The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - - Part 11

[Flash525]

Check the scoreboard, ace. You confronted me with complete misinformation then backpeddled.

Just couldn’t help yourself huh? I’ve said my piece, if you can’t get down from your high horse, how about a vow of silence, or better still, introduce me to your ignore list and do us both a favour.

 

[famicommander]

Just couldn’t help yourself huh? I’ve said my piece, if you can’t get down from your high horse, how about a vow of silence, or better still, introduce me to your ignore list and do us both a favour.

I'm not the one with a problem here. I am not at all bothered by our interaction and would never put any user on an ignore list.

 

[Brierrose]

The question for Flash isn't whether it will be renewed, but for how many seasons.

CW does not like to cancel veteran shows without announcing a final season beforehand. They haven't cancelled a show beyond season 1 without announcing it as a final season in over five years.

Grant Gustin signed a seven season contract, and the Flash is the most successful show in the history of the CW (or its predecessor networks, UPN and WB) by a very wide margin.

So at this very moment, chances are WB/CW are engaged in negotiations with Grant Gustin to try to get him to commit to 3-5 more seasons at once.

This is what happened with Arrow. Amell was originally going to walk away after his 7 season deal expired, but they were able to convince him to come back for a shortened 8th season.

But given Flash's popularity, Gustin will likely be offered a much, much larger sum of money than Amell was to stay on.

While I agree that it's in Grant's hands my gut says he's already made his decision but it's not public yet. Early renewals are usually announced at the winter meeting of the Television Critics Association, which will be in a couple of weeks. They'll probably announce a mass renewal at the winter TCA meeting and if it is the last season sometime before upfronts in May give Grant the opportunity to announce that himself like Stephen did. He may very well decide it's time to move on, no matter how much $$$ he's offered. Comic Convections are littered with actors who were typecast in superhero/syfy shows and weren't able to have successful careers after the show ended. If he resigns he's kinda sending a signal that he's not open to new projects which is not a great thing for a actor. Sometimes it's better to go out on top.

Gustin is maybe the best actor of the whole arrowverse by far, we will see, if he wanna play save or wanna jump to movies.

Disagree, Grant is very good but Melissa is better. She had Broadway producers contacting her and her debut was very successful. The producers of Waco said they kept expanding her part because of how good she is. I doubt if Grant had the same opportunity he would've passed on it so that means he didn't get that call. Both shouldn't have trouble finding work after their shows end.

 

[famicommander]

While I agree that it's in Grant's hands my gut says he's already made his decision but it's not public yet. Early renewals are usually announced at the winter meeting of the Television Critics Association, which will be in a couple of weeks. They'll probably announce a mass renewal at the winter TCA meeting and if it is the last season sometime before upfronts in May give Grant the opportunity to announce that himself like Stephen did. He may very well decide it's time to move on, no matter how much $$$ he's offered. Comic Convections are littered with actors who were typecast in superhero/syfy shows and weren't able to have successful careers after the show ended. If he resigns he's kinda sending a signal that he's not open to new projects which is not a great thing for a actor. Sometimes it's better to go out on top.

Disagree, Grant is very good but Melissa is better. She had Broadway producers contacting her and her debut was very successful. The producers of Waco said they kept expanding her part because of how good she is. I doubt if Grant had the same opportunity he would've passed on it so that means he didn't get that call. Both shouldn't have trouble finding work after their shows end.

I don't think 10-12 seasons of playing The Flash would be any worse as far as future typecasting than 7-8.

To me it's hard to imagine CW/WB letting him walk. They'll offer him more money than anybody has ever gotten on any show in their network's history.

Flash is doing about twice the network's average ratings and they're going to want the attention from future crossovers to help prop up newer shows like Batwoman, Stargirl, Superman and Lois, and Green Arrow and the Canaries.

As far as quality of lead actors in live action Arrowverse shows, my own opinion is:
1. John Wesley Shipp (1990 Flash)
2. Cress Williams (Black Lightning)
3. Matt Ryan (Constantine)
4. Tom Ellis (Lucifer)
---great above this line
5. Grant Gustin (The Flash)
6. Melissa Benoist (Supergirl)
7. Adam West (Batman)
8. Lynda Carter (Wonder Woman)
9. Brenton Thwaites (Titans)
---good above this line----
10. Caity Lotz (Legends of Tomorrow)
11. Ashley Scott (Birds of Prey)
12. Stephen Amell (Arrow)
---serviceable above this line, awful below----
13. Ruby Rose (Batwoman)
14. Tom Welling (Smallville)

Not really sure who to consider the lead of Doom Patrol and it's not technically Arrowverse yet (I imagine at some point it will be established as an alternate Earth of Earth-9) so I'll leave it out. Also leaving out the animated series and film actors since it's a different medium.

It's too bad we didn't get more episodes of 1990 Flash, and it's too bad Matt Ryan was given David Goyer drivel to work with on his solo series.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I don't see Grant wanting to renew after Season 7. I'm sure we'll hear news regarding most of the CW DCTV shows mass renewel, but I feel like he is done and may want to wrap up after 7. Judging from his IG, when he isn't taking a break from being attacked by westallen shippers, he appears interested in other things. He doesn't even promote the show or follow it anymore.

 

[Brierrose]

To me it's hard to imagine CW/WB letting him walk. They'll offer him more money than anybody has ever gotten on any show in their network's history.

That’s the rub it’s ultimately not the CWs choice to “let” him walk. The network can offer Grant lots of money but if his contract’s up and he wants to move on there’s nothing CW or us fans can do. I’ll bet CW offered Emily Bett Richards a boat load of money to finish Arrow’s last 10 episodes and she walked to do Broadway, which I doubt paid more. CBS would’ve paid unprecedented amounts to the cast of The Big Bang Theory for just one more season but a couple of them simply said no. Jerry Seinfeld famously ended his namesake show while it was still on top. Actors especially good ones thrive on new challenges and roles.

Bottom line is there’s a greater than zero chance that season seven will be the last. If Grant wants to walk away to pursue other things he will and that choice should be respected.

 

[famicommander]

That’s the rub it’s ultimately not the CWs choice to “let” him walk. The network can offer Grant lots of money but if his contract’s up and he wants to move on there’s nothing CW or us fans can do. I’ll bet CW offered Emily Bett Richards a boat load of money to finish Arrow’s last 10 episodes and she walked to do Broadway, which I doubt paid more. CBS would’ve paid unprecedented amounts to the cast of The Big Bang Theory for just one more season but a couple of them simply said no. Jerry Seinfeld famously ended his namesake show while it was still on top. Actors especially good ones thrive on new challenges and roles.

Bottom line is there’s a greater than zero chance that season seven will be the last. If Grant wants to walk away to pursue other things he will and that choice should be respected.

Arrow is an entirely different situation, though. Arrow is performing basically AT the league average for the network. There's no reason WB/CW would want or need to break the bank for Emily, who was replaced as female lead anyway by the Mia character.

If CW loses Flash, they lose a show that is twice as popular as any other on the network save Batwoman or Supernatural, and it will also be the longest running show with both Arrow and Supernatural ending.

I never said there was a zero chance that seven will be the last. I just have a very hard time imagining it. It cannot be stressed enough just how much more successful Flash is than any other show in the history of the CW, WB, or UPN.

In terms of performance vs the overall broadcast TV average of the time, the top 5 individual seasons of any show from those three networks are the five seasons of the Flash. Only the first two seasons of Smallville are even within a country mile.

If Grant wants to walk away he will, but it's important to understand that if he does he's likely walking away from an offer 3-5X bigger than what Amell would've been offered.

 

[Flash525]

Regardless of whether Grant would stick around, how many seasons are we genuinely happy to sit through?

Each season to date has had its ups and downs, and I’m perfectly happy to completely ignore DeVoe and Cicada.

For me, it depends on what it is exactly that’s shook up following Crisis, and where our characters are after that.

Arrow has the advantage with villains in that it could create some, and borrow from Batman. Flash doesn’t really have that option, and they’re fast exceeding their core villains. Unless Crisis resets certain troublemakers such as the rogues, I don’t see there being many core villains left to act as a seasonal bad, let along smaller arcs.

Granted my knowledge of comics isn’t that vast, but there aren’t many left, are there? How can they even go on for 11 or 12 seasons?

 

[famicommander]

There are over 70 years worth of Flash comics to pull from and they publish like 60+ Flash-related stories per year. There is a zero percent chance they run out of stories to tell.

 

[Flash525]

There are over 70 years worth of Flash comics to pull from and they publish like 60+ Flash-related stories per year. There is a zero percent chance they run out of stories to tell.

But stories without context or purpose? We’ve had a couple of lame episodes (and seasons) already. Can they really keep that up until an 11th or 12th season?

 

[famicommander]

But stories without context or purpose? We’ve had a couple of lame episodes (and seasons) already. Can they really keep that up until an 11th or 12th season?

The bad episodes or seasons we've had thus far have nothing to do with the amount of available material to draw from. It's primarily poor scripting and use of Barry's power set.

To me the show bottomed out in season 4 already. If people were willing to sit through that and come back for more, I don't see it changing any time soon.

 

[Flash525]

The bad episodes or seasons we've had thus far have nothing to do with the amount of available material to draw from. It's primarily poor scripting and use of Barry's power set.

To me the show bottomed out in season 4 already. If people were willing to sit through that and come back for more, I don't see it changing any time soon.

This has, and will continue to be a reoccurring theme with the show.

 

[batdude]

While I agree that it's in Grant's hands my gut says he's already made his decision but it's not public yet. Early renewals are usually announced at the winter meeting of the Television Critics Association, which will be in a couple of weeks. They'll probably announce a mass renewal at the winter TCA meeting and if it is the last season sometime before upfronts in May give Grant the opportunity to announce that himself like Stephen did. He may very well decide it's time to move on, no matter how much $$$ he's offered. Comic Convections are littered with actors who were typecast in superhero/syfy shows and weren't able to have successful careers after the show ended. If he resigns he's kinda sending a signal that he's not open to new projects which is not a great thing for a actor. Sometimes it's better to go out on top.

Disagree, Grant is very good but Melissa is better. She had Broadway producers contacting her and her debut was very successful. The producers of Waco said they kept expanding her part because of how good she is. I doubt if Grant had the same opportunity he would've passed on it so that means he didn't get that call. Both shouldn't have trouble finding work after their shows end.

Well, It may also depend on how much money and possibly if they let him direct/ produce the show. I think he's not going to get as much money playing anybody but Barry.

 

[Avenging Angel]

He's expressed he doesn't want to direct the show because the prep is too much for him. I don't think money is an issue with him, he can always make it doing something he likes to do.

 

[Herolee10]

But stories without context or purpose? We’ve had a couple of lame episodes (and seasons) already. Can they really keep that up until an 11th or 12th season?

I still find it surprising on how we haven't even gotten a season where Grodd was used as a big bad. I know that he's expense to portray on the show but they could have easily gotten away with that by having him control several underlings, namely the Rogues (another entity that I'm surprised we haven't gotten in full on the show as of yet), to serve his purpose.

If only we hadn't lost Captain Cold and Heatwave to Legends. Can you imagine on what a badass Rogues group would look like with Captain Cold, Heatwave, Hamil's Trickster, and the Weather Wizard?

 

[Avenging Angel]

Bringing it back to Season 1 vibes would actually make the show great again, they don't want that.

 

[Dark Raven]

If Grant Gustin does quit, they can always bring in a remnant or temporal duplicate of him to play instead.

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly, I hope that Grant stays on board long enough to do a mini crossover with just the upcoming Superman and Lois series.

 

[vantheman77]

Honestly, I hope that Grant stays on board long enough to do a mini crossover with just the upcoming Superman and Lois series.

A super-speed race between them is a must.

 

[flickchick85]

Given how little he's worked outside of The Flash during his time on the show compared to, say, Melissa Benoist, I took Grant for a Jensen Ackles/Jared Padalecki type who's perfectly happy to have this show be his livelihood for as long as he can, as he can always live off the convention life (which is shockingly good money for those folks) when he's done. So if he doesn't renew his contract, I'll be surprised. Regardless of whether the show has run out of steam creatively. That rarely stops anyone in network TV when the show's still on top in the ratings, lol.

 

[The Shape]

The series has been renewed. Gustin will be back, I'm sure.

But maybe they can get rid of Ralph for this season? Fingers crossed.

 

[batdude]

Given how little he's worked outside of The Flash during his time on the show compared to, say, Melissa Benoist, I took Grant for a Jensen Ackles/Jared Padalecki type who's perfectly happy to have this show be his livelihood for as long as he can, as he can always live off the convention life (which is shockingly good money for those folks) when he's done. So if he doesn't renew his contract, I'll be surprised. Regardless of whether the show has run out of steam creatively. That rarely stops anyone in network TV when the show's still on top in the ratings, lol.

Grant doesn't do a lot of conventions either. Certainly not in comparison to Jensen/Jared or Stephen Amell. Melissa does some and also does talk shows. I actually wish we could get Candice Patton to go on Fallon or Kimmel to promote the show.

 

[flickchick85]

The series has been renewed. Gustin will be back, I'm sure.

I was referring to when his contract is up after next season. Most of these guys are initially contracted for 7 seasons (except maybe Melissa since she signed on w/ CBS), I believe. He'll obviously be back next season, but I think the show's fate beyond that depends on contract negotiations. They'll either continue on for several more seasons if he wants to renew, or have him do like they did with Amell and sign him up for a shortened final season for the 8th one. But as I said, I suspect he'll be up for more.

 

[Flash525]

If only we hadn't lost Captain Cold and Heatwave to Legends. Can you imagine on what a badass Rogues group would look like with Captain Cold, Heatwave, Hamil's Trickster, and the Weather Wizard?

The Rogues are one key element that the Flash writers well and truly screwed up. They should, from day one, have been a reoccurring theme throughout each and every season.

I would like to hope that Crisis resets elements of reality, and in turn resets the Rogues so that they all exist again (and could easily be portrayed by different people). It's the only sure way to reintroduce them, but I think I'm being very optimistic with this line of thinking.

If Grant Gustin does quit, they can always bring in a remnant or temporal duplicate of him to play instead.

They'd still need Gustin to play the part of a remnant or duplicate though...

 

[NotGoodAtNames]

The series has been renewed. Gustin will be back, I'm sure.

But maybe they can get rid of Ralph for this season? Fingers crossed.

This show has made it very clear that they're not getting rid of any characters unless the actors wanted out. All other series regulars were intended to be just one season character except for Eddie?