The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 9

[Human Torch]

Also I would hardly give credit to X-Men for Jennifer Lawrence's rise to stardom. A little film series called The Hunger Games might have had something to do with that along with her Oscar. I feel Ellen Page established herself with the acclaimed film Juno. I'd probably take exception with the others as well but will definitely agree on Jackman. X-Men put him on the map.

Yeah, TBH Jackman and maybe McAvoy would be the only ones that became household names solely due to X-Men.

 

[Dark Raven]

Also I would hardly give credit to X-Men for Jennifer Lawrence's rise to stardom. A little film series called The Hunger Games might have had something to do with that along with her Oscar. I feel Ellen Page established herself with the acclaimed film Juno. I'd probably take exception with the others as well but will definitely agree on Jackman. X-Men put him on the map.

Hunger Games? Pfft. Lawrence had such a small part in that. It was barely a cameo.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Fox gave us Avatar. I'm confident if they really wanted they could give us the version of Fantastic Four we'd all love to see. But the problem is they've always treated this property like their red headed stepchild. They want it to spit out coins for them but they don't want to do the team any real justice. I've never ever believed they have any clue as to how to make a proper Fantastic Four film. Even their X-Men series is up and own. Fox swings and misses more often than not.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Yeah, TBH Jackman and maybe McAvoy would be the only ones that became household names solely due to X-Men.

Even McAvoy is debatable. He had a budding career beforehand. Narnia, Wanted and Last King of Scotland.

 

[Dark Raven]

Fox gave us Avatar. I'm confident if they really wanted they could give us the version of Fantastic Four we'd all love to see. But the problem is they've always treated this property like their red headed stepchild. They want it to spit out coins for them but they don't want to do the team any real justice. I've never ever believed they have any clue as to how to make a proper Fantastic Four film. Even their X-Men series is up and own. Fox swings and misses more often than not.

As the saying goes, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

And ironically, Fox have given far more attention to both The Peanuts Movie and the Planet of the Apes franchise.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

And keeping this movie hidden in this way, what we'll get ultimately is a pig in a poke.

Fox is truly an animal house.

I'd say Fox is more like a cow on roller skates but a leopard doesn't change its spots. Trank's film is just Fox's guinea pig. They're hoping for a cash cow but they are blind as a bat that they're betting on the wrong horse. Any trailer they release will be nothing but a dog and pony show. Announcing a sequel was putting the cart before the horse. This film will succeed in a pig's eye but I'm probably just beating a dead horse.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

As the saying goes, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

And ironically, Fox have given far more attention to both The Peanuts Movie and the Planet of the Apes franchise.

 

[terry78]

I'd say Fox is more like a cow on roller skates but a leopard doesn't change its spots. Trank's film is just Fox's guinea pig. They're hoping for a cash cow but they are blind as a bat that they're betting on the wrong horse. Any trailer they release will be nothing but a dog and pony show. Announcing a sequel was putting the cart before the horse. This film will succeed in a pig's eye but I'm probably just beating a dead horse.

I think you missed one.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I think you missed one.

Well I didn't want to go whole hog.

 

[Xrathe]

I think a lot of people fail to realize Marvel built ways to regain the rights into the original contracts.

If you look at The Punisher, Ghost Rider, and Blade you can easily see there's some type of earnings clause built into the contracts. Just because FF sees the light of day doesn't automatically mean Fox gets to keep churning out these pieces of garbage in perpetuity.

If these re-shoots are occurring in the massive scale the internet would lead us to believe the budget for this thing is skyrocketing. Any legitimate MCU fan has already decided they are not going to support the movie regardless of the final product so they are already starting at a disadvantage since the target audience actively wants the movie to fail.

Marvel/Disney know exactly what they are doing and could likely just buy the rights back if they so wanted to, but they are aware this movie is going to be an utter failure.

Why spend money on something you're likely going to get back for free anyway?

You better believe Marvel has some story-lines already created in the event the rights revert. For as hard as they are working to gain access to Spider-Man, the Silver Surfer is also quite important in the story they are telling.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Also I would hardly give credit to X-Men for Jennifer Lawrence's rise to stardom. A little film series called The Hunger Games might have had something to do with that along with her Oscar.

J-Law was already critically renowned because of Winter's Bone, which she got nominated for an Oscar. And THG (which she got cast in before even FC was released) along with her Oscar win and acceptance speech was did far more in terms of her mainstream fame than FC.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fox gave us Avatar. I'm confident if they really wanted they could give us the version of Fantastic Four we'd all love to see. But the problem is they've always treated this property like their red headed stepchild. They want it to spit out coins for them but they don't want to do the team any real justice. I've never ever believed they have any clue as to how to make a proper Fantastic Four film. Even their X-Men series is up and own. Fox swings and misses more often than not.

That's what drives me crazy. They're capable of making a film better than anything Marvel or Sony has ever done.

They just need to get a talented director who likes comic books, understands why other people like comic books and is able to capture those elements on film. And then they need to fully support that director.

I can imagine a Fantastic Four film that would make the Marvel films we've seen so far seem flat and unambitious.

In the 1960's, films were limited. Film-makers didn't have the money or technology to put whatever they wanted on film, so there were always limitations. But comic books weren't limited. Anything an artist could imagine could be drawn and that's why we enjoyed them so much.

Now film technology has reached the level at which anything that can be imagined can be put on film.

We're all out here just waiting for someone to finally put all the pieces together and really do it right. Marvel has come close with some films, but I haven't yet seen one that's as good as it could be.

Fox could be first, but they're chickensh*** - afraid to go all out. If they weren't such cowards, we could be looking forward to an amazing experience in August. Fox could make a film that wouldn't only redefine comic-book films, but one that could do to films what Star Wars did in 1977 - open our eyes to just how effectively a film can transport us to an amazing new world.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think a lot of people fail to realize Marvel built ways to regain the rights into the original contracts.

If you look at The Punisher, Ghost Rider, and Blade you can easily see there's some type of earnings clause built into the contracts. Just because FF sees the light of day doesn't automatically mean Fox gets to keep churning out these pieces of garbage in perpetuity.

This is an intriguing concept, but do you have any evidence other than speculation that there are any sort of earnings clauses?

Isn't it possible that those studios just gave up on the properties after their poor earnings as opposed to being contractually obligated to give them up?

 

[Dark Raven]

I'd say Fox is more like a cow on roller skates but a leopard doesn't change its spots. Trank's film is just Fox's guinea pig. They're hoping for a cash cow but they are blind as a bat that they're betting on the wrong horse. Any trailer they release will be nothing but a dog and pony show. Announcing a sequel was putting the cart before the horse. This film will succeed in a pig's eye but I'm probably just beating a dead horse.

In light of all these animal antics, it would be nice if Trank's FFINO bought the farm.

 

[justanotherguy]

Another thread from the same tigerdroppings site reported the same stuff the first thread did. but this tidbit was dropped by a poster named iwyLSUiwy

The buzz around here in shreveport is that they are talking about cutting there loses and dropping it all together.

That's just what I've been hearing from all the high up moview guys I've talked to/interviewed.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/55011756/more-great-news-for-the-fantastic-4-reboot/

 

[Spiderine]

I don't think there is some sort of earnings clause even though it would make sense. I just think once the property outright bombs or no longer has any potential to make money they wouldn't risk any more investment from the studio. Any intelligent studio would simply give up on the property anyways if there is a time limit for they lose the rights.

Technically they tried again with Punisher and Ghostrider. Making a profit with smaller budgets for one last ditch effort before handing them over. No longer viable to them. This is FOX last attempt I would presume to make something out of nothing. I still stand by my belief FOX wanted a deal and tried to work Disney over. And they can continue to do it after the release of this film.

 

[Surfer]

This is an intriguing concept, but do you have any evidence other than speculation that there are any sort of earnings clauses?

Isn't it possible that those studios just gave up on the properties after their poor earnings as opposed to being contractually obligated to give them up?

I agree it would be nice if a certain amount needed to be made in order for Fox to retain the rights and it would explain their need to throw money at it in hopes of getting a bigger return. Another clause that I would hope is in the contract is that it be shown at a required number of theaters. It would piss me off if they just put it in a few theaters to keep the rights. So hopefully Marvel was smarter then that.

Surfer

 

[Dark Raven]

Another thread from the same tigerdroppings site reported the same stuff the first thread did. but this tidbit was dropped by a poster named iwyLSUiwy



http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/55011756/more-great-news-for-the-fantastic-4-reboot/

Well that would be nice if true, but would Fox really consider dropping it altogether? That means they would concede publicly that it was a mistake. Would that mean that they would give it back to Marvel? Because if they do drop it altogether, what else are they going to do with it? They can't exactly start a new FF production.

Their best bet, if they didn't want to drop it completely, is film enough new footage to make this into Chronicle 2, and then actually retitle it as such so that they can market it that way. Then it wouldn't be a total loss and they could still recoup some money. It's the name of FF that is getting in the way and preventing them from not seeing straight.

 

[Orba]

I doubt that their is an earnings clause, if there had been one I would have thought that the Punisher rights would have reverted back in 2008 after Punisher:War Zone bombed hard, making only $10 million on a $35 million production budget. To be honest I would think that Marvel would have just thought that if a studio was loosing money on a Marvel franchise they would have the sense to give up and let the rights revert.

 

[Orba]

Another thread from the same tigerdroppings site reported the same stuff the first thread did. but this tidbit was dropped by a poster named iwyLSUiwy



http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/55011756/more-great-news-for-the-fantastic-4-reboot/

Bleeding Cool mentioned that they had heard something similar in http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/01/16/fox-spin-back-as-they-confirm-fantastic-four-reshoots/

 

[Mr.M]

Well that would be nice if true, but would Fox really consider dropping it altogether? That means they would concede publicly that it was a mistake. Would that mean that they would give it back to Marvel? Because if they do drop it altogether, what else are they going to do with it? They can't exactly start a new FF production.

Their best bet, if they didn't want to drop it completely, is film enough new footage to make this into Chronicle 2, and then actually retitle it as such so that they can market it that way. Then it wouldn't be a total loss and they could still recoup some money. It's the name of FF that is getting in the way and preventing them from not seeing straight.

It can be dropped if they get money from Disney, and Disney promises these actors and crew some work in the future, because I would expect Fox to get litigated if they choose to can the entire film and screw over the personnel. I mean how does the payroll work? What about incentives and bonuses post release?

 

[Miken Ayers]

I don't think there is some sort of earnings clause even though it would make sense. I just think once the property outright bombs or no longer has any potential to make money they wouldn't risk any more investment from the studio. Any intelligent studio would simply give up on the property anyways if there is a time limit for they lose the rights.

Technically they tried again with Punisher and Ghostrider. Making a profit with smaller budgets for one last ditch effort before handing them over. No longer viable to them. This is FOX last attempt I would presume to make something out of nothing. I still stand by my belief FOX wanted a deal and tried to work Disney over. And they can continue to do it after the release of this film.

I believe there is some sort of earnings clause, but nothing significant. However Marvel does have 100% merchandising rights. Part of the reason they aren't disowning Spider-Man is because they made 300 million in profit off of his merch. This is also part of the reason Sony's upset. The movie just a little more than broke even while Marvel made all the profits from their heavy lifting.

 

[Miken Ayers]

It can be dropped if they get money from Disney, and Disney promises these actors and crew some work in the future, because I would expect Fox to get litigated if they choose to can the entire film and screw over the personnel. I mean how does the payroll work? What about incentives and bonuses post release?

Whether the movie sees the light of day or not, everyone involved still get's paid for their work.

 

[Zarex]

It can be dropped if they get money from Disney, and Disney promises these actors and crew some work in the future, because I would expect Fox to get litigated if they choose to can the entire film and screw over the personnel. I mean how does the payroll work? What about incentives and bonuses post release?

I mentioned this before:

1) Disney allows FOX extra time to complete the film and kicks in 50% of the production cost ($50 million?)
2) The film is released under the title "The Ultimates" on VOD.
3) FOX and Marvel agree to increase cooperation on scheduling and Marvel approves limited merchandising for X Men: Apocalypse.
4) FOX declares "We win!"
5). The rights to the FF family of characters revert to Marvel.
6). The team makes their MCU debut in the post credit scene to Infinity War Part 2.

 

[Mr.M]

I mentioned this before:

1) Disney allows FOX extra time to complete the film and kicks in 50% of the production cost ($50 million?)
2) The film is released under the title "The Ultimates" on VOD.
3) FOX and Marvel agree to increase cooperation on scheduling and Marvel approves limited merchandising for X Men: Apocalypse.
4) FOX declares "We win!"
5). The rights to the FF family of characters revert to Marvel.
6). The team makes their MCU debut in the post credit scene to Infinity War Part 2.

Sorry, you lost me after 1.

Fox just needs to get their money back if this reshoot thing is true. If Disney can't match that, they don't deserve the rights (assuming Fox isn't 200 in the red or anything).