The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - - Part 11

[herolee10]

I know a lot of people complain about Oliver ending up with Felicity, but in the same token, I would've been completely fine with Barry and Patty ending up together. They were great together and they could've kept Iris off "Team Flash leader" and more of a reporter

Yeah, personally I feel like they should have given Barry and Iris a few seasons away from each other romantically, while allowing Iris to grow and develop as a character of her own in a natural way while maintaining the Patty and Barry romance.

Patty could have been the one to tragically die later on in a Gwen Stacy manner and Barry could have slowly moved onto Iris after an appropriate period of grieving and finding piece with it.

I also wish that they would have Joe stop calling Barry as his son because it just keeps reminding me and others on how incestuous Barry's relationship with Iris feels like.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Really? Now that's very surprising to hear.

From what I've seen, "The Flash" has received the most criticism out of all of the Arrowverse shows this past season.

Well if the ratings are still that good then, damn...I guess we're in for more of the same stuff. Sighs...

Have you seen the shows on TheCW? lol. Flash is still probably one of the most family friendly of the shows and kids think he is just super cool.

Yeah, personally I feel like they should have given Barry and Iris a few seasons away from each other romantically, while allowing Iris to grow and develop as a character of her own in a natural way while maintaining the Patty and Barry romance.

Patty could have been the one to tragically die later on in a Gwen Stacy manner and Barry could have slowly moved onto Iris after an appropriate period of grieving and finding piece with it.

I also wish that they would have Joe stop calling Barry as his son because it just keeps reminding me and others on how incestuous Barry's relationship with Iris feels like.

I actually agree with this. One thing about this verse is that they are very straight forward in a sense that they will focus on the OTP basically right off the bat and not really let them have meaningful relationships with anyone else or do the exact opposite and not let them have any real relationship with anyone.

When Oliver/Laurel were still suppose to be a thing, they had him running around with a woman left and right but once they decided they wanted Oliver/Felicity to happen, he practically became a celibate and when they did have them get together, break up and "date" other people, those relationships were not even given a chance to be a thing. Same with Thea/Roy, she had a boyfriend that was around for all of like 2 episodes and of course Laurel didn't date anyone after Oliver/Tommy, same with Caitlin not really being given a real love interest that sticks around.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I think the biggest indicator of whether season 5 will be good is if either the cast or producers admit that season 4 was a misstep for the right reasons.

If they go into season 5 with the belief that they did no wrong in season 4 then their whole #feminism, "We are the Flash", inconsistent writing, and overall terrible villain formula will end up making the Flash the first of the Arrowverse shows to be cancelled.

Gotta get to step one to get to two. Which is hiring better writers. Or rehiring Season 1's writers.

The SJW nonsense woven into the scripts was a huge step back and they know it. I can't go on their official social media without someone calling out that "Girl's Night Out" episode, and it had nothing to do with Killer Frost, even though they purposely made her weak.

Maybe it was discussed earlier on here, but I think the inconsistent quality this season is a result of Andrew Kriesberg being a creep and scaring writers out of the room.

The Flash has had a revolving door of writers since it started, and I think this is influencing the quality of the show. Season 4 is where that finally caught up.

Kriesberg was fired about halfway through the season, and I think that partially explains why the second half of the season had so many major writing problems (Barry's stint in prison going nowhere and leading to nothing, DeVoe's nonsensical plan, Ralph undergoing the same character arc like three times, etc.).

AJK having an influence over the show's quality is a big tell. He was a huge westallen and Iris groupie, like Marc Guggenheim was for Felicity and olicity, that overstayed his welcome. We can thank him for all the confusion and thank the show runners for firing that useless pervert for infecting the stories and the working environment for as long as he did.

Really? Now that's very surprising to hear.

From what I've seen, "The Flash" has received the most criticism out of all of the Arrowverse shows this past season.

Well if the ratings are still that good then, damn...I guess we're in for more of the same stuff. Sighs...

Don't believe that it's the "highest rated." Where? A 2.0 in the season finale? That is their lowest yet. Their demo is at .6, not high at all. The show had no advertising at all for Season 4 because they have no money due having low ratings in Season 3. And guess who that was about? Like I said, I can't go on Facebook or Instagram without seeing the top liked comments trashing the quality of the writing. The backlash is bigger than it ever was. People are underwhelmed for Season 5.

I know a lot of people complain about Oliver ending up with Felicity, but in the same token, I would've been completely fine with Barry and Patty ending up together. They were great together and they could've kept Iris off "Team Flash leader" and more of a reporter

Or with Caitlin, he did smile at her even though Iris was calling his name repeatedly. The show needs to explore beyond incest. Linda and Patty are missed.

 

[flickchick85]

Don't believe that it's the "highest rated." Where? A 2.0 in the season finale? That is their lowest yet. Their demo is at .6, not high at all. The show had no advertising at all for Season 4 because they have no money due having low ratings in Season 3. And guess who that was about? Like I said, I can't go on Facebook or Instagram without seeing the top liked comments trashing the quality of the writing. The backlash is bigger than it ever was. People are underwhelmed for Season 5.

Still easily the highest-rated of the network. Ratings are simply a measurement of viewers, not quality. Here are The CW's top 5 ratings averages this season:

1.) The Flash; Demo: .8, Total Live Viewers: 2.214 million
2.) Black Lightning; Demo: .56, Total Live Viewers: 1.732 million
3.) Supernatural; Demo: .55, Total Live Viewers: 1.687 million
4.) Supergirl; Demo: .51, Total Live Viewers: 1.842 million
5.) Riverdale; Demo: .49, Total Live Viewers: 1.371 million

It's worth noting that ALL of these shows had lower numbers in the latter half of their seasons, and ratings have been dropping across the board (the CW app likely has had a lot to do with that). For example, for all the acclaim Black Lightning has gotten, its finale still only pulled a .50 in the demo and 1.678 million live viewers, and even the bastion of viewer loyalty Supernatural was pulling .4's in the demo toward the end of the season and only managed to tick up to a .50 in the finale. And the gap between The Flash and the other shows only increases when DVR ratings are taken into account, as it usually has the highest percentage of DVR viewer gains as well.

Anyway you slice it, it's not even a competition: The Flash is The CW's highest-rated show, whether viewers are pleased or not.

Yeah, personally I feel like they should have given Barry and Iris a few seasons away from each other romantically, while allowing Iris to grow and develop as a character of her own in a natural way while maintaining the Patty and Barry romance.

Patty could have been the one to tragically die later on in a Gwen Stacy manner and Barry could have slowly moved onto Iris after an appropriate period of grieving and finding piece with it.

I also wish that they would have Joe stop calling Barry as his son because it just keeps reminding me and others on how incestuous Barry's relationship with Iris feels like.

Agreed on all counts.

 

[Web-Head]

I think either Barry should have had another father figure or Iris should've lived with Francine and then moved to Central City as a reporter after college and started working for Central City News or whatever it's called.

 

[NotGoodAtNames]

AJK having an influence over the show's quality is a big tell. He was a huge westallen and Iris groupie, like Marc Guggenheim was for Felicity and olicity, that overstayed his welcome. We can thank him for all the confusion and thank the show runners for firing that useless pervert for infecting the stories and the working environment for as long as he did.

I've been looking on this forum for awhile now. I wasn't going to make an acount, but I have to.

Are you serious? You actually believe AJK was an Iris and WestAllen groupie? You couldn't be more wrong. Everybody knows, even haters, that he was all about Caitlin and Snowbarry. Hell, he rewrote Caitlin's role after deciding to cast Danielle, his friend. The man clearly did not like writing for Iris and the early seasons showed.

1. He wanted Iris to not learn about the secret until season 2. Backlash in season 1 is what caused her to find out in the last part of the season.

2. He promised a journalism arc for Iris, but did that happen? Nope

3. Even if he wasn't showrunner back in season 2 and 3, he still had major influence. Seriously, how could you look back and think this man liked writing for Iris and WestAllen? You know he has higher ups himself right? Geoff Johns, CW network, and WB themselves. They like Iris and WestAllen. They were not about to have this show become Arrow 2.0 which would have happened if AJK had his way.

I'm glad the man is gone, because now we can have better writing. But he wasn't an Iris groupie.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Still easily the highest-rated of the network. Ratings are simply a measurement of viewers, not quality. Here are The CW's top 5 ratings averages this season:

1.) The Flash; Demo: .8, Total Live Viewers: 2.214 million
2.) Black Lightning; Demo: .56, Total Live Viewers: 1.732 million
3.) Supernatural; Demo: .55, Total Live Viewers: 1.687 million
4.) Supergirl; Demo: .51, Total Live Viewers: 1.842 million
5.) Riverdale; Demo: .49, Total Live Viewers: 1.371 million

Anyway you slice it, it's not even a competition: The Flash is The CW's highest-rated show, whether viewers are pleased or not.


Agreed on all counts.

My wife watches some of CW's non-Arrowverse shows, and I noticed that CW ran Flash-centric promos all weekend. They're currently portraying themselves as the "Flash Network."

 

[Flash525]

I know a lot of people complain about Oliver ending up with Felicity, but in the same token, I would've been completely fine with Barry and Patty ending up together. They were great together and they could've kept Iris off "Team Flash leader" and more of a reporter

Completely agree with this; Barr & Patty certainly seemed like they had more chemistry to me - they should have ran ( t: ) with this coupling for a few seasons and then had him move on to Iris later on, either having killed Patty off, or just had her character move on as she already did do.

 

[Web-Head]

A couple audition tapes for the villain have been found. Sounds like it will be Cicada

https://superbromovies.com/2018/06/03/the-flash-season-5-auditions-tapes-surface-for-main-villain/

 

[Lencho01]

No more Kid Flash...

Yo! Soo as a lot of you have now read, I’m not returning next season as a series regular for @cwtheflash or @cw_legendsoftomorrow. It’s definitely not a total goodbye or “see ya never” situation, cause Wally West will still be round when you need him the most! It’s just that it won’t be full time anymore.

I’ve changed a lot in the past year (as you’ve probably noticed lol), and for infinite reasons my perspective on life & what I want from it now is just completely different. Because of that, my heart told me it was the right time to continue my journey on an unknown path, and I’m so damn grateful to both shows for honouring & respecting that with me.
I love Kid Flash, I love the family I’ve made, & I’m absolutely in love with the invaluable lessons I’ve learnt along the way. Thank you for believing in me & rooting for Wally to thrive, you honestly helped me see that i did indeed deserve to play him, & that **** right there made me a stronger actor ???? Anyway, I hope you stick around for the new adventures, the only thing I can promise is Magic.

Love Keiy ??

 

[The Shape]

Never thought he was all that great, and I still think they brought Wally into the mix way too soon.

 

[Flash525]

I figured it would have been his call, rather than a show decision, but I'm cool with that regardless, seeing as the writers haven't quite figured out how to use him properly yet. I do think that maybe they did bring him in too soon too, but I can live with it. I wonder how they'll explain his absence though; surely he can't go on (another) journey of self discovery?

I guess the next speedster we'll meet is Bart? Hopefully not too soon though. To clarify, cause my background is a little rusty, but would Bart be Nora's son?

 

[Web-Head]

He'll still pop in every once in awhile but he won't be a regular. He's gonna be in the season 5 premiere

 

[NotGoodAtNames]

I figured it would have been his call, rather than a show decision, but I'm cool with that regardless, seeing as the writers haven't quite figured out how to use him properly yet. I do think that maybe they did bring him in too soon too, but I can live with it. I wonder how they'll explain his absence though; surely he can't go on (another) journey of self discovery?

I guess the next speedster we'll meet is Bart? Hopefully not too soon though. To clarify, cause my background is a little rusty, but would Bart be Nora's son?

No. Bart Allen is Don's son in the comics. Since Nora is their version of Dawn, then she would have a daughter named Jenni

 

[Sushidon]

Lol could someone enlighten me as I don't seem to understand or see or might not have caught these in the episodes:
1.Why didn't team flash do anything to search for The Weeper?
2.Where is the weeper now that Season 4 is over?
3.How could Barry have a daughter that would later run back in time to save him if he had already died from the impact with the satellite?

 

[fan4stic]

Lol could someone enlighten me as I don't seem to understand or see or might not have caught these in the episodes:
1.Why didn't team flash do anything to search for The Weeper?
2.Where is the weeper now that Season 4 is over?
3.How could Barry have a daughter that would later run back in time to save him if he had already died from the impact with the satellite?

They might've mentioned him being taken by thinker, but I'm not sure.
Likely dead, but that's not certain, it's one of the issues with this season for me.
It's for sure that he would've died doing that, though another theory is that Iris is already pregnant.

 

[Flash525]

No. Bart Allen is Don's son in the comics. Since Nora is their version of Dawn, then she would have a daughter named Jenni

So... as far as the show is concerned, Bart Allen doesn't exist? At least in Earth 1's future?

Dawn & Don = Bart
Nora & [someone] = Jenni

???

3.How could Barry have a daughter that would later run back in time to save him if he had already died from the impact with the satellite?

It's for sure that he would've died doing that, though another theory is that Iris is already pregnant.

Oh you've gotta' love time travel, huh?

It really does depend on how you perceive it; Nora could have come back in time before Barry would have died - similarly to how Eobard came back in time right at the start.

If we take a step back for a moment - Eobard came from the future, into the past, to kill a younger Barry (because of jealousy?); the resulting conflict ended up with Eobard killing Nora (Allen), which in turn led to Barry becoming the Flash a lot earlier than it was intended (Eobard's Flash didn't get his powers until adulthood).

Now, had Eobard actually succeeded in killing Infant Barry, the Flash would never have existed, which in turn wouldn't have bothered future Eobard (who wouldn't have known about there ever being a Flash) who in turn wouldn't have become a speedster himself, which in turn (again) wouldn't have him going back in time to stop something that had or hadn't happened. Confusing, I know, and it doesn't make the least bit of sense.

The best way to think about time (at least within the Arrow/Flashverse) is to imagine them similar to the multiverse, except in the multiverse it's different Earth's that are running at the same time, whereas the timeline stuff (lets call it the timeverse) also all exist, but the connection to and from them depends on what's going on in the past and future.

 

[jolldan]

No more Kid Flash...

Have to be honest im glad he's not going back to Flash. I think he's a good actor and good as Wally but personally I just never felt like Wally was needed or meshed very well in the show.

Now the fact that he isn't returning as a season regular to LOT I am gutted about. Honestly felt like he was starting to find his feet there and have fun with the role towards the end of Legends.

 

[Lantern Venom]

My DVR seems empty without a new Flash eppy to dissect every week.

 

[the gael]

Have to be honest im glad he's not going back to Flash. I think he's a good actor and good as Wally but personally I just never felt like Wally was needed or meshed very well in the show.

Now the fact that he isn't returning as a season regular to LOT I am gutted about. Honestly felt like he was starting to find his feet there and have fun with the role towards the end of Legends.

I’m really sad that he won’t return in LOT. Wally was really great in that show. He just didn’t have the needed space to developp in the Flash. Being Kid Flash, he was always in the shadow of Barry (which is quite normal)

 

[jolldan]

I’m really sad that he won’t return in LOT. Wally was really great in that show. He just didn’t have the needed space to developp in the Flash. Being Kid Flash, he was always in the shadow of Barry (which is quite normal)

Same seemed like him and Zari were developing a good brother sister kind of friendship.

Also the banter between him and Mick was great.

Never mind at least he got one of the coolest moments in the crossover lol.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rc...aw1l1mhSIlbl5_A8qaa4QeSt&ust=1528799439600606
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&r...aw1l1mhSIlbl5_A8qaa4QeSt&ust=1528799439600606

 

[Primal Slayer]

Danielle Nicolet aka Cecile Norton has been upped to a series regular for S5.
https://tvline.com/2018/06/13/the-flash-season-5-danielle-nicolet-series-regular-cecile-horton/

 

[Ninjablade]

There are going to be a lot of major characters next season. I hope it doesn't feel bloated and people actually get worthwhile development.

I imagine Nora might have a role similar to Ralph this past season and Julian the season before. If Ralph sticks around I wonder if he'll have a smaller or larger role than last time.

Season 1 had 7 series regulars so adding Cecil isn't a huge jump, but with a main villain and possibly 2 other major recurring characters. That seems like a lot.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Not that much different from this season.

 

[proteus]

I wonder how much longer until they fire Danielle Panabaker. They clearly are phasing her out.

I really hate Cecile. I'm sure she'll hog even more airtime now than she did last season.