The Flash The Flash season 2 episode 23 "The Race of His Life"

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get robert queen in on flashpoint in place of thomas wayne
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Seeing "skeleton Hunter" being taken away by the Time Wraiths...
Black Flash when?

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Theory: the Time Wraiths are, effectively, remnants of Zoom, spun off by the Speed Force in response to excess speedster-induced paradox. Its his punishment for abuses of the Speed Force- he is a ravening, tormented weapon, enslaved to a will other than his own. . . and not only will he be, forever, but he always was.
 
I don't hate the idea of them doing flashpoint, but I'm not feeling too excited about it.
Mostly just because it's hard to guess where they might go with it.
They don't have access to the appropriate characters that made the original story so interesting.
I suppose Supergirl could takes Superman's place though? so there's that.

I'm sure it will be interesting.
Not excited for the specific story but I'm excited for more flash. :p
 
If this does effect the other shows, this could help them bring Super-Girl into the same universe. Right? Since it's the same station they can now put her in the same universe I guess.
 
I am looking forward to season where Flash is villain and Reverse Flash is hero. This season was for me dragged to much If we got 12 episodes instead 23 I would probably liked it. But season just felt bland with all filler in between
 
I liked them setting up a mini Crisis. The Series finale is surely a big crisis crossover with Wally taking up the mantle so I like them setting up the red skies and the disintegration.

Flashpoint-verse. Ronnie Raymond lives only to die again. Come on Berlanti, you must!
 
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So...was it the Barry who went back in time to recruit his past self to defeat Zoom that sacrificed himself or is it the other way around?

And just how far back does anyone think he went? Like a couple of seconds?
 
Um, the only thing I'm seriously unhappy about is Harry and Jesse leaving. I hope they find some way to bring them back next season (for example, with this whole Flashpoint Crisis thing going on, maybe E1 Harrison Wells is never killed and replaced by Thawne, so he survives and is on the show, and Jesse is born on E1, too). The show would take a massive blow without Harry, and I really enjoyed Jesse and Wally's chemistry and was rooting for the two of them.
 
So the Flash that is erased from existence after Barry saves his mom from being killed, is the Flash from season 1 hence why he smiled before disappearing. …

In the original timeline, Barry's mom isn't killed, she's killed when Thawne comes back to tries to kill Barry, so isn't Barry simply putting the time line back to it's original form by saving his mom..?
 
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Yeah, I'm really hoping Harrison comes back, though I'm iffy on how well that will play out...there's only so many times you can make viewers say good bye to a character and turn around and change it.

Did anyone else feel like the acting in this episode was really bad? The show tends to have some wooden acting mixed in with generally decent/good moments, but this episode felt especially wooden and awkward.
 
So...was it the Barry who went back in time to recruit his past self to defeat Zoom that sacrificed himself or is it the other way around?

And just how far back does anyone think he went? Like a couple of seconds?

If I remember correctly, Barry says he only went back in time a few seconds, to "right before he left". Honestly, that part of the climax was unnecessary and it was awkward and convoluted and Other Berry's sacrifice had no weight whatsoever.

If this does effect the other shows, this could help them bring Super-Girl into the same universe. Right? Since it's the same station they can now put her in the same universe I guess.

Aren't they already in the same universe? Flash was featured in an episode of Supergirl a few months ago, but I heard that they are planning for a big team up with Supergirl, Flash and Arrow next season.
 
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In the season 1 finale were there 2 Barry's or 3 present at the house? I know one ran young Barry out the house, and there was one hiding in the closet to stop Barry from saving his mom..but i can't remember if there was a third….

..and know this time around there was 3; one that was hiding in the closet, one that ran his younger self outside and then the one that saved his mom…i think….
 
This episode gets a 10 for Zoom's ghastly demise and the iron mask payoff alone.
 
Legends won't be affected by what Barry does cause they are time travelers and immune to the changes . However everyone else is fair game it would be beyond stupid of the Arrow writers and Berlanti not to have this event effect the entire universe.

Well, they have done many "beyond stupid" things in the Berlantiverse, so be ready for more just in case. ;)

The episode was not as good as the Season 1 finale, the writing was off like Season 2 was for the most part. First, Zoom wanted his lame Earth-2 minions to kill Barry; then, he just wanted to steal his speed to be faster, and finally, he wanted to destroy the Multiverse because... the writers could not come up with a better idea. At least, Eobard Thawne had clear and logical motivations.

It's funny how Zoom was so unbeatable all season, but when they needed to get him without Barry, suddenly and very conveniently team Flash could handle him, making Zoom even less impressive in the process. Bravo writers! :o

This whole time remnants gimmick is just lazy and nonsensical, your past self can die, but you will continue to live in the present just fine, yeah right... with this "logic", Berlanti & co could have another Zoom out there, so when they run out of ideas again, bring him back and tada!!

Then we have the time wraiths, very conveniently appearing just in time so Barry didn't have to kill Hunter (cop out!!). They could've intervened earlier to take care of Zoom, but it wasn't convenient of course, so they didn't. The show would be better off without these gimmicks.

On the ending, here we go again with Barry acting like an idiot. This would've made more sense last season when he had less experience, not now, specially after being in the Speed Force. Instead of moving forward, he repeats the same mistakes over and over. Yes, he lost his dad, but he still has Joe, Iris, Wally, friends, people that love him, a whole city that loves him, but no, is not enough, undoing the progress he made in the Speed Force. :cmad:

Regarding the consequences of Barry saving Nora:

Logically, it should change the entire DCTVU. Arrow should be different in Season 5, Legends of Tomorrow... For example, Barry would never go to Starling City like he did on Arrow 2x08 The Scientist, him and Oliver would never meet and become friends.

And if they do a Flashpoint adaptation, is not going to be as epic, Arrow is not going to be without Oliver for several episodes, Legends has already set its own story for Season 2, they're not going to undo it. I won't be surprised if Barry realizes that he doesn't want the life he's created by saving Nora and this gets undone in the Season 3 premiere, and everything snaps back into place, except for a change or two. It wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility, The Flash's time travel barely has rules, it has altered its timeline without any consequences to other shows.

I think they should do a Crisis, something really epic affecting the Multiverse and changing it for good, creating a new reality, a new Earth-1, where Superman, Supergirl, the Martian Manhunter, but also Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, the whole DCU exists. This stupid policy of only having one version of these characters is unnecessary, they should get rid of it, Geoff Johns has more power now, but maybe not enough to make it happen, time will tell.
 
Aren't they already in the same universe? Flash was featured in an episode of Supergirl a few months ago, but I heard that they are planning for a big team up with Supergirl, Flash and Arrow next season.

Nope, Supergirl is on a different Earth, that's why Superman has never been mentioned on the CW shows:

Supergirl and Superman don’t exist on Barry’s Earth-1 — which is set in a continuity known as the “Arrowverse,” since it encompasses all of the superhero shows spawned by The CW’s “Arrow,” including “The Flash,” “DC’s Legends of Tomorrow” and animated series “Vixen” — Barry’s ability to travel through time and space means that he’s capable of paying a visit to other DC Comics-based shows (even on other networks) without disrupting anyone’s reality.

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/the-flash-supergirl-crossover-spoilers-poster-plot-1201726315/
 
i absolutely loved this episode... and finding out who the man in the iron mask was, i loved it.

John Wesley Shipp, IMO, is an awesome actor. :up:
 
In the season 1 finale were there 2 Barry's or 3 present at the house? I know one ran young Barry out the house, and there was one hiding in the closet to stop Barry from saving his mom..but i can't remember if there was a third….
There were two, the one in the closet wanted to save his mom, but followed his older self from an alternate timeline order to not interfere.
 
There were two, the one in the closet wanted to save his mom, but followed his older self from an alternate timeline order to not interfere.

I'm pretty sure their were 3.

  • Original Time Line Flash that whizzed Young Barry away from the Reverse Flash
  • Season 1 Barry in the closet
  • Season 2 Barry stopping the Reverse Flash from killing his mum.
 
The episode was not as good as the Season 1 finale, the writing was off like Season 2 was for the most part.
I can't disagree with this. Season 2 was certainly not as concisely written as season 1. Still leagues above most shows on tv, imo.

First, Zoom wanted his lame Earth-2 minions to kill Barry;
I don't think this was the case. Felt like every villain zoom sent at Barry was an attempt to either make Barry faster so he had more speed to steal.
then, he just wanted to steal his speed to be faster, and finally,
he wanted to destroy the Multiverse because... the writers could not come up with a better idea. At least, Eobard Thawne had clear and logical motivations.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Zoom is a sociopath. Thawne isn't. Thawne was acting logically, Zoom wasn't a logical character. He was very literally out of his mind.

I didn't mind the whole shift to destroy the multiverse thing, made sense to me. He realized that the only sure fire way to make sure he was the fastest man alive, was to destroy everywhere else.
It's funny how Zoom was so unbeatable all season, but when they needed to get him without Barry, suddenly and very conveniently team Flash could handle him, making Zoom even less impressive in the process. Bravo writers! :o

Yeah, this was the weakest part imo. I mean, it's been shown to have the team tranq zoom before to deal with him. It didn't necessarily make zoom less powerful to me, but certainly kinda stupid.

This whole time remnants gimmick is just lazy and nonsensical, your past self can die, but you will continue to live in the present just fine, yeah right... with this "logic", Berlanti & co could have another Zoom out there, so when they run out of ideas again, bring him back and tada!!

This was something I was struggling with too. It creates a paradox, If Barry went back in time, to do something other than the steps that brought him there, then he would have never gone back in time to begin the chain.

IF the writers have figured that bit out, they certainly haven't explained it well enough.

Then we have the time wraiths, very conveniently appearing just in time so Barry didn't have to kill Hunter (cop out!!). They could've intervened earlier to take care of Zoom, but it wasn't convenient of course, so they didn't. The show would be better off without these gimmicks.

This bit was actually explained in the episode. Barry bringing in the second Barry is what summoned the time wraiths. So, yes, I guess it was convenient. The same way that people showing up to a party they're invited to, in convenient.

On the ending, here we go again with Barry acting like an idiot. This would've made more sense last season when he had less experience, not now, specially after being in the Speed Force. Instead of moving forward, he repeats the same mistakes over and over. Yes, he lost his dad, but he still has Joe, Iris, Wally, friends, people that love him, a whole city that loves him, but no, is not enough, undoing the progress he made in the Speed Force. :cmad:

I disagree. Yes, it's stupid. But Barry doesn't see it that way. He's clearly not thinking things through, just acting on his emotions. He went back the first time, and played by the rules, and then had a year of hell to show for it.

It's selfish, and short-sighted. But I don't think it's out of character at all.
 
I'm pretty sure their were 3.

  • Original Time Line Flash that whizzed Young Barry away from the Reverse Flash
  • Season 1 Barry in the closet
  • Season 2 Barry stopping the Reverse Flash from killing his mum.

That's what i thought too. The one that whizzed young Barry out of his house disappears after he does that IIRC, hence why Reverse Flash then kills his mom instead.....

I need to re-watch that s1 ep again.........

Now again, by preventing the death of his mom, isn't Barry simply restoring the timeline to it's original form because Reverse Flash traveling back and killing his mom is what created the alternate timeline we now know....?
 
I wonder how they'll have him getting his speed back next season?
They already did something very similar to what he does in flashpoint THIS season.
I think they could have saved that one. :funny:

Really curious to see how this all turns out.
 
I wonder how they'll have him getting his speed back next season?
They already did something very similar to what he does in flashpoint THIS season.
I think they could have saved that one. :funny:

Really curious to see how this all turns out.

Harrison Wells will help him (again!). Like you said, the show is getting redundant by repeating plots and villains, Reverse Flash is going to be the villain again, at least for several episodes. Unless they decide to do something a bit different, like Barry keeping his speed and returning to a very nightmarish Earth-1, and once he realizes his mistake, goes back to when Nora died (again!) and lets her once again, die. Too many agains, unfortunately, that's how stale the show is getting.
 
I am 95% sure that "waves off s1 Barry" Flash is going to be the Flash from early s3, after finding out that the changes were not to his liking at all. Beyond that, though, who knows. I doubt the altered present will be especially similar to the comic version of Flashpoint, though.
 
I'm pretty sure their were 3.

  • Original Time Line Flash that whizzed Young Barry away from the Reverse Flash
  • Season 1 Barry in the closet
  • Season 2 Barry stopping the Reverse Flash from killing his mum.
Season 1 finale? Nope.
I mean, Barry did not disappear, or see his mom saved and not stabbed.
 
I am 95% sure that "waves off s1 Barry" Flash is going to be the Flash from early s3, after finding out that the changes were not to his liking at all. Beyond that, though, who knows. I doubt the altered present will be especially similar to the comic version of Flashpoint, though.

Where was that a Barry in the season 2 finale? We didn't see him.
 

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