hate and racism....if you do, you have learned nothing from this race where pundits, polls, newspapers, radio, tv all said Clinton would win. Nothing will have been learned....nothing.
I have warned ever since Trump won the Republican candidacy about dismissing those voters like what I mentioned above that were angry, felt their voices were not being heard, and had lost their jobs.....and what I got from a few here was F**K them, they don't deserve a seat at the table.......well congratulations, they now own the not just the dining room table, but the entire house. Wow....

I never said Trump only made it because of bigotry and racsits voting for him. I said he won because people somehow thought any thing Clinton did that we know of is worse than anything Trump did or said which is ridiculous.
It's also ridiculous to me because I think that if you pressed a lot of the people about why Hilary is worse than Trump they wouldn't be able to give an answer other than "Emails" and "she lies"

EDIT: but I'll say it in this post. I think you have to be half a racist to vote for Trump. Half a sexist and half a homophobe

 

[SV Fan]

It's certainly an antiquated system, but what won Trump the Presidency was the extremely low voter turnout.

When you factor in 3rd parties we will have roughly the same amount of voters as 2012

 

[SuperT]

The other side, however, did the same exact thing....

The Obama Coalition, we found out last night is not a coalition without Obama. The black vote simply was not there in the numbers that it was for Obama....we've seen this, we saw it in 2010, and 2014...why they didn't realize that and shore up that vote in the "blue wall states" is something for analysts to discuss for years....but the black vote simply was not there....and Sanders followers were not there, they didn't vote for Trump, they simply did not vote. (How is that proven? easy.....Republicans still hold a solid majority in the House, and majority in the Senate. Had those demographics I mentioned before voted...the Republicans would still have a majority in the House, but with about 13+ fewer seats, and the Senate would be tied, or 1 seat to the Democrats at the least....but when you don't vote at all, the down ballot suffers as well.) Again, in those same states, you had union workers (white union workers) that have voted Democrat in every election before this one, making those states solidly blue, but somehow in the last 2 weeks of this election, you had Trump actually staying on point and hitting those particular states hard with "your jobs that you had, are now overseas"...which is not altogether wrong. NOW, YES.....you take those two things and couple it with a rural, white vote that has NEVER VOTED BEFORE (which is why they were not counted in polls) came out for Trump, not in magnificently HUGE NUMBERS, but enough that coupled with what I stated above was "just enough" in those "Blue Wall States" of the rust belt to turn to Trump in the end.

BUT, IF ALL WE THINK IS THAT Trump won because of racism and hate, then we will see another Trump victory in 2020. AND, you will see more seats in the House and Senate lost in 2018.

DO NOT fall into a pattern of when Republicans win it is because of hate and racism....if you do, you have learned nothing from this race where pundits, polls, newspapers, radio, tv all said Clinton would win. Nothing will have been learned....nothing.
I have warned ever since Trump won the Republican candidacy about dismissing those voters like what I mentioned above that were angry, felt their voices were not being heard, and had lost their jobs.....and what I got from a few here was F**K them, they don't deserve a seat at the table.......well congratulations, they now own the not just the dining room table, but the entire house. Wow....

This entire post is BS. If you voted for Trump, you condoned racism, sexism, Islamophobia, homophobia - every ism in the book. So yes, if you did vote for him you are racist a-hole.

End of story.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Look, if you vote for Trump you are a bigot. You can pretend it's about the economy - even though it's doing better than anyone in 2012 thought it would be - but actions speak louder than words.

Maybe they're not conscious of their own bigotry.

 

[BoredGuy]

IMO, the people who say all Trump supporters are bigots simply don't understand how good of a con artist Trump is.

na you're right... personally, I don't believe they're all bigots

I think they're half bigots, and half idiots

 

[Thundercrack85]

na you're right... personally, I don't believe they're all bigots

I think they're half bigots, and half idiots

That's fair. Still depressing though.

 

[MadVillainy]

na you're right... personally, I don't believe they're all bigots

I think they're half bigots, and half idiots

LOL I did edit my post to say they're half racist, sexist, etc.

I really don't see how they arent

 

[Shikamaru]

I never said Trump only made it because of bigotry and racsits voting for him. I said he won because people somehow thought any thing Clinton did that we know of is worse than anything Trump did or said which is ridiculous.
It's also ridiculous to me because I think that if you pressed a lot of the people about why Hilary is worse than Trump they wouldn't be able to give an answer other than "Emails" and "she lies"

You're half right about that.

You're right that no rational person would genuinely think Hillary is worse than Trump. What you fail to take into account is the voters were not being rational. And you know why they weren't being rational?

Because whenever you have the elites of a country disenfranchise their people, and with no end in sight, the people will eventually reach their limit and become desperate. And when they become desperate, they abandon all rationality and kick into fight-or-flight mode. At that stage they'd be willing to vote for any change than no change at all. It's the exact same way people like Hitler and Mussolini rose to power. It might sound shocking people would do that, but it's human nature.

The DNC Establishment disenfranchised their base and took a gamble. They now payed the price.

 

[Kyle]

na you're right... personally, I don't believe they're all bigots

I think they're half bigots, and half idiots

Precisely. Some got duped. Others, how exactly can we dismiss bigotry being at play when the KKK and Neo-Nazis supported Trump? By turning a blind eye to that? Thanks, but no thanks. As a minority, I'd rather not turn my back now.