The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 9

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On the site that shall not be named, there is an article where Kinberg talks Fantastic Four. He says that reshoots are only 3 to 4 days, and that a Fantastic Four trailer will be attached to Kingsman. This seems to contradict the reports of 2 to 3 weeks of reshoots, but personally I don't trust any representative of Fox to give us the real story. So, I am still praying for a miracle.

Surfer
 
Can't wait for the trailer to drop to see if I actually have any interest in this. If it looks like a good movie I'll give it a shot, if it looks like a stinker I'll pass probably unless it's getting good reviews. Either way everything already points to it not being a very good "fantastic four" movie, but as a non comic reader I'm mostly into these CBMs because they're generally good movies overall as of late.
 
On the site that shall not be named, there is an article where Kinberg talks Fantastic Four. He says that reshoots are only 3 to 4 days, and that a Fantastic Four trailer will be attached to Kingsman. This seems to contradict the reports of 2 to 3 weeks of reshoots, but personally I don't trust any representative of Fox to give us the real story. So, I am still praying for a miracle.

Surfer

Maybe Kinberg and everyone else involved are trapped in a temporal anomaly where it's been 3-4 weeks of reshoots but they only experience them as 3-4 days. :oldrazz:
 
On the site that shall not be named, there is an article where Kinberg talks Fantastic Four. He says that reshoots are only 3 to 4 days, and that a Fantastic Four trailer will be attached to Kingsman. This seems to contradict the reports of 2 to 3 weeks of reshoots, but personally I don't trust any representative of Fox to give us the real story. So, I am still praying for a miracle.

Surfer

Rumors are always subject to 'whisper down the lane' where details get shifted along the way.

I suspect that many of the rumors include details that aren't true, but I think there is probably something to the basis of these rumors.

If you step back and take a 30,000 foot view, I think you can consider everything we've seen over the past year and make the following reasonable interpretation:

Trank and Fox are at odds and at least some within Fox management are very concerned with Trank and this film.

Was Trank fired or just pushed into a position of limited control? Was damage to the house a huge issue or just an excuse for Fox to marginalize Trank? Are reshoots going to take a month or a week?

The details of these rumors are probably different than being reported, but I think it's safe to say production of this film isn't going smoothly.

Of course one could argue that production of films like Jaws and Star Wars didn't go smoothly either and we saw the results there, but as someone who wants to see the best film possible, I'm not happy with anything I've heard over the past year.
 
Good news for those hoping for reversion: The increased effort to salvage this film could push the budget to a point that the film will need a reasonable gross to be successful.

Bad news for those hoping for a good film: A lot of money being wasted so a film that may result with a reasonable budget will look like a film with a much smaller budget.
 
Rumors are always subject to 'whisper down the lane' where details get shifted along the way.

I suspect that many of the rumors include details that aren't true, but I think there is probably something to the basis of these rumors.

If you step back and take a 30,000 foot view, I think you can consider everything we've seen over the past year and make the following reasonable interpretation:

Trank and Fox are at odds and at least some within Fox management are very concerned with Trank and this film.

Was Trank fired or just pushed into a position of limited control? Was damage to the house a huge issue or just an excuse for Fox to marginalize Trank? Are reshoots going to take a month or a week?

The details of these rumors are probably different than being reported, but I think it's safe to say production of this film isn't going smoothly.

Of course one could argue that production of films like Jaws and Star Wars didn't go smoothly either and we saw the results there, but as someone who wants to see the best film possible, I'm not happy with anything I've heard over the past year.

Didn't Kinberg say that reshoots are going on with Trank at the helm? If so, what's he still doing there if he has been fired? Why is he still allowed to direct instead of getting someone else in to fix what has essentially become Chronicle 2?

With Trank directing, he might do these reshoots in a different way now, but it could still come out as a different version of Chronicle 2 as opposed to his original version of Chronicle 2. Wouldn't the movie need a massive script overhaul to be something different? But then it might not even match the existing script unless they simply don't care if it looks cobbled together.
 

Good news for those hoping for reversion: The increased effort to salvage this film could push the budget to a point that the film will need a reasonable gross to be successful.

Bad news for those hoping for a good film: A lot of money being wasted so a film that may result with a reasonable budget will look like a film with a much smaller budget.
Agreed! That's the thing: I think Trank did what Fox asked him to do: make a good film on the smallest budget possible and give them his vision. He gave them Chronicle 2 but just changed the name to F4. I think when Fox saw this, they were not to pleased and for this to be a summer release, they need to do something. I've been on record as saying I think this will be a good film but because it's not a good F4 film, I will support it because the only thing you do is encourage Fox to continue making crap that is not faithful to the source but if the budget gets above $150M, which I had doubts this thing would get over $75M, then it's going to be hard for it to make it's budget back. Especially if Fox decides to try and promote this thing.
 
Will Fox now be forced to have to promote this film if they have spent that much on it, particularly with reshoots, in order to try to make their budget back? Or do they not spend anything and just hope for the best, since they won't have spent as much as if they did a lot of marketing?
 
Trank and Fox are at odds and at least some within Fox management are very concerned with Trank and this film.

yeah, i come to the same conclusion, that the real thing behind all this is a division inside Fox about this movie. and it's been there since the very beginning.

and probably Trank is not acting like most directors do, as in doing what he's supposed to. and there's probably just been massive lack of communication between all levels about the film and probably some pretty interesting power structure dynamics around this split if we knew all the details, and how this whole thing with Millar and Vaughn and the crossover shared universe overseer stuff, and them kinda being placed to be the 'adults in the room', this doesn't seem to have worked for whatever reason.

Vaughns recent comments are hardly positive about it at all, contrary to what i've seen people characterize it as. that was a hardcore distancing.

i'm actually surprised at how people read his statement as positive.

and i'm actually rooting for this movie, but i totally understand and always have understood all the issues with it. i don't see how anyone couldn't understand that. i'm just conflicted about it.

but at the heart of this, "Fox" just seems to have been of more than one mind the whole time on this film. i think there must seriously be people in there that don't see the value of them keeping this franchise. and it's probably gonna get more vocal as the release date approaches, first cuz people will see what it actually is, and also they will want it known that they were not for this in the first place. that this is someone else's fault.

cuz it's gonna have to be answered for.
 
there has to be people at Fox saying... Look!! dude! we can either spend money and have a huge pain in the ass with more of this stuff,

that has an incredibly low percentage chance for relatively minor return on investment, and at the most is a dead end.

or we could be putting money into expanding the X universe, where people are eager to see more and where high quality movies will have a synergy with each other and increase excitement and strengthen the performance of other movies dramatically.

why did we do this instead of an X-Force movie? or Deadpool, already? or an X-Factor detective agency movie? or a solo movie spinning off the main X-Men films?
instead we are doing this pain in the ass thing and it's making us look like monkeys.

there has to be someone saying this inside there.
 
if Fox is just gonna sit on rights over there, how did Daredevil ever get back?

was that just an accident? did they not know about that?
obviously not an accident.

FF does not have to flop for it to be something that takes resources away from something way more likely to be profitable. people act like, well if u add it all up, it'll surely make a profit.

but that's doesn't mean it's worth it. you can run around collecting cans out of the trash for recycling. that's gonna be a profit also. is it the best use of your time? who knows, u know?

i really feel like Trank's gotten a raw deal on this movie. and i don't like the way Matt Vaughn talks about things. "it was good". it actually gives me respect for Simon Kinberg now, compare the two statements, Vaughn's and the one Kinberg made recently. Kinberg is actually supporting the movie. bless his heart.
unlike the producer of it, Matt Vaughn. rabbit hider man.
 
With Daredevil they tried to get it out but the director left at the last minute so they vowed to not let that happen again.
 
Didn't Kinberg say that reshoots are going on with Trank at the helm? If so, what's he still doing there if he has been fired? Why is he still allowed to direct instead of getting someone else in to fix what has essentially become Chronicle 2?

With Trank directing, he might do these reshoots in a different way now, but it could still come out as a different version of Chronicle 2 as opposed to his original version of Chronicle 2. Wouldn't the movie need a massive script overhaul to be something different? But then it might not even match the existing script unless they simply don't care if it looks cobbled together.

I'll preface this by saying this is just a guess and some wild speculation based on what we're seeing, but this is roughly what I expect is going on:

Trank and Fox have not been seeing eye to eye from the start. That resulted in Fox wanting to replace Trank and when that story broke and Trank became emasculated by it, a bad relationship turned toxic.

Trank's idea for a an intense film in which these powers are an illness (which in Ben's case actually has been a key element of the FF) would make an interesting and unique film, but not a good FF film.

As internet outrage grew, Fox executives realized they were making a film that none of us wanted, and they've been pushing Trank to make this more of a light-hearted film more like Marvel efforts (as Matthew Vaughn recently said film-goers wanted).

But Trank pushed forward with his film, frustrated by studio interference and Simon Kinberg (as a studio rep) looking over his shoulder the whole way. That led to a very unpleasant production experience, and Trank became obstinate and non-cooperative - forcing the studio to have others fill in. That led to the reports that Trank was showing up late and/or high. And maybe Trank was doing some drinking etc. along the way, but if so, I suspect that had something to do with broader events. If he felt happy and empowered and able to make the film he wanted, he would have poured himself into his work.

There may have been some damage to the house, but I suspect that became a bigger issue because of the conflict than it would have been otherwise. Fox used that as an excuse to marginalize Trank. They told him they were taking over and they would have assistant directors finish the primary responsibilities of getting this thing put together.

They had enough on Trank (with the house etc.) that they could 'fire' him, but that would look bad for him and them and it would be better for everyone all around if he would stay on in a symbolic role.

At that point, they had a rough cut of a 'grounded gritty' film that was probably actually sort of interesting, but Fox realized it wasn't the kind of thing that would interest people like us and give them the blockbuster Marvel type box-office.

Now they've been working furiously to 'fix' the film with a big, visually-noisy CGI ending that they think dumb audiences want (somebody must believe that because we see those things all the time).

The result is that we're likely to get a film that's sort of interesting (though not what we want from the Fantastic Four) through the first two acts and then an incomprehensible battle at the end.

Again, that's some wild speculation, but I think it fits everything we've seen and know.
 
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I'll preface this by saying this is just a guess and some wild speculation based on what we're seeing, but this is roughly what I expect is going on:

Trank and Fox have not been seeing eye to eye from the start. That resulted in Fox wanting to replace Trank and when that story broke and Trank became emasculated by it, a bad relationship turned toxic.

Trank's idea for a an intense film in which these powers are an illness (which in Ben's case actually has been a key element of the FF) would make an interesting and unique film, but not a good FF film.

As internet outrage grew, Fox executives realized they were making a film that none of us wanted, and they've been pushing Trank to make this more of a light-hearted film more like Marvel efforts (as Matthew Vaughn recently said film-goers wanted).

But Trank pushed forward with his film, frustrated by studio interference and Simon Kinberg (as a studio rep) looking over his shoulder the whole way. That led to a very unpleasant production experience, and Trank became obstinate and non-cooperative - forcing the studio to have others fill in. That led to the reports that Trank was showing up late and/or high. And maybe Trank was doing some drinking etc. along the way, but if so, I suspect that had something to do with broader events. If he felt happy and empowered and able to make the film he wanted, he would have poured himself into his work.

There may have been some damage to the house, but I suspect that became a bigger issue because of the conflict than it would have been otherwise. Fox used that as an excuse to marginalize Trank. They told him they were taking over and they would have assistant directors finish the primary responsibilities of getting this thing put together.

They had enough on Trank (with the house etc.) that they could 'fire' him, but that would look bad for him and them and it would be better for everyone all around if he would stay on in a symbolic role.

At that point, they had a rough cut of a 'grounded gritty' film that was probably actually sort of interesting, but Fox realized it wasn't the kind of thing that would interest people like us and give them the blockbuster Marvel type box-office.

Now they've been working furiously to 'fix' the film with a big, visually-noisy CGI ending that they think dumb audiences want (somebody must believe that because we see those things all the time).

The result is that we're likely to get a film that's sort of interesting (though not what we want from the Fantastic Four) through the first two acts and then an incomprehensible battle at the end.

Again, that's some wild speculation, but I think it fits everything we've seen and know.

:up:

Willie, you should totally write the screenplay for the upcoming film Grounded: The Untold Story of Josh Trank's Fantastic Four.
 
I'll preface this by saying this is just a guess and some wild speculation based on what we're seeing, but this is roughly what I expect is going on:

Trank and Fox have not been seeing eye to eye from the start. That resulted in Fox wanting to replace Trank and when that story broke and Trank became emasculated by it, a bad relationship turned toxic.

Trank's idea for a an intense film in which these powers are an illness (which in Ben's case actually has been a key element of the FF) would make an interesting and unique film, but not a good FF film.

As internet outrage grew, Fox executives realized they were making a film that none of us wanted, and they've been pushing Trank to make this more of a light-hearted film more like Marvel efforts (as Matthew Vaughn recently said film-goers wanted).

But Trank pushed forward with his film, frustrated by studio interference and Simon Kinberg (as a studio rep) looking over his shoulder the whole way. That led to a very unpleasant production experience, and Trank became obstinate and non-cooperative - forcing the studio to have others fill in. That led to the reports that Trank was showing up late and/or high. And maybe Trank was doing some drinking etc. along the way, but if so, I suspect that had something to do with broader events. If he felt happy and empowered and able to make the film he wanted, he would have poured himself into his work.

There may have been some damage to the house, but I suspect that became a bigger issue because of the conflict than it would have been otherwise. Fox used that as an excuse to marginalize Trank. They told him they were taking over and they would have assistant directors finish the primary responsibilities of getting this thing put together.

They had enough on Trank (with the house etc.) that they could 'fire' him, but that would look bad for him and them and it would be better for everyone all around if he would stay on in a symbolic role.

At that point, they had a rough cut of a 'grounded gritty' film that was probably actually sort of interesting, but Fox realized it wasn't the kind of thing that would interest people like us and give them the blockbuster Marvel type box-office.

Now they've been working furiously to 'fix' the film with a big, visually-noisy CGI ending that they think dumb audiences want (somebody must believe that because we see those things all the time).

The result is that we're likely to get a film that's sort of interesting (though not what we want from the Fantastic Four) through the first two acts and then an incomprehensible battle at the end.

Again, that's some wild speculation, but I think it fits everything we've seen and know.

That sounds about right. At one time it appears FOX execs, Kinberg, Vaughn and Trank were all on board with a a low cost, grim, gritty, lo-fi, twenty-something version of the FF. Disassociate the reboot completely from the failed Story films, keep the budget low, reset the rights clock for another 7 years. Sounds like a plan!

But fan backlash from Trank's reimagining became impossible to ignore. And Marvel had a monster hit with Guardians. FOX execs realized they had a major problem on their hands, but Trank was obstinate about sticking to his vision.
 
I'll preface this by saying this is just a guess and some wild speculation based on what we're seeing, but this is roughly what I expect is going on:

Trank and Fox have not been seeing eye to eye from the start. That resulted in Fox wanting to replace Trank and when that story broke and Trank became emasculated by it, a bad relationship turned toxic.

Trank's idea for a an intense film in which these powers are an illness (which in Ben's case actually has been a key element of the FF) would make an interesting and unique film, but not a good FF film.

As internet outrage grew, Fox executives realized they were making a film that none of us wanted, and they've been pushing Trank to make this more of a light-hearted film more like Marvel efforts (as Matthew Vaughn recently said film-goers wanted).

But Trank pushed forward with his film, frustrated by studio interference and Simon Kinberg (as a studio rep) looking over his shoulder the whole way. That led to a very unpleasant production experience, and Trank became obstinate and non-cooperative - forcing the studio to have others fill in. That led to the reports that Trank was showing up late and/or high. And maybe Trank was doing some drinking etc. along the way, but if so, I suspect that had something to do with broader events. If he felt happy and empowered and able to make the film he wanted, he would have poured himself into his work.

There may have been some damage to the house, but I suspect that became a bigger issue because of the conflict than it would have been otherwise. Fox used that as an excuse to marginalize Trank. They told him they were taking over and they would have assistant directors finish the primary responsibilities of getting this thing put together.

They had enough on Trank (with the house etc.) that they could 'fire' him, but that would look bad for him and them and it would be better for everyone all around if he would stay on in a symbolic role.

At that point, they had a rough cut of a 'grounded gritty' film that was probably actually sort of interesting, but Fox realized it wasn't the kind of thing that would interest people like us and give them the blockbuster Marvel type box-office.

Now they've been working furiously to 'fix' the film with a big, visually-noisy CGI ending that they think dumb audiences want (somebody must believe that because we see those things all the time).

The result is that we're likely to get a film that's sort of interesting (though not what we want from the Fantastic Four) through the first two acts and then an incomprehensible battle at the end.


Again, that's some wild speculation, but I think it fits everything we've seen and know.

That's all very interesting. Maybe things did progress this way. I'm curious though how Fox are going to market this? Just take everything from the last action-packed act and stick it in the trailer? But in actuality, this is going to end up as two halves of two very different films. And in order to get to the noisy last act, you've got to sit through the boring first two acts which is a rehash of Chronicle. Not everyone has the patience to do that.

It would be like pulling teeth just to wait for a rather small payoff at the end with this action finale in Dimension N that may not even be all its cracked up to be.
 
:up:

Willie, you should totally write the screenplay for the upcoming film Grounded: The Untold Story of Josh Trank's Fantastic Four.

I'll help with all the gags and puns at the characters' expense. :oldrazz:
 
I'll preface this by saying this is just a guess and some wild speculation based on what we're seeing, but this is roughly what I expect is going on:
...
Again, that's some wild speculation, but I think it fits everything we've seen and know.

this whole comment...100% best type of speculation.
right on.
 
I wonder at what point though Fox formally remove Trank as director if things became really toxic. Do you really want him as a figurehead if he gains a very bad reputation or is it better for Fox to own up to their mistake and say that he was a promising director but didn't turn out to be as professional as they would hope someone in this industry should be? If it's the lesser of two evils to fire him officially, isn't that something they could eventually do at some point?
 
If the trailer is the start of some sort of publicity campaign I wonder if we will see Trank appear or if Kinberg will be the one that Fox use as the face of the campaign, if it is Kinberg then it would lend a lot of weight the the idea of problems with the production if Fox continue to keep Trank away from the press. Lets not forget that last time we had any kind of statement from Trank was about 9 months ago, and that wasn't even about this film.
 
If the trailer is the start of some sort of publicity campaign I wonder if we will see Trank appear or if Kinberg will be the one that Fox use as the face of the campaign, if it is Kinberg then it would lend a lot of weight the the idea of problems with the production if Fox continue to keep Trank away from the press. Lets not forget that last time we had any kind of statement from Trank was about 9 months ago, and that wasn't even about this film.

I was just thinking how telling this is. There are a lot of rumors about Trank. We haven't heard anything from Trank. Kinberg just said that Trank is still directing.

Kinberg just said . . .

Why are we hearing from Kinberg instead of Trank? Let's hear it from Trank. Until Trank appears in some form, Fox is not going to be able to end these rumors.
 
Don't Fox realise that this film is a money pit? They're just throwing away good money after bad to try and fix this thing. At what point does it not become worth it and they decide to cut their losses? Or maybe they never will in this case.
 
It's obvious that Disney refused to throw them a lifeline. At this point, cut your losses. They still need a film that can be as big and wide enough in scope to effectively damage and kill off the brand before it reverts. If they spend the bare minimum and release an independent type film, it's not going to have that effect. Fox just needs to kill the brand off in the most efficient manner without spending too much, just enough such that the franchise is no longer profitable. That would be my goal based if I am Fox and I know the film can no longer be salvaged. But maybe they still feel they have something there if they keep working on it, enough to turn a profit.
 
It's obvious that Disney refused to throw them a lifeline. At this point, cut your losses. They still need a film that can be as big and wide enough in scope to effectively damage and kill off the brand before it reverts. If they spend the bare minimum and release an independent type film, it's not going to have that effect. Fox just needs to kill the brand off in the most efficient manner without spending too much, just enough such that the franchise is no longer profitable. That would be my goal based if I am Fox and I know the film can no longer be salvaged. But maybe they still feel they have something there if they keep working on it, enough to turn a profit.

But they are spending more now. If they wanted to simply do as you're saying, they would've left it as Chronicle 2 instead of spending more money to have scenes reshot. The more expense that goes into it the less profitable it becomes for them and it becomes less worth it to go to all that trouble to poison the brand.
 
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