The Election Night Thread - Part 2

[hellified]

Wow. Jesus. Calm down. You have so much anger in you. It's not healthy.

People don't choose to become victims, but they most definitely choose to stay victims. If you live your life being angry and upset at perceived or real slights against you, you'll lie on your deathbed having never really lived.

tell that to them..

they actually have more in common with minorities who feel disaffected as well but they'd sooner throw the country into very real political chaos rather than extend a hand and say lets works together since we're BOTH getting screwed over...and I already posted about why that is..

 

[Donner]

It was a minority of people who elected Trump. 25% of the country. It's not like 300 million people voted for Trump. Then you might have an argument. The non voters allowed a fringe group to vote their preferred candidate into power. They're the ones to blame. Otherwise, that fringe group would have just been a loud and annoying small faction of the population that the rest of you could just ignore.

There will always be people in society who are racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. Always. You will never get rid of them and they won't be silenced. But as long as the majority work together, they can keep these small groups from gaining any real political ground.

And one way of working together is to stop playing the blame game with other races and groups of people and to stop being a victim.

 

[DeadPresident]

You don't like being lumped in with everyone - welcome to what we deal with on the daily, I have little sympathy. You always tell African-Americans to clean up our communities when some police shooting happens, you keep telling Muslim citizens they all need to take responsibility as a community for terrorism, you tell Latino/Hispanics they need to take responsibility for all the illegal immigrants.

But now that white America has ef'ed up the country and minorities are calling you out, you want to yell "NOT ALL OF US! NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE! NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY." Yes, it is your responsibility when you sit around and let your family members, friends, co-workers etc. be casually racist and not call them out, you are apart of the problem. It's not enough for you to just say you support minorities, what are you actively doing to support?! Because sitting around being complacent now has us where we are today.

I can't speak for regwec, although I'm fairly sure that like me he isn't an American. You are using us as proxies for the white male archetype who you so fervently hate and you are applying all the faults of that demonstrable racist to us. All kidding aside, I can not begin to explain how toxic your perspective and approach is. You've condensed an entire race down into a very finite number of actions and beliefs, and now you go around telling anyone of that race how they secretly, really, in their own heart of hearts represent and propagate evil. Not only that, but you believe all the faceless whites who you've never met apparently harbor those views, and they subconsciously perpetuate this. So whites have no free will, they're merely automatons carrying out some kind of white supremacist master plan…? Somehow each white person embodies all the sentiments of the worst of "our" kind?

I'd like to think I'm a reasonable person, perhaps to a fault, and I'm compassionate too, but what you're doing is you're baiting reasonable people into becoming unreasonable. I'm sure there are many like me in the US, white and (surprisingly) not evil harbingers of an ethnic cleanse. Unfortunately the sins of the father can only be passed onto the son so many times, and a reasonable person can only be told so many times they are something they are not before you turn them into the thing you apparently say you don't want whites to be. I feel the utmost pity on your part that you feel like fallaciously demonizing an entire race somehow validates your beliefs.

You really need to find better ways of processing this topic, because all that this discourse does is create more and more people like the ones you claim are the problem. You completely lack reason on this issue.

 

[chaseter]

You don't like being lumped in with everyone - welcome to what we deal with on the daily, I have little sympathy. You always tell African-Americans to clean up our communities when some police shooting happens, you keep telling Muslim citizens they all need to take responsibility as a community for terrorism, you tell Latino/Hispanics they need to take responsibility for all the illegal immigrants.

But now that white America has ef'ed up the country and minorities are calling you out, you want to yell "NOT ALL OF US! NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE! NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY." Yes, it is your responsibility when you sit around and let your family members, friends, co-workers etc. be casually racist and not call them out, you are apart of the problem. It's not enough for you to just say you support minorities, what are you actively doing to support?! Because sitting around being complacent now has us where we are today.

Trump got almost 10% of the black vote. Are they racist white people trapped in black bodies?

 

[DeadPresident]

this was addressed in the racism thread

You did a horrible job of it there too =/

 

[chaseter]

I can't speak for regwec, although I'm fairly sure that like me he isn't an American. You are using us as proxies for the white male archetype who you so fervently hate and you are applying all the faults of that demonstrable racist to us. All kidding aside, I can not begin to explain how toxic your perspective and approach is. You've condensed an entire race down into a very finite number of actions and beliefs, and now you go around telling anyone of that race how they secretly, really, in their own heart of hearts represent and propagate evil. Not only that, but you believe all the faceless whites who you've never met apparently harbor those views, and they subconsciously perpetuate this. So whites have no free will, they're merely automatons carrying out some kind of white supremacist master plan…?

I'd like to think I'm a reasonable person, perhaps to a fault, and I'm compassionate too, but what you're doing is you're baiting reasonable people into becoming unreasonable. I'm sure there are many like me in the US, white and (surprisingly) not evil harbingers of an ethnic cleanse. Unfortunately the sins of the father can only be passed onto the son so many times, and a reasonable person can only be told so many times they are something they are not before you turn them into the thing you apparently say you don't want whites to be. I feel the utmost pity on your part that you feel like fallaciously demonizing an entire race somehow validates your beliefs.

You really need to find better ways of processing this topic, because all that this discourse does is create more and more people like the ones you claim are the problem. You completely lack reason on this issue.

He's racist while claiming everyone else is racist. He's not tolerant while being angry that everyone else isn't tolerant. It's not his responsibility to change his own circumstances...it's everyone else's. Hate Trumps Hate.

 

[SuperT]

You two are too obtuse for words and really just won't ever comprehend. Jesus Christ, you can't seriously sit there and say the things you are saying with a straight face while looking at this country's history and where we are today.

I honestly only ask, when you have large groups of minority people, not even just me, but on the news, on social media, in your own damn neighborhoods telling this same stuff. Telling you they are terrified, telling you about the racist crap we have to deal with on the daily you continually deny and push it down as if it's of little importance. What does that say about you? Why do you as a white person not just shut up and listen? How can you possibly have any sort of relevant opinion when you don't or won't ever have to deal with any of these ramifications?

The fact that you can't comprehend that is frightening.

 

[Donner]

The more you scream at people that they're the problem, the less they listen. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[DeadPresident]

You two are too obtuse for words and really just won't ever comprehend. Jesus Christ, you can't seriously sit there and say the things you are saying with a straight face while looking at this country's history and where we are today.

I honestly only ask, when you have large groups of minority people, not even just me, but on the news, on social media, in your own damn neighborhoods telling this same stuff. Telling you they are terrified, telling you about the racist crap we have to deal with on the daily you continually deny and push it down as if it's of little importance. What does that say about you? Why do you as a white person not just shut up and listen? How can you possibly have any sort of relevant opinion when you don't or won't ever have to deal with any of these ramifications?

The fact that you can't comprehend that is frightening.

Explain to me why you used the word "you" in that passage so many times. You don't know regwec or myself from a bar of soap, but you presume to tell me what I do, as though you've known my conduct my entire life?

Worse, yet, if you meant "you" metaphorically or in the abstract it further proves you believe whites aren't individuals but all just representatives of some kind of generic character - apparently an evil, middle aged racist trying to harm black America. And then when I lay out a fairly logical explanation of how your discourse is unproductive considering how much you value the plight of black America, you say I'm obtuse? And you use social media and television news as your sources to construct a "truth" about what really happens in the world.

Genuinely, you have an exceptionally maladaptive and unhealthy way of trying to address this issue, and the sad part is it's going to have the exact opposite effect of what you claim you want to achieve. I'll leave it here, there's not much point going further. You ask people to listen to you, but you don't grant them the same courtesy for some reason.

And for the last time, I'm not American, I'm not the guy who voted for Trump.

 

[Shikamaru]

so, what you're telling me is, a vote for a billionaire with tight connections to the political elite was a vote against what people call establishment?

Trump sold himself as anti-Establishment. Whether or not he is (he clearly isn't) is irrelevant to the result.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

"Let me be very clear. In my view, Democrats will not retain the White House, will not regain the Senate, will not gain the House and will not be successful in dozens of governor’s races unless we run a campaign which generates excitement and momentum and which produces a huge voter turnout.
With all due respect, and I do not mean to insult anyone here, that will not happen with politics as usual. The same old, same old will not be successful.
The people of our country understand that — given the collapse of the American middle class and the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality we are experiencing — we do not need more establishment politics or establishment economics.
We need a political movement which is prepared to take on the billionaire class and create a government which represents all Americans, and not just corporate America and wealthy campaign donors.
In other words, we need a movement which takes on the economic and political establishment, not one which is part of it."

That was from a speech on August 28th, 2015.

 

[regwec]

You don't like being lumped in with everyone - welcome to what we deal with on the daily, I have little sympathy. You always tell African-Americans to clean up our communities when some police shooting happens, you keep telling Muslim citizens they all need to take responsibility as a community for terrorism, you tell Latino/Hispanics they need to take responsibility for all the illegal immigrants.

But now that white America has ef'ed up the country and minorities are calling you out, you want to yell "NOT ALL OF US! NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE! NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY." Yes, it is your responsibility when you sit around and let your family members, friends, co-workers etc. be casually racist and not call them out, you are apart of the problem. It's not enough for you to just say you support minorities, what are you actively doing to support?! Because sitting around being complacent now has us where we are today.

An interesting post. I have never, in fact, held any of the positions you ascribe to me as a result of your assumptions about my race. As a racist, you will be accustomed to erring in this way.

 

[SuperT]

Okay, so if you don't ascribe what are you actively doing? What have you done? I'm genuinely interested in knowing. I just want people to understand the clear message this election sent to minorities in this country. As I stated again, how can we interpret it any other way other than a direct attack against us?

 

[Donner]

regwec isn't American. Why should he have to answer to your expectations?

 

[DeadPresident]

Okay, so if you don't ascribe what are you actively doing? What have you done? I'm genuinely interested in knowing. I just want people to understand the clear message this election sent to minorities in this country. As I stated again, how can we interpret it any other way other than a direct attack against us?

We're not American.

Honestly, a piece of advice, stop antagonizing people because you perceive a threat. You have every right to feel threatened, but understand how using race-baiting tactics doesn't endear anyone to you or your wellbeing. And definitely don't accuse someone who's behavior you have no proof of of being some kind of evil racist.

You go in one breath from telling someone you know nothing about that they're literally an explicit and demonstrable racist to asking them what they're actively doing to assist your cause. That's psychotic.

Antagonizing and demonizing the same group whose assistance and compassion you want to enlist…? Another user already said it, but this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[SuperT]

regwec isn't American. Why should he have to answer to your expectations?

Wasn't aware that he or DP were non-American's which makes sense. Why engage in a conversation about racism and it's implications in America, how minorities should react to this election etc. when you only have an outside view on American racism, it's structures and implications or how it affects us here?

That's completely out of your place, just as it would be for me to comment on any other country's policies or election ramifications.

 

[Donner]

Even if they were American, why do they have to answer questions like "what are you doing?" and "what have you done?" Are people not allowed to just live their lives as they see fit as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others? If DP wants to spend his days painting because it gives his life meaning and makes him happy, why should he have to actively be involved in whatever the hell it is you want people to do just to meet your requirements for not being a racist white person?

 

[regwec]

Wasn't aware that he or DP were non-American's which makes sense. Why engage in a conversation about racism and it's implications in America, how minorities should react to this election etc. when you only have an outside view on American racism, it's structures and implications or how it affects us here?

That's completely out of your place, just as it would be for me to comment on any other country's policies or election ramifications.

Sorry for any confusion: I am calling you a racist, based on the sentiments that you have expressed right here and now.

I don't think our residencies on opposite sides of the Atlantic affect that.

 

[hellified]

It was a minority of people who elected Trump. 25% of the country. It's not like 300 million people voted for Trump. Then you might have an argument. The non voters allowed a fringe group to vote their preferred candidate into power. They're the ones to blame. Otherwise, that fringe group would have just been a loud and annoying small faction of the population that the rest of you could just ignore.

There will always be people in society who are racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. Always. You will never get rid of them and they won't be silenced. But as long as the majority work together, they can keep these small groups from gaining any real political ground.

And one way of working together is to stop playing the blame game with other races and groups of people and to stop being a victim.

you think that pic I posted or the pct you mentioned is the problem? thyre just the attack dogs for the real problem. The real problem is class based but racism and sexism are factors of that and the people who keep that pot stirred are already in political power and have always been.

 

[SuperT]

Even if they were American, why do they have to answer questions like "what are you doing?" and "what have you done?" Are people not allowed to just live their lives as they see fit as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others? If DP wants to spend his days painting because it gives his life meaning and makes him happy, why should he have to actively be involved in whatever the hell it is you want people to do just to meet your requirements for not being a racist white person?

Well this doesn't apply to him because he's not American but I'm asking what you're doing maybe because minorities shouldn't have to bear the responsibility of dismantling racism, a system we had no part in building, here in America by ourselves. Even if we did, we don't have the numbers, the government control, the influence etc.

So yes, White America does bear some responsibility for helping out. It's never going to end if the majority never does anything. If you truly care about the rights and lives of your fellow minority citizens then complacency is not an option. It's a slap in the face and extremely hurtful to call yourself an ally but never do anything of action to support.

 

[hellified]

You did a horrible job of it there too =/

that explanation was an article written by an asian guy who deconstructed your points. you have no answer to that except "ignore the racists and they will go away"

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Another cute, regressive leftist lie. The only person anyone needs to police is themselves. Individual responsibility, very futuristic concept.

It's funny. Minorities are constantly told by conservatives that only they control their own destiny but guess who's terrified of becoming a minority?

 

[TheDreamMaster]

I just don't like the attitude that if you voted Trump, you are automatically racist because of things he said. I did not vote for him, I don't want him in office. That said, I still think it's not right to lump in everyone into one category. If those statistics I saw earlier are to be believed, only 25% of the population voted Trump. Half did not even vote, so of that 25%, I'll go high and say 15% voted on racial bias. While terrible, that's still only 15% of 25% with 75% that either voted for someone else or didn't.

That remaining 50% includes people of all races in America, so if anything, apathy got us where we are, not racism, and if it goes south we'll all be paying for it.

 

[SuperT]

Not voting is just as terrible. You for sure have LGBTQ people around you telling you they are scared they are going to lose their marriage rights, you for sure have Latino/Hispanic friends telling you they are scared of being harassed and deported, you have to have Muslim friends telling you they are scared to be profiled and watched, you have African-American friends telling you they are afraid of stop & frisk or being profiled more by police.

Yet through all of that, you still said to yourself "Meh, doesn't affect me, I'm don't need to vote." Yikes. Wish I could have done that!

 

[SV Fan]

I just don't like the attitude that if you voted Trump, you are automatically racist because of things he said. I did not vote for him, I don't want him in office. That said, I still think it's not right to lump in everyone into one category. If those statistics I saw earlier are to be believed, only 25% of the population voted Trump. Half did not even vote, so of that 25%, I'll go high and say 15% voted on racial bias. While terrible, that's still only 15% of 25% with 75% that either voted for someone else or didn't.

Technically it's closer to 19%(~60M votes in a country that has 320M people) of the population.

I think more then people being outright racists, it a case that saying outright racists things is not a disqualifier for many people, I am not sure what the exact term to label that is but that is the case