The Flash The Flash Season 3 episode 19 "The Once and Future Flash"

[Spider-Aziz]

A cool moment I did not comment on is when future Barry followed Sam into the mirror.

 

[Herolee10]

Now I know that the popular belief is that Savitar is either a altered version of Barry, Eddie, or Ronnie but there seems to be one problem with all of that though.

Now unless they're about to recton something, Jay said that he has previously heard on how Savitar has conquered other Earths by sending avatars in the formation of the Dr. Alchemy persona to create new servants. So that would mean that he has been doing this for some time.

Also, Savitar said on how he has already experienced the events that team flash are going through and how Barry will be present when Savitar is created in the present.

Man, there's like several paradoxes here.lol

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Lee, you bring the thought that he's the time remnant of Hunter Zolomon back to me.

 

[Thome216]

I liked the episode. I still don't really care who Savitar really is.

I laughed at how they tried to make future Barry seem older by the sound of his voice and him looking a little bit older. And that hair was too funny.

He did look like an emo kid!t:

 

[Herolee10]

Lee, you bring the thought that he's the time remnant of Hunter Zolomon back to me.

Even if Savitar is already a speedster in his regular form, why does he need the mechanized suit? So many questions that I hope will be answered in due time.

 

[Gaultheria]

Even if Savitar is already a speedster in his regular form, why does he need the mechanized suit?

The suit could be a big version of the tachyon booster that Barry uses. That would explain how Savitar is so much faster than other speedsters.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Even if Savitar is already a speedster in his regular form, why does he need the mechanized suit? So many questions that I hope will be answered in due time.

Expect messy answers.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Totally think it is Barry as the big bad.

At this point, there's no doubt in my mind that Savitar already said who he was when he said "I'm the future Flash."

It also tells me that they already have a way to defeat Savitar. Cisco has that device tuned to Barry's frequency that can slow down his speed.

 

[Gaultheria]

At this point, there's no doubt in my mind that Savitar already said who he was when he said "I'm the future Flash."

It also tells me that they already have a way to defeat Savitar. Cisco has that device tuned to Barry's frequency that can slow down his speed.

Caitlin's problem could be foreshadowing for Barry, if Barry contracts Speed Force poisoning after having Cisco increase the power of the tachyon booster in an effort to match Savitar's speed.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Such a great episode! I had no doubt Killer Frost was gonna slay. I love her interactions with Barry, from the future and present.

Really loved Cisco in this, even though everyone was broken, he never gave up when Barry did.

That teaser though, Killer Frost's reaction to Savitar's identity. There's no other person I can think of than Future Barry. It's definitely him.

 

[Guard82]

This was a very cool episode. The performances from the whole cast were excellent.

However, I'm still confused as to why Caitlin is so prone to turning evil when she uses her powers. I don't understand why her powers have this kind of effect on her mind/personality when none of the other team members seem to have this problem with their powers. For example, Cisco never seems to be in danger of turning evil when he uses his powers. Caitlin is shown to be at risk of turning into Killer Frost, her evil Earth-2 counterpart, but so far Cisco hasn't shown any signs of turning into his evil Earth-2 counterpart, Reverb. I'm still not clear on why that is. I like Danielle's performances as Caitlin and Killer Frost, but I'm still very confused about why she has this whole Jekyll-and-Hyde problem and Cisco doesn't.

 

[Mike Murdock]

That teaser though, Killer Frost's reaction to Savitar's identity. There's no other person I can think of than Future Barry. It's definitely him.

Just to add to my thoughts. In addition to him saying he's "the future Flash" (obviously intended for us to think there was a comma there), he also said he was the first speedster, but they've been trying to imply he was created in the future. To me, I can't think of any other explanation.

 

[Loki882]

This was a very cool episode. The performances from the whole cast were excellent.

However, I'm still confused as to why Caitlin is so prone to turning evil when she uses her powers. I don't understand why her powers have this kind of effect on her mind/personality when none of the other team members seem to have this problem with their powers. For example, Cisco never seems to be in danger of turning evil when he uses his powers. Caitlin is shown to be at risk of turning into Killer Frost, her evil Earth-2 counterpart, but so far Cisco hasn't shown any signs of turning into his evil Earth-2 counterpart, Reverb. I'm still not clear on why that is. I like Danielle's performances as Caitlin and Killer Frost, but I'm still very confused about why she has this whole Jekyll-and-Hyde problem and Cisco doesn't.

Ronnie never seemed in danger of turning into his evil AU counterpart either. That's part of the problem, of the main group, ONLY Caitlin has this problem. And even ignoring how iffy the whole "the only full-time female team member with powers, is the one who cannot use them without going crazy/evil" is on it's own, the other big flaw is that the show simply refuses to really explain WHY her powers are doing this. So it leads to a hole in the narrative there as well.

I don't know why they aren't using Caitlin's comic story. Where she needs other people's body heat to stay warm and not DIE! Then one day she goes to far and kills someone and realizes how much better she feels. We could see her struggle with not wanting to kill but her need to stay warm overrides that.

Then Team Flash can invent some science thing that helps with her body temperature. So she can still use her powers and not have to kill.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Totally think it is Barry as the big bad.

At this point, there's no doubt in my mind that Savitar already said who he was when he said "I'm the future Flash."

It also tells me that they already have a way to defeat Savitar. Cisco has that device tuned to Barry's frequency that can slow down his speed.

Why would Caitlin trust Barry when she doesn't trust Barry?

 

[Guard82]

Ronnie never seemed in danger of turning into his evil AU counterpart either. That's part of the problem, of the main group, ONLY Caitlin has this problem. And even ignoring how iffy the whole "the only full-time female team member with powers, is the one who cannot use them without going crazy/evil" is on it's own, the other big flaw is that the show simply refuses to really explain WHY her powers are doing this. So it leads to a hole in the narrative there as well.

I don't know why they aren't using Caitlin's comic story. Where she needs other people's body heat to stay warm and not DIE! Then one day she goes to far and kills someone and realizes how much better she feels. We could see her struggle with not wanting to kill but her need to stay warm overrides that.

Then Team Flash can invent some science thing that helps with her body temperature. So she can still use her powers and not have to kill.

I like this idea. It would be better if the show used an explanation similar to the one you've described. It would make more sense and it would still give Danielle ample opportunity for more of her compelling performances.

Some kind of explanation Caitlin's problem is needed because, as you said, she's the only team member with this problem. The only other person who's had a similar problem is Julian, when he was turning into Doctor Alchemy periodically. But Julian seems cured of that problem for now and hasn't shown any signs of becoming Alchemy again. Well, there's still time left in the season, and I hope they do something good with Caitlin's arc.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

There was also Magenta early this season whose powers caused her to go psycho.

 

[shabadoo25]

I don't get the KF criticism.

Most of the posts on here are about how "the same" everything is. So Caitlin turns evil with her powers. So what? There's no reason they need to be consistent with this.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Why would Caitlin trust Barry when she doesn't trust Barry?

Killer Frost could see that a Barry who would kill Iris West would be an entirely different ballgame.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't get the KF criticism.

Most of the posts on here are about how "the same" everything is. So Caitlin turns evil with her powers. So what? There's no reason they need to be consistent with this.

Because "different" is not the same as "good". There are *countless* things they could add to the show that would be both different and terrible. They could have an extended subplot where Barry hunts an arbitrarily invincible serial killer, who constantly evades Barry through the power of "He forgets literally all his powers". They could murder the entire supporting cast, and have Barry realize this means he must forever be a solo hero who keeps his secret from everyone. Etc.

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly I wonder why the Legends have not gotten more involved with Barry's affairs considering on how many times that time travel has played a factor in the series.

I mean are they not capable of detecting any disturbances caused by Barry or other speedsters to the timeline?

How they weren't aware of Abra Kadabra is also beyond me.

 

[Mike Murdock]

They're a little busy.

 

[Herolee10]

They're a little busy.

They weren't that busy at the start of their second season. The whole storyline with the Legion and the spear didn't pick up until near the mid season finale. But before then, they were just going after any time disturbances. The whole Flashpoint period should have been something that they would have picked up on.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Killer Frost could see that a Barry who would kill Iris West would be an entirely different ballgame.

Could he be a Barry from an alternate Earth? I'd sure buy into that more than I would if he's the future Barry of Earth-1, or perhaps Earth-3, which should be impossible.

 

[flashpo1nt]

so what have we gathered from this episode and what questions do we have!?

Is wally faster than barry or not, if he is then barry can't claim being the fastest man alive. He used wally to get to the future, what about barry isn't he going to get faster...seems like all speedsters are equal to him or better?!

Who is savitar....well there's too many contradictions from the writers which makes it hard to determine who he is.

we know it will shock barry, we know savitar was the first speedster and gave himself his speed, we know other speedsters like jay know about savitar.

The contradictions, well they showed a clip of savitar from behind and he looks nothing like barry allen in terms of physique.

Barry was never the first speedster to get speed, so how can it be a future barry...makes no sense, future, past present barry allen still wasn't the first speedster.

Jay was one of the first speedsters, could be him but an alternate version of him.

Some say its wally, well why would he destroy another version of himself and break your spine?

Savitar gave himself his speed, barry got his by freak accident...now we can say the speedforce chose barry but barry didn't purposely give himself speed unless you count the time when zoom stole barry's speed and harry had to get barry's speed back.

So sure i guess they could go with a bad version of barry allen from another earth sort of like in smallville when clark had to tangle with bizarro basically an opposite version of himself...the writers could be going with something similar.

Some ask about the suit, well it could be a tachyon suit it has those blue lights on it so they could be powering him up.

zoom used the velocity drugs to get faster, so a suit with tachyon tech would make sense.

Some say eddie and that could be a good guess too, but whoever savitar is the writers will have to make sure that all those questions are answered....revealing savitar as another version of barry allen leaves all those other questions with no answers that would not make sense.

doesn't matter if you take a past, present, or future barry allen he wasn't the first speedster to be granted speed, there were others long before him....using the alternate earths is just an easy way to create another version of the real version, i hope they don't go with some simple explanation like that.

i liked the future suit it looks pretty good, also wanted to point out that savitar seemed to appear after barry created flashpoint.

in the early seasons when showing that future clip it was iris west that wrote that same article, after barry created flashpoint the article was then writen by someone else.

so that makes me wonder if barry creating flashpoint also created savitar guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Just to add to my thoughts. In addition to him saying he's "the future Flash" (obviously intended for us to think there was a comma there), he also said he was the first speedster, but they've been trying to imply he was created in the future. To me, I can't think of any other explanation.

I never once thought there was a comma there. I keep recalling the message he sent to the legends in the "Invasion!" crossover episode that had him stating "don't trust anyone, including me."