Justice League The Justice League General & Speculation Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 48

[Herolee10]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, the only way that I will ever end up having even one percent of faith within the DCEU franchise is if Warner Bros do the following actions:

1. Not meddle with any more DC films when it comes to the editing room.

2. An official announcement regarding the release date of a proper Superman sequel with a competent Director and Screenwriters attached to the project.

3. Discard any useless elseworld's/standalone films that have no connections to the DCEU (Joker Solo Film, etc.)

4. This is option but it'd go a LONG way if they released Snyder's director's cut of JL.

I honestly don't care how GOOD Aquaman's, Wonder Woman's, or even Shazam's films all look right now. After what they did to the likes of Suicide Squad, Batman V Superman, and Justice League...I am not going through this whole "well maybe they got their act together this time" process again until I see some legitimate and sincere actions taken from their end.

And given on how they seem to have abandoned Superman's franchise as they would rather focus in making a useless Joker film, it really shows how STUPID and INCOMPETENT they are.

 

[Consona]

I want Snyder's pentalogy. With dead Batman and Wonder Woman. Then reset and do what you want. #UntilItWasnt

 

[Jumpman]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, the only way that I will ever end up having even one percent of faith within the DCEU franchise is if Warner Bros do the following actions:

1. Not meddle with any more DC films when it comes to the editing room.

2. An official announcement regarding the release date of a proper Superman sequel with a competent Director and Screenwriters attached to the project.

3. Discard any useless elseworld's/standalone films that have no connections to the DCEU (Joker Solo Film, etc.)

4. This is option but it'd go a LONG way if they released Snyder's director's cut of JL.

I honestly don't care how GOOD Aquaman's, Wonder Woman's, or even Shazam's films all look right now. After what they did to the likes of Suicide Squad, Batman V Superman, and Justice League...I am not going through this whole "well maybe they got their act together this time" process again until I see some legitimate and sincere actions taken from their end.

And given on how they seem to have abandoned Superman's franchise as they would rather focus in making a useless Joker film, it really shows how STUPID and INCOMPETENT they are.

You’re gonna get a Superman film but it ain’t gonna be a sequel. It’s gonna be a soft reboot and that started with the theatrical cut of JL.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I'm ok with a soft reboot... Keep Henry, Amy and Lane. Batman Forever the rest.

 

[Greenlite]

You forgot Rebecca Buller and Fishbourne =P

Tom Cruise can play Metallo, if McQuerrie takes the reign.

 

[MbJ]

Pretty sure Laurence has jumped ship for greener pastures. /s

But I agree with whoever said it'll likely be a soft reboot. It's why I'm willing to bet money the movie isn't actually gonna be called Man of Steel 2. As long as it's not Superman: Flyby...

 

[Tra-El]

Man of Steel 2 is just a placeholder name for fans to reference the movie in discussion. BvS was MoS2. It'll either be called "Superman" or "Superman: Enter Subtitle Here".

Henry says he wants a direct sequel to MoS but in order for that to take place, it would have to be a prequel to BvS in the 18 month gap between MoS and BvS. That's if they keep the current continuity.

 

[_Superman_]

Pretty sure Laurence has jumped ship for greener pastures. /s

But I agree with whoever said it'll likely be a soft reboot. It's why I'm willing to bet money the movie isn't actually gonna be called Man of Steel 2. As long as it's not Superman: Flyby...

Laurence will be back as long as the paycheck is good. C.R.E.A.M. is the number one rule in Hollyweird.

 

[Jumpman]

Man of Steel 2 is just a placeholder name for fans to reference the movie in discussion. BvS was MoS2. It'll either be called "Superman" or "Superman: Enter Subtitle Here".

Henry says he wants a direct sequel to MoS but in order for that to take place, it would have to be a prequel to BvS in the 18 month gap between MoS and BvS. That's if they keep the current continuity.

The WW84 set footage of the riot, add in the first WW film, plus JL, with a dab of AQUAMAN kind of tells you that the current continuity is toast. The Snyder verse technically died with WONDER WOMAN.

 

[idiot09]

With no one overseeing the entire thing, and different filmmakers doing their own thing, this was bound to happen eventually.

Ehh, dont really care. Make the movies as good as you can. They can change story details all they want, they cant actually delete the movies so...

 

[Jumpman]

With no one overseeing the entire thing, and different filmmakers doing their own thing, this was bound to happen eventually.

Ehh, dont really care. Make the movies as good as you can. They can change story details all they want, they cant actually delete the movies so...

I mean, yeah. I sort of shrugged off WONDER WOMAN being different but looking back, the final words by Diana in that film are in direct contradiction to BvS. JUSTICE LEAGUE tied itself in knots trying to have it both ways; stay in continuity with both films. And now we see these set videos and Diana is in broad daylight during a protest/riot sequence. That settled that debate.

Hell, there’s tons of instances in JUSTICE LEAGUE that are out of continuity. And now we know that when AQUAMAN starts, he’s in Maine. That makes no sense to me, considering the final image of Arthur in JL.

 

[idiot09]

I mean, yeah. I sort of shrugged off WONDER WOMAN being different but looking back, the final words by Diana in that film are in direct contradiction to BvS. JUSTICE LEAGUE tied itself in knots trying to have it both ways; stay in continuity with both films. And now we see these set videos and Diana is in broad daylight during a protest/riot sequence. That settled that debate.

Hell, there’s tons of instances in JUSTICE LEAGUE that are out of continuity. And now we know that when AQUAMAN starts, he’s in Maine. That makes no sense to me, considering the final image of Arthur in JL.

Yeah right now with no one really overseeing the whole DC universe, I have no expectations of any continuity. Infact they will probably muck it up even further, so better to just let the filmmakers do their thing. Back when Zack and co were running things, there was a vision towards where the universe is headed. There's none atm, so stands to reason its all very disjointed. Not too bothered tbh. Look at X-Men, they said **** continuity and imo they make better movies than MCU. So lets see.

 

[Tra-El]

Continuity was bound to bend and/or break anyway for all the reasons mentioned above. WB put all their cards into the Zack Snyder saga with little-no help in other divisions so when you nix the overall vision from one man only 2 movies in, continuity is bound to be retconned.

Seeing what has taken place, I'm kind of ready to see a new direction where the main objective is to make good films starring our favorite hero's and villains. No more set-up films. Go for broke and make it great in the process.

I can dig that.

 

[Jumpman]

Yeah right now with no one really overseeing the whole DC universe, I have no expectations of any continuity. Infact they will probably muck it up even further, so better to just let the filmmakers do their thing. Back when Zack and co were running things, there was a vision towards where the universe is headed. There's none atm, so stands to reason its all very disjointed. Not too bothered tbh. Look at X-Men, they said **** continuity and imo they make better movies than MCU. So lets see.

Actually, there is a vision. The vision is to let the filmmakers do whatever they want and to actively ignore MAN OF STEEL and BATMAN v SUPERMAN.

I just have this film, with the Shazam universe and how Superman was handled in JUSTICE LEAGUE, the goal is for the MOS2 film to be a reboot of the series even though it's using the same actors. I think the story details about how Clark came to be in this universe are going to be different than what we saw in MAN OF STEEL. The goal is to let the filmmakers play in their own sandbox, without acknowledging what came before it. They will not actively go out of their way to contradict the Snyder films but if their film needs to go left for the story to make sense even if contradicts something Snyder set up or alluded too, they're gonna go left for the good of the film and the filmmaker. This is the MO of the DC films until we are far away from the Snyder-verse to where THEN another team up film can happen.

This only works if the DC films are critical and box office hits and they have to have about 5 or 6 of these hits in a row before they even contemplate doing another team up film.

 

[Jumpman]

Continuity was bound to bend and/or break anyway for all the reasons mentioned above. WB put all their cards into the Zack Snyder saga with little-no help in other divisions so when you nix the overall vision from one man only 2 movies in, continuity is bound to be retconned.

Seeing what has taken place, I'm kind of ready to see a new direction where the main objective is to make good films starting our favorite hero's and villains. No more set-up films. Go for broke and make it great in the process.

I can dig that.

The first film in this new continuity was WONDER WOMAN. But, yeah, that's what their doing. When I saw the set videos of WW84, that was the final nail in the coffin. Sure, I'm guessing their sell the idea that the film is still in continuity with the others during the press tour but the proof will be within the film that it's not....

 

[MbJ]

I mean, yeah. I sort of shrugged off WONDER WOMAN being different but looking back, the final words by Diana in that film are in direct contradiction to BvS. JUSTICE LEAGUE tied itself in knots trying to have it both ways; stay in continuity with both films. And now we see these set videos and Diana is in broad daylight during a protest/riot sequence. That settled that debate.

Hell, there’s tons of instances in JUSTICE LEAGUE that are out of continuity. And now we know that when AQUAMAN starts, he’s in Maine. That makes no sense to me, considering the final image of Arthur in JL.

I'm pretty sure what we're seeing is essentially what happened with the X-Men movies, in that some of the later installments went out of their way to ignore (or at least didn't care) what happened in the poorly-received installments like X-Men 3 or Wolverine: Origins. Even before Days of Future Past officially retconned everything, you had stuff like First Class flagrantly contradicting stuff established in those two movies, and nobody really cared.

I'm guessing the same thing is gonna happen here. I don't think Patty Jenkins or James Wan are actively going out of their way to retcon the past movies, but given the reception to them, it's likely nobody really gives a damn if the new films contradict what happened. As long as they're good, nobody is gonna mind.

 

[Jumpman]

I'm pretty sure what we're seeing is essentially what happened with the X-Men movies, in that some of the later installments went out of their way to ignore (or at least didn't care) what happened in the poorly-received installments like X-Men 3 or Wolverine: Origins. Even before Days of Future Past officially retconned everything, you had stuff like First Class flagrantly contradicting stuff established in those two movies, and nobody really cared.

I'm guessing the same thing is gonna happen here. I don't think Patty Jenkins or James Wan are actively going out of their way to retcon the past movies, but given the reception to them, it's likely nobody really gives a damn if the new films contradict what happened. As long as they're good, nobody is gonna mind.

Yep.

 

[Tra-El]

The first film in this new continuity was WONDER WOMAN. But, yeah, that's what their doing. When I saw the set videos of WW84, that was the final nail in the coffin. Sure, I'm guessing their sell the idea that the film is still in continuity with the others during the press tour but the proof will be within the film that it's not....

Wonder Woman was still in the same continuity as Snyder's films. Patty just retconned some intimate character details. Now though, yeah, the Snyderverse is no more. Even Patty was like "Get this man the f@#$ck away from Diana and our films..." when she saw Whedon pull that crap with Flash landing on Wondy's chest. Dispicable.

 

[idiot09]

Continuity was bound to bend and/or break anyway for all the reasons mentioned above. WB put all their cards into the Zack Snyder saga with little-no help in other divisions so when you nix the overall vision from one man only 2 movies in, continuity is bound to be retconned.

Yeah.

Actually, there is a vision. The vision is to let the filmmakers do whatever they want and to actively ignore MAN OF STEEL and BATMAN v SUPERMAN.

I mean vision in the sense creatively/storywise. Not in terms of ethos. FWIW, Zack was very in favour of different directors bring their own styles, tastes and tones. He actively didnt want to give Flash a second costume in JL so that the Flash director could do his own thing. So I get that. I dont think right now they have any particular storywise vision for the universe. They are just focusing on individual movies(which is by no means a bad thing). And I dont think they are actively setting out to ignore anything, rather just doing what it takes to tell the story the best they could. I mean JL tried to copy the MCU and be as different to MOS and BvS and failed spectacularly. So I dont think WB's going down that slope again. They are just being risk averse, and taking it one step at a time.

And I cant blame them. Gotta be steady now.

But at the end of the day, we are all speculating here, we dont know whats happening behind doors. PR and reality can be very different, as we have all seen.

 

[Tra-El]

But at the end of the day, we are all speculating here, we dont know whats happening behind doors. PR and reality can be very different, as we have all seen.

'Aint that the truth..

 

[Jumpman]

Wonder Woman was still in the same continuity as Snyder's films. Patty just retconned some intimate character details. Now though, yeah, the Snyderverse is no more. Even Patty was like "Get this man the f@#$ck away from Diana and our films..." when she saw Whedon pull that crap with Flash landing on Wondy's chest. Dispicable.

Well, that's on Joss. No way Snyder would've done that with this cut.

 

[atila9323]

Well, that's on Joss. No way Snyder would've done that with this cut.

Exactly. That was totally Joss. Same joke from Avengers. Patty Jenkins loves Zack. He created everything she's working with now. Btw, he's still WW84 producer along with his wife and Gal Gadot as well.

 

[kguillou]

Eh, i say screw continuity if it allows the filmmakers to make the best movie possible without shackles. Xmen DOFP is arguably the best Xmen film theyve made thus far and its one that disregarded continuity and did its own thing.

 

[MbJ]

Eh, i say screw continuity if it allows the filmmakers to make the best movie possible without shackles. Xmen DOFP is arguably the best Xmen film theyve made thus far and its one that disregarded continuity and did its own thing.

Indeed. An unfortunate side effect of the success of the MCU has been Hollywood's sudden obsession with a shared continuity, often to the detriment of the individual movies (see the cluster**** that was the Mummy reboot). Batman Begins did not have to worry about how it might possibly relate to the events of Justice League 2: The Search for Curly's Gold, and was much stronger for it. Just take it one step at a time with each movie.

 

[misslane38]

The WW84 set footage of the riot, add in the first WW film, plus JL, with a dab of AQUAMAN kind of tells you that the current continuity is toast. The Snyder verse technically died with WONDER WOMAN.

As far as I know, JL and Aquaman don't have things in them that contradict continuity. The tone for JL may be different, but I don't think continuity was affected. As for the first WW film, continuity wasn't changed for that either. A vague thing said was followed by another vague thing. The WW84 footage would contradict the first WW movie as much as it would contradict other DCEU movies in terms of Diana being a public superhero, but Diana helping people has always been a part of continuity; she helped fight Doomday, as I'm sure you recall. Since we don't know the context of what's happening in WW84, there could be reasons why whatever happens in public isn't perceived or remembered. Magic is involved after all.

I mean, yeah. I sort of shrugged off WONDER WOMAN being different but looking back, the final words by Diana in that film are in direct contradiction to BvS. JUSTICE LEAGUE tied itself in knots trying to have it both ways; stay in continuity with both films. And now we see these set videos and Diana is in broad daylight during a protest/riot sequence. That settled that debate.

WW wasn't different. In BvS, Diana is speaking to Bruce in response to a question about whether or not she would come together with other heroes. She explains that she walked away from mankind because she didn't think could stand together with them. At the end of WW, Diana still believes this. She believes that no hero can defeat mankind's darkness, so she will believe in love and protect them, but she won't lead them or team up with them like she did with Steve and his comrades.

JL carried this forward by having Diana speak about her worries about being a leader. Diana had walked away and not stood with mankind as its leader or as a partner and chose to work alone. For WW84, Diana may be doing things in public, but it's not clear how those events will be remembered or reported on by those who witness them. Until we see the movie, I don't things are completely settled.

Hell, there’s tons of instances in JUSTICE LEAGUE that are out of continuity.

Like what? The mother box thing? Most of that is minor stuff that I can see filmmakers doing out of ignorance or handwaving as not significant enough to factor into their decisions. Messing with Wonder Woman would mess with the whole foundation.

And now we know that when AQUAMAN starts, he’s in Maine. That makes no sense to me, considering the final image of Arthur in JL.

Wasn't the final image of him swimming away? That's too generic to specifically relate to anything. Why couldn't he be settled in Maine now? Either it's a place he's been to before that he is revisiting or he decided to move. He seemed kind of itinerant, so I don't know why his location changing means anything other than he moved. Pre-Aquaman Arthur on Smallville was quite similar actually. He moved around the world trying to help out. As he said in his debut episode, "I'm gonna float around for a little while...see where the current takes me." In a later episode, his new wife Mera explains his transformation: "Orin is finally embracing his destiny and leading his people." I can see the same thing happening in Wan's movie without contradicting anything.

I'm pretty sure what we're seeing is essentially what happened with the X-Men movies, in that some of the later installments went out of their way to ignore (or at least didn't care) what happened in the poorly-received installments like X-Men 3 or Wolverine: Origins. Even before Days of Future Past officially retconned everything, you had stuff like First Class flagrantly contradicting stuff established in those two movies, and nobody really cared.

What would have to be ignored, though? Tone seems to be a big issue, and there's no retconning that, and if it's just superficial changes of that sort that's not so much a soft reboot or retcon as an evolution based on the journeys the characters have already been on. That said, some character beats, like the tornado, killing Zod, brutal Batman, and the death of Superman I know people didn't like, but why would those things have come up naturally in subsequent films anyway? Perhaps if one wanted to include in one's film an alive Jonathan Kent or Zod, but why would you?

As long as they're good, nobody is gonna mind.

It may not hurt the movie's performance or even how someone feels about something overall, but I can't imagine no one minding or no online activity over it.