The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 5

[Mr.M]

I don't know enough about Runaways, but I don't think it's wise to target strictly the young adult demo. Casting is a major impediment with that. You have to strike early and hope those actors can stave off the baggage as they get older. Best thing that happened to Potter was the casting and getting a rock like Emma Watson, with equally solid and disciplined, English male leads that could handle the success. Maybe I'm digressing a bit, because obviously I'm getting older and would be bias against such a franchise that alienates older viewers.

Honestly, I'm still surprised of how quickly X-Men and Spidey have fallen out of the mainstream stateside. I knew Spidey would be a gradual decline but not as quickly as it has fallen off after ASM2. X-Men was decent but DOFP did not reach mainstream success. This tells me that the result will be no different with Marvel in terms of their brand characters (Avengers), so these characters alone cannot sustain them. But I am also struggling to think of franchises that hit it big that don't involve big brand names.

You still have your Terminators, Jurassic Parks, and Star Wars. These are the non-comic brands that Hollywood studios are still pushing. At least the latter two of those should still do major numbers. You'll have your dark horses in there, but what of these franchises actually become mainstream?

Maybe it is best to target the young adult fare. It's just such a fickle crowd and I don't know how you consistently tap into that. I'd look at serialized dramas like Dare Devil intended mostly for older viewers. But I'm just not sure in terms of major tentpole movies post Avengers.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think Runaways can have a wide appeal. Most of the team are in the same age range as the leads in the later Harry Potter books or Katniss Everdeen from The Hunger Games. Molly is the real exception (and Klara but she's a much later addition who might not ever make it in a film adaptation).

 

[Kurne]

That 2018 Fox film is probably an (open) option to release FF/X-Men. I hope they aren't like Warner Bros assuming this reboot will make a ton, only to be disappointed and merge the FF with the [frick]ed continuity of the X-Men to make up for it.

 

[Kurne]

I assume Fox was going to let the FF revert in 2012, but Avengers was a bigger hit than they expected.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I don't know enough about Runaways, but I don't think it's wise to target strictly the young adult demo. Casting is a major impediment with that. You have to strike early and hope those actors can stave off the baggage as they get older. Best thing that happened to Potter was the casting and getting a rock like Emma Watson, with equally solid and disciplined, English male leads that could handle the success. Maybe I'm digressing a bit, because obviously I'm getting older and would be bias against such a franchise that alienates older viewers.

Honestly, I'm still surprised of how quickly X-Men and Spidey have fallen out of the mainstream stateside. I knew Spidey would be a gradual decline but not as quickly as it has fallen off after ASM2. X-Men was decent but DOFP did not reach mainstream success. This tells me that the result will be no different with Marvel in terms of their brand characters (Avengers), so these characters alone cannot sustain them. But I am also struggling to think of franchises that hit it big that don't involve big brand names.

You still have your Terminators, Jurassic Parks, and Star Wars. These are the non-comic brands that Hollywood studios are still pushing. At least the latter two of those should still do major numbers. You'll have your dark horses in there, but what of these franchises actually become mainstream?

Maybe it is best to target the young adult fare. It's just such a fickle crowd and I don't know how you consistently tap into that. I'd look at serialized dramas like Dare Devil intended mostly for older viewers. But I'm just not sure in terms of major tentpole movies post Avengers.

Thank god you don't work for Marvel. Out.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Honestly, I'm still surprised of how quickly X-Men and Spidey have fallen out of the mainstream stateside.

I'm not. People don't want to watch badly mis-handled, poorly thought-out movies aka the exact type of "shared universe" tripe Sony and Fox are currently trying to cash in on.

Good ideas and good movies make money in the long run. Cheap copycat attempts don't, because they skip the groundwork & set-up that make the enterprise interesting in the first place.

 

[fixxxer]

Disney shelling out a fortune for the FF doesn't make fiscal sense, especially when they can just wait it out: Unless FFINO is a success Fox aint gonna get much more (if any) mileage out of this franchise. They don't have the good will & fan base the X-Men carry to help them past any dud FF films here. This one will either do well enough to secure the FF with Fox for as many sequels as they can get away with (as X-Men are) or it will be an effectively done & dusted dead franchise for them.

I do not think even Fox would be silly enough to try another reboot in 7/8 years time. Hold onto the rights until the next deadline just to spite Marvel? Possibly, but if this one tanks then I just can't see them trying another film again.

I'm not as optimistic. Utter crap, low budget franchises like Resident Evil are happily chugging along, and this is what I believe Fox is planning for the FF...

The budget for FF will be modest and that's putting it charitably. The Marvel brand (MCU or not) will be enough to, at the very least, turn a modest profit on a shoestring budget as long as the scripts are (and continue to be) of manageable quality, whether or not the movies have anything to do with the FF that we know and love.

They just need to pump out a few low budget FF movies every now and then, turn a modest profit and completely destroy the FF brand that we know and love. We, i.e. the folks that know what a FF movie can... scratch that... ought to be, will be stuck in this nightmare in perpetuity.

 

[the gael]

I'm not. People don't want to watch badly mis-handled, poorly thought-out movies aka the exact type of "shared universe" tripe Sony and Fox are currently trying to cash in on.

Good ideas and good movies make money in the long run. Cheap copycat attempts don't, because they skip the groundwork & set-up that make the enterprise interesting in the first place.

TASM franchise was a makeshift job that tried to copy the Batman Begins formula to make $$$$ without understanding what Nolan did. Batman Begins worked because there never was a Batman origin on film before.

Webb and Sony made every possible mistakes. They corrected some things (the webshooters, etc), but were basically captive of another origin just 10 years after the Raimi one. So for one or two things "corrected", they f###ed up one or two other things that Raimi had right.

Webb tried to correct these mistakes in the second movie (the costume, a Peter Parker that isn't just a thug, etc), but the movie was hurt by a very lame and uninteresting main villain (Electro was just ridiculous)

When you don't have a dangerous and threatening villain, no Superhero movie can work.

So no, I am not surprised either. The franchise was very poorly handled

On the other hand, X Men is slowly getting stronger after the X Men 3 and XMO : W debacle. Apocalypse will be the first movie of a "new franchise", freed from the bad movies mentionned. How Fox will handle that ? I don't know. But X Men is an universe in itself, so It can live for a while IF done right (with Singer).

As for the FF, the best would be a big disaster in BO. Trank movie is so different from what we know and love that it may not damage the franchise as much as we may fear. Plus the movie will be quickly forgotten and buried (Like the atrocious CINO didn't prevent us from seing a good Catwoman in TDKR)

And a disaster will force Fox to abandon the franchise.

What worked against us was BvS delays

 

[justanotherguy]

TASM franchise was a makeshift job that tried to copy the Batman Begins formula to make $$$$ without understanding what Nolan did. Batman Begins worked because there never was a Batman origin on film before.

Webb and Sony made every possible mistakes. They corrected some things (the webshooters, etc), but were basically captive of another origin just 10 years after the Raimi one. So for one or two things "corrected", they f###ed up one or two other things that Raimi had right.

Webb tried to correct these mistakes in the second movie (the costume, a Peter Parker that isn't just a thug, etc), but the movie was hurt by a very lame and uninteresting main villain (Electro was just ridiculous)

When you don't have a dangerous and threatening villain, no Superhero movie can work.

So no, I am not surprised either. The franchise was very poorly handled

On the other hand, X Men is slowly getting stronger after the X Men 3 and XMO : W debacle. Apocalypse will be the first movie of a "new franchise", freed from the bad movies mentionned. How Fox will handle that ? I don't know. But X Men is an universe in itself, so It can live for a while IF done right (with Singer).

As for the FF, the best would be a big disaster in BO. Trank movie is so different from what we know and love that it may not damage the franchise as much as we may fear. Plus the movie will be quickly forgotten and buried (Like the atrocious CINO didn't prevent us from seing a good Catwoman in TDKR)

And a disaster will force Fox to abandon the franchise.

What worked against us was BvS delays

I wouldn't say Garfield's Parker is a thug in TASM. As a matter of fact, he is by far the best portrayal of the character on film. Webb's franchise isn't great, but it has heart at least (TASM 2 was a mess though). The X-Men franchise is still terrible, the only movie I've liked recently is The Wolverine. DFOP is weak film and follow up to First Class. Fox has never handled the franchise correctly. It's basically been the same movie over and over again.

So if F4 is getting the second tier treatment from Fox- a studio that has made X-Men into a one note franchise, I fear for this film.

 

[the gael]

I've yet to see a Spiderman portrayal on screen that please me. Maguire was a good Peter Parker, but too over the top sometimes (SM3...). He wasn't a great Spiderman, on he other hand. Garfield is the exact opposite. A way better Spiderman, but over the top at time (The fireman Spiderman was just ridiculous). On the other hand, he wsn't a great Peter Parker.

But, well, that's another question.

You are right to fear for FFINO. When every detail on the production scream "****", you rarely see a masterpiece in theater.

That' why will preserve myself by doing jus the exact opposite of what MBJ expect us to do... t:

 

[starscream22]

I wouldn't say Garfield's Parker is a thug in TASM. As a matter of fact, he is by far the best portrayal of the character on film. Webb's franchise isn't great, but it has heart at least (TASM 2 was a mess though). The X-Men franchise is still terrible, the only movie I've liked recently is The Wolverine. DFOP is weak film and follow up to First Class. Fox has never handled the franchise correctly. It's basically been the same movie over and over again.

So if F4 is getting the second tier treatment from Fox- a studio that has made X-Men into a one note franchise, I fear for this film.

Good point there...
Its always been the same formula where Magneto finds an opertunity to grandstand, so Wolverine and friends end up having to rescue the stupid, ignorant humans despite themselves.

All 5 Spider-Man films have been just as predictable as Fox-men has.
Fights random crook/thug.
Issue with love interest.
Fight scene.
Issues with powers.
Fight scene.
Burning/collapsing building rescue scene.
Love interest Break up scene.
Aunt May speech.
Love interest is captured.
Final fight scene.

Can't imagine why anyone is tired of that after the 5th time watching it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In fairness, have there been any great 3-4 film series that haven't had serious flaws and/or fallen into patterns? Even Nolan's Batman films (arguably the strongest series) fell into the pattern of having villains with vague motivations of creating chaos and anarchy combined with Batman's somewhat one-dimensional character.

And I do think the constant X-Men/Magneto/Human dynamic is getting pretty old. I had hoped the Sentinels would have offered a new and interesting threat, but the film-makers seemed unable to control themselves from falling into old habits. Maybe the ending to the last film will open up some interesting possibilities (and we know they're going to feature Apocalypse) but I have a feeling they're going to fall into tired patterns.

It might support an argument for more variability in writers and directors. I like the idea of broad stories that cover several films, but the best, most interesting way to do that while staying fresh may be to have a broad plan, but allow different writers and directors to handle the films within that plan. The original 3 Star Wars films had 3 different directors, and there were a few different directors in the Harry Potter films.

. . . at least we now know we will only get one Trank FF film even if they make a sequel.

 

[Figs]

http://www.superherohype.com/news/3...talks-x-men-apocalypse-and-the-fantastic-four

20th Century Fox's President of Production Emma Watts is having a good year and some of that has to do with X-Men: Days of Future Past, which has brought in nearly $700 million at the global box office. Watts and the studio are already hard at work bringing the next round of Marvel properties to the big screen, and in a recent profile piece on The Hollywood Reporter, Watts talked about the importance of directors for their big budget hero romps.

"We're making a big bet for 2015 with The Fantastic Four and director Josh Trank," Watts said. "To me, the key is the originality of the filmmakers and the choices they make. Josh is another really interesting example, who is using the vision he gave us in Chronicle to reinvent a franchise he's loved his whole life. It's not that you can't make original ideas — you can, and we did it with Chronicle. The director is the key to not letting superhero movies go stale. That's the truth."

When asked if we'd be seeing some "found footage elements" to The Fantastic Four, like what Trank did with the surprise hit Chronicle, Watts replied:

"It's Josh, so it can't not have that feel. That's his talent, that's what he does, and that's what excites him about it. It is a really interesting young cast, and he is the magnet that's brought them all together."

The subject of X-Men: Apocalypse was also brought up, with the outlet asking if director Bryan Singer would return behind the camera for the film.
"Right now we are totally at the outlining phase," Watts added. "But nothing would make me happier than if it all worked out. It's always been the intention for him to do it."

Miles Teller, Kate Mara, Michael B. Jordan, and Jamie Bell will star as The Fantastic Four, set for release on June 19, 2015, with X-Men: Apocalypse scheduled for release on May 22, 2016.

LOL

who is using the vision he gave us in Chronicle to reinvent a franchise he's loved his whole life.

Says just about every director/actor who makes or stars in a superhero film.

 

[Doc Ock]

Oh lord WHY IS THIS FILM HAPPENING! X-Men is great again, stick with that. I don't want Fantastic Four film with any of that "found footage" junk!

 

[Donut]

Has Kinberg been put down as the spokes person of this movie ?

 

[Krystal]

YEEEEEESSSSSSS! YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS! YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!

FF reboot will be "FOUND FOOTAGE"


YEEEESSSSSSSSSS!

What every fan wanted has now come to pass! My fears are put to sleep. A found footage FF movie--just want the franchise always deserved.

Eat that naysayers!!!

http://www.**************.com/fansites/Edwardo2K14/news/?a=102621

 

[Krystal]

Oh and in the article the Exec states in reference to the found footage description.....

It's Josh Trank...it's his style how could it NOT be?


So his upcoming star wars movie will be found footage also!

Right? Because "it's his style...how could it not be?"

Except of course any Star Wars movie is not going to be a low budget piece of trash and nobody involved would ever allow such a moronic thing to happen to that franchise......

so NO, his Star Wars movie will NOT be a "found footage" piece of S***.

But FF, yes absolutely and let's boast about it!

 

[SpideyFan866]

>Rushed production to meet rights cutoff date
>Filmed in a completely un-New York like location
>Budget of nothing
>Based on the most loathed iteration of the FF, Ultimate FF
>Blind stunt casting, to meet the whims of the director
>Repeating every mistake of the last 2 films, plus 1000 more
>Everyone involved appears to give absolutely no ****s about the project, so much as who else is working on it.


This movie is gonna be a hit.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

IF THEY WANT CHRONICLE II, WHY DON'T THEY JUST ****ING MAKE CHRONICLE II.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

IF THEY WANT CHRONICLE II, WHY DON'T THEY JUST ****ING MAKE CHRONICLE II.

Because they can't keep the rights if it is called Chronicle II. The only reason this project has ever existed is because they lose the rights if they don't do it. So like I said many months ago, this movie is Roger Corman's Fantastic Four (or Dragonball Evolution) all over again. Just a cheap piece of crap that will allow them to keep the rights. Fox doesn't care if it is good or even really make a profit. They just want to keep the rights and spend as little money as possible doing it.

 

[Spiderine]

This only confirms what we all thought this POS of a movie was going to be anyways. So nothing new here. All I wanted to know if they were actually going to make this turd. And it looks like they are so I wish you all the best of luck. Maybe we get this thing back where it belongs in 7 years for phase 4 or 5. I will see it on RedBox. And I will not spend the extra doe for the Blu Ray either.

 

[Krystal]

This only confirms what we all thought this POS of a movie was going to be anyways. So nothing new here. All I wanted to know if they were actually going to make this turd. And it looks like they are so I wish you all the best of luck. Maybe we get this thing back where it belongs in 7 years for phase 4 or 5. I will see it on RedBox. And I will not spend the extra doe for the Blu Ray either.

I as well and it will be DVD with a Redbox free code---just to cry in my beer and laugh in their face.

Emma Watts from Fox---"It's Josh Trank---- it has to be-----it's what HE DOES!"

"He feels no pity, no feels no remorse, and he absolutely will not stop making found footage films with MBJ until you are dead."

"Is there any way to stop him?"

"With these words---I don't know, I don't know."

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Emma Watson from Fox---"It's Josh Trank---- it has to be-----it's what HE DOES!"

This just seems to show a complete lack of confidence in Trank. Early in the process, people were concerned that this would be a found-footage film, but I didn't buy it.

"He may have used that shtick in Chronicle, but he's a talented young director. He can certainly do other types of films. He's not a one-trick pony," I said in one form or another.

It seems Fox thinks he's a one-trick pony.

 

[Krystal]

This just seems to show a complete lack of confidence in Trank. Early in the process, people were concerned that this would be a found-footage film, but I didn't buy it.

"He may have used that shtick in Chronicle, but he's a talented young director. He can certainly do other types of films. He's not a one-trick pony," I said in one form or another.

It seems Fox thinks he's a one-trick pony.

Exactly. She took the question as the interviewer being positive about the idea whereas if he had any knowledge of the fans he was clearly asking that question as a trap. Tricking her into admitting in a positive way exactly what the fans DID NOT what to hear!

Of course it's Josh Trank!" WTF? Is he some kind of iconic director known for a certain genre?

He's a freakin' rookie.

 

[Rorschach2012]

wow the news from today is reaaaally disappointing. this would be in such better hands at Marvel... god.... it'd be so awesome to see the F4, Doom, Silver Surfer and Galactus in the MCU :/