The Flash The Flash season 2 episode 11 "The Reverse Flash Returns"

[The Shape]

Barry has been kept alive/resurrected/protected by the Speed Force (outside of time) in the comics before.

 

[SpideyVille]

I think they're going with the concept that Time is an "evolving" process where things are always replaced and altered as events unfold.

The best example that I can think of is from the film "Back to the Future". Remember the scene where Marty comes back from the past and tries to save the older version of Doc Brown but ends up witnessing the event unfold the same way, with his "past" self driving the car into the past (thus setting up the events of the film)?

I think they're going with that route. So even though RF was technically erased from existence, the events of the present day still need to be set for that event to have taken place. So in other words, RF still needed to come to the past (present day) in order to set the stage for him to kill Barry's mom later on so that everything could lead up to where things are at now, just like in "Back to the Future".

Well from what they said, it seems like Thawne will go on to learn more and more about Barry as his time goes on, until finally one day he comes up with the plan to kill his mother, which he is ultimately successful in doing in this timeline.

But what I don't get is why did capturing the RF cause history to change, but saving Dr McGee have no impact?

I get that this can all get very confusing very fast and they want to simplify it as much as possible, but I feel like they could have spent a little more time explaining or showing things as opposed to a few lines here and there that are basically supposed to summarize everything.

 

[Headliner]

Edit please delete

 

[Headliner]

There is no logical explanation for the Reverse Flash return. The writers screwed up and this is where the show has officially fell off a cliff for me. This season was already "meh" to "ok", but I am a logic freak and hate when things are done that doesn't make sense.

I understand with comics that sometimes you have to suspend your belief, but with this particular storyline I just can't.

 

[SpideyVille]

I get that this RF is from the original timeline, but what I don't get is why did they basically write it so that Thawne now knows what will work to get to Barry and who to come after, because the major players basically told her what worked in their timeline.

 

[Paradox1]

I get that, but what I'm saying is they implied that he hates Barry so much, despite this being the first time they meet.

That's what always confused me about the character to begin with. Every video I've seen and explanation I've heard basically says he is a huge fan of the Flash, to the point where he tries to become him but fails, and discovers that he's actually his arch nemesis. But I've never heard why, other than because he's destined to.

Nothing I've ever read about Thawne or had Thawne in it has ever made his hate for Barry made any more sense. But if I had to compare it to a real life I'd say he's the emo goth death worshiping teenager. The kid who believes if we are all destined to die what the point of life. He's seen his fate and feels as though he can't change it which turns all his anger, hate, and hopelessness on the person he feels is most responsible. As if he killed Barry than he can become the hero, and change his fate.

 

[Herolee10]

Well from what they said, it seems like Thawne will go on to learn more and more about Barry as his time goes on, until finally one day he comes up with the plan to kill his mother, which he is ultimately successful in doing in this timeline.

But what I don't get is why did capturing the RF cause history to change, but saving Dr McGee have no impact?

I get that this can all get very confusing very fast and they want to simplify it as much as possible, but I feel like they could have spent a little more time explaining or showing things as opposed to a few lines here and there that are basically supposed to summarize everything.

I do admit that there are a few plot holes going around. I think that given on how "Time Traveling" really doesn't have any real established rules out there, the Producers use that as a crutch to support some of their more outlandish ideas.

I think the reason why Cisco was being affected was because the RF needed to go back into the Future as originally intended in order to establish the events of Season 1 where he ultimately goes back into the past again and assumes Harrison Wells's identity to create the Particle Accelerator, which results in Cisco's powers.

Course you'd think that if Present Day Cisco was being affected that, then Barry should have felt the same effects since he received his powers from Thawne's intervention.

 

[zenith16]

Yeah, like I'm not a huge Flash fan or know much from the comics, but I understood the backstory so I know what's the motivation behind Thawne. But I feel like he's the type of villain that you're tempted to feel sympathetic for in terms of their origin, and the actor tried his best to get that across in the short scene, but I feel like that story had so much potential to be more compelling and heart wrenching if we actually saw him go from a huge Flash fan to a bitter and distraught nemesis.

I don't mind him being as badass as Cavanagh's performance, because those are really two different versions of the same character from different points in time, but I feel the writing and pacing really held this episode back, which is a shame because there were so many cool moments.

with the actor that played Thawne/ reverse flash with in this episode it would have done more service if they showed his back story via flash backs like they did earth 2 Dr. wells and that he was linked to zoom with this event or was left in this season longer.

So we can see a throw down between the two before he was sent back. A nd we know the reason why reverse flash turned evil while Barry was his hero needs to shown. simple as that.

as to what happened with Cisco him fading out of existence I felt was due to his confrontation with revers flash and showing him self to him early to bad the story went else where and said other wise,cause it would have made more sense if that was the case.

Cisco showed him self to thawne and some where down the line if Reverse flash escapes he knows about the star labs team due to an earlier encounter which cisco endangered him self cause he made sure to have RF see his face.

cautionary tale about how barry and the star labs team keep making the mistake of showing their face's to the villains that they are their captors in the pipe line secret holding cells in star labs.

Kinda like barry former bully and the fact that turtle who was serial killer starting with his wife and tried to do the same to patty saw Cisco and the others face's minus barry who kept his mask on the only difference here is those were killed so they didn't get a chance to make barry pay while RF was sent back which should have been the reason Cisco was fading from existence. cause they aren't careful enough with their own lives. he shouldn't have noticed the star labs team present day. simple as that.

 

[zhulok]

Hunter Zolomon definitely feels like a red herring for Zoom, which makes me wonder if Earth 2 Jay Garrick is actually Zoom. I cant remember at the moment but other than in Jay's stories about his fight with Zoom, have we actually seen both of them in the same room? This feels like the kind of twist the writers would try to pull on us.

 

[Herolee10]

Hunter Zolomon definitely feels like a red herring for Zoom, which makes me wonder if Earth 2 Jay Garrick is actually Zoom. I cant remember at the moment but other than in Jay's stories about his fight with Zoom, have we actually seen both of them in the same room? This feels like the kind of twist the writers would try to pull on us.

Unless Jay is able to change the color of his Speed-Force Lightning, then Jay can't be Zoom secretly in disguise as Jay's lightning is yellow like Barry's whereas Zoom's is bluish/white.

 

[Broseph44]

I ****ing loved this episode and everything involving Reverse Flash.

Same. I've greatly loved and enjoyed this show since season 1. It never fails to please me.

 

[DigificWriter]

I think I've said this before, but if I haven't, I'm saying it now. I don't think Zoom has an alter-ego of any kind, and is just Zoom (and a combination of the Black Flash and Zoom characters).

 

[iamjoeking]

I like this version of the Reverse Flash! Well done.

 

[HighFivingMF]

There is no logical explanation for the Reverse Flash return. The writers screwed up and this is where the show has officially fell off a cliff for me. This season was already "meh" to "ok", but I am a logic freak and hate when things are done that doesn't make sense.

I understand with comics that sometimes you have to suspend your belief, but with this particular storyline I just can't.

Time travel is made up.

 

[Broseph44]

I regret coming in here anymore to discuss this awesome show that is of of my favorites. So many stupid posts and comments in here now always. Yikes. Guess I will just PM people I wanna discuss with or something.

 

[The Shape]

I regret coming in here anymore to discuss this awesome show that is of of my favorites. So many stupid posts and comments in here now always. Yikes. Guess I will just PM people I wanna discuss with or something.

I don't get it. What's the problem?

 

[Avenging Angel]

Great episode! I was waiting for something like this to pick up the show.

The awesome thing mostly is that Barry CAN actually fight when he wants to. He gets his ass kicked in every single battle, it was almost shocking to see him take down Thawne in a clear knockout. I wish the writers would explore the angst side of Barry more than the faux brooding, vocal fry he always does. He's such a moper. Here he looked like someone with a backbone. It was so easy to take RF out. Barry needs to be written this way, he would appear much closer to the comics since Grant looks nothing like Barry Allen at all.

Jay's doppelganger being Hunter Zolomon? Interesting, though I'm still thinking that Jay has ties to Zoom since he is only telling this information now. And also, with Caitlin, she's the only one he hasn't hurt yet. Notice that? Maybe he genuinely likes her, if he is Zoom it would make sense. All the team members have been hurt one way or another from Zoom, but Caitlin is spared, why? He might be Zoom, the writers are trying to throw this out there to see how we react. Jay is definitely still in the running for Zoom.

Finally Cisco is tolerable again. Harry helping him to trigger his powers got them closer together. The scene where he was vibing out of control is straight of from the disappearing picture of Marty McFly's siblings. There was so much Back to the Future references in this episode it almost felt like a tribute. Thawne being a super fan gone dark was cool to see. At least we know what the rivalry was about.

The West soap opera was a bit much, I didn't despise Iris in this, but it seems like she's only got this story line to go on. Better than nothing.

Can't wait for the Earth-2 visits!

 

[Broseph44]

There is no logical explanation for the Reverse Flash return. The writers screwed up and this is where the show has officially fell off a cliff for me. This season was already "meh" to "ok", but I am a logic freak and hate when things are done that doesn't make sense.

I understand with comics that sometimes you have to suspend your belief, but with this particular storyline I just can't.

^

I don't get it. What's the problem?

It's posts like the one above. Complaining about trying to apply logic to a comic book show involving time travel because he's a logic freak. Meanwhile like highfiving said time travel is already made up to begin with. It's just so silly and dumb to try and apply logic and complain about it. Where's the logic in a mind controlling gorilla, or anything else that goes on in this show or in any comic book tv show/film/comic book itself. Come on now.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

There is no logical explanation for the Reverse Flash return. The writers screwed up and this is where the show has officially fell off a cliff for me. This season was already "meh" to "ok", but I am a logic freak and hate when things are done that doesn't make sense.

I understand with comics that sometimes you have to suspend your belief, but with this particular storyline I just can't.

good lord.

Time travel is made up.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I love how they decided to not make CB women stupid now, it's fair that she figures it out on her own, and that nothing made her doubt what she found.
Too bad about Barry's id being known to yet another person though.

It's really awesome to see Barry beat the crap out of Eobard Thawne, it's a refreshing change after not being able to stand against him mano-a-mano before.

There is no logical explanation for the Reverse Flash return. The writers screwed up and this is where the show has officially fell off a cliff for me. This season was already "meh" to "ok", but I am a logic freak and hate when things are done that doesn't make sense.

I understand with comics that sometimes you have to suspend your belief, but with this particular storyline I just can't.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I thought it was an ok episode, I hated the stuff with Patty, she was awesome and the perfect fit for him, and instead they write her out and in the process make Barry look an idiot and treat her like a jerk.

The RF stuff was solid and I don't worry about trying to fathom time travel stuff out lol. I kept expecting Wells to have some ulterior motive and be orchestrating what happened to Cisco, as the bleeding occurred after he used the goggles Wells gave him.

The Hunter Zolomon reveal from Jay was nicely done, I expect big things to come from that!

I liked Iris in this ep, I wish they'd do more with her journalistic side and get her involved in a meatier storyline. I hope Wally's sour faced, chip on the shoulder routine ends soon.

The action sequence at the beginning where Barry stopped the Big Rig was one of the coolest things the show has done to date!

 

[Astro13Zombie]

This cracked me up.

 

[The Shape]

I thought it was an ok episode, I hated the stuff with Patty, she was awesome and the perfect fit for him, and instead they write her out and in the process make Barry look an idiot and treat her like a jerk.

She's obviously not gone for good. Her finding out his identity will definitely serve some purpose later in the season.

I liked how that was done, also. The way he just stopped blurring his face.

 

[Guard82]

I liked this episode a lot. The Reverse-Flash stuff was great. I liked how this episode further fleshed out the rivalry between Barry and Thawne, and gave us a closer look at Thawne's motivations. It was interesting how Thawne had idolized the Flash but came to hate him because he thought he could never truly be like him, because he thought his future was unchangeable, and he thought he had to be content with stealing from the Flash because he could never actually be the Flash.

The action was really nice, with the truck scene in the opening and the fight between Flash and Reverse-Flash. It was great to see that Barry was able to come out on top in the fight with Thawne. This made sense, because Barry has been training hard lately to take on Zoom, so it makes sense that his speed and strength would be significantly greater by now. And Thawne probably wasn't expecting that.

Cisco and Wells had some great moments too. Patty was great as always, but it was still a shame to see her leave since she's been a great addition to the cast. At least this episode gave her a better sendoff than last week's episode would have done. The fact that she figured out for herself that Barry is the Flash was a nice touch, and I was glad that happened.

The only problem I had with this episode was that the West family subplot and the Jay/Caitlin subplot felt crammed in. Both subplots were mostly well-written and well-acted, but they made the episode feel overcrowded. There was already so much going on with the Reverse-Flash story and the Patty story that it might have been better to save the West family and Jay/Caitlin stuff for another episode.

Still, the Hunter Zolomon angle was interesting, with him being an Earth-1 version of Jay in this show. I wonder how that will tie in with the larger plot of this season.

 

[ParissMonae]

Hello this episode has totally confused me as to what's going on....even though they explained it in the show of how the reverse flash returned I'm still at lost.....how is it possible that he has returned if the Flash got rid of his existence in the previous season.....who the hell is Eobard and why is he now in the place that the original Dr. Wells once was in....please explain