The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[The Joker]

Ok Crook, we'll just agree to disagree. I feel like I'd just be repeating myself if we continued with this.

Cheers for a good debate though

 

[CaptainClown]

I have to find a link but I know in one interview he said something like "he wanted to make it so it was whatever the reader initially thought" Nothing clearly stated while not denying it either. Joker's actions all depend on the reader.

Also I don't see why it would have to be stated and when I initially read TKJ. It felt that Batman's reaction to the whole mess was that Joker had sexually assaulted Barbara and shot her. Which seemed to fit his look at the time. Where as I believe he would be angry about Barbara being shot just not as furious. For some reason in my mind sexual assault is a tad more "personal" then acts of just violence.

Also I think we are best talking about the rape sequence in TKJ and not other stories. The action of paralyzing Barbara is the only certain thing where as the other aspects of the story are kind of cherry picked into canon.

 

[Crook]

Ok Crook, we'll just agree to disagree. I feel like I'd just be repeating myself if we continued with this.

Cheers for a good debate though

The feeling's mutual.

If I ever find that Moore quote, I'll be sure to post. He is the writer after all, so he's the only person that can really settle the issue. But I understand the skepticism without providing proof. However, in all these years it seems no one has decided to carry the (hidden) torch so to speak, so it might be irrelevant.

 

[p4poetic]

Joker never came across as a rapist, I just don't think he seriously would think it's all that har-de-har-har. Plus, I know he's supposed to the villain everyone loves to hate, but his fanbase would be a little squicked out if he started raping peeps. Funny how murder is tolerable, yet raping or child molestation is viewed as the ultimate no-no.

They're both terrible, ain't it.

But even a murderer would spit on a child molester.

He's got power and control over many victims in more humourously twisted ways than that. There was no humour in that scene either. It's all about the method and style with the Joker. He sees himself as a performance artist, and Gotham City is his stage. Like he told Carnage, any idiot can kill.

There's nothing stylish or theatrical about rape. Just like pealing the skin off someone, or chopping them up into pieces. These kinds of acts are things the Joker would deem gross and distasteful.

Can anyone here show one shred of evidence from Joker's 68+ year history in the comics where rape or any kind of sexual crimes have interested him? If someone can do that, then I'll concede to the notion that rape is something the Joker would do.

Completely agree.

Only in B89 do we see the Joker as very sexually active, but I don't believe he'd participate in any villainous sex crimes. I know this is animated kids show, but I still think its worth mentioning that the Joker is shown to be completely asexual in BTAS (from what I remember, he never showed any remote interest toward women, and found Harley annoying for the most part). TDK's Joker showed attraction to women (he thinks Rachael is beautiful and claims to have had a wife) but I saw him little bit asexual as well.

 

[terry78]

Honestly, if there is one person he would probably ever consenually rape, it's Batman himself...because as the adage goes, he is pretty gay for the Bat. I remember that issue he has Luthor tied up and he basically remarks that Joker is just jealous of Catwoman and other females because Batman still hasn't "asked him to the prom." That just made him explode.

 

[p4poetic]

How's he gonna get that Batsuit off'a him?

I can see him giving him a little kiss on the cheek just to **** with him, but nah...

'Sorry Bruce, but I don't do bats'
- the Joker

 

[CaptainClown]

Joker actually raping Batman? A lil much even for the Joker. Kissing batman yes I can see that. Slapping his ass? yes i can see that...raping him?...Sounds like bad fan fiction right there.

 

[BestGirl]

Only in B89 do we see the Joker as very sexually active, but I don't believe he'd participate in any villainous sex crimes. I know this is animated kids show, but I still think its worth mentioning that the Joker is shown to be completely asexual in BTAS (from what I remember, he never showed any remote interest toward women, and found Harley annoying for the most part). TDK's Joker showed attraction to women (he thinks Rachael is beautiful and claims to have had a wife) but I saw him little bit asexual as well.

In one episode Harley did dress in a provocative red nightie and asks the Joker to literally rev her up.

I agree with you about the Joker seeming to be asexual in TDK. That flirtation with Rachel was probably an act for the benefit of the other guests and that story about his alleged wife sounded made-up. I can't see TDK Joker being married or in a loving relationship with anyone ever.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea, no thanks to Joker raping Batman.

I was wondering, what's everyones favourite interpretation of Joker? From personality to appearance/art and story/writing. Comic, Film or TV

 

[terry78]

Man, I just got an image of Joker having his way with the Bat....and I just started laughing for some reason. OK, now the image has gotten disturbing, let's all just leave it alone as Knaves suggested.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Yea, no thanks to Joker raping Batman.

I was wondering, what's everyones favourite interpretation of Joker? From personality to appearance/art and story/writing. Comic, Film or TV

I'll probably go with the TLH version. Tall and lanky with a cutting sense of humor. Maybe I would have preferred him to be a little more unstable. He seemed a little "controlled" to me.

I also definitely liked the brief scene in Two-Face:Year One, where Joker is calling people, telling them to vote for Dent. He is non chalantly sitting at a table with people killed by Joker Venom and he tells someone on the phone "Justice is blind, or your children will be if you dont vote for Two Face. I'll cut out their..." Dent then punches him and Joker asks "What? Too much?" He's funny but a little more unhinged than in TLH.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Behind The voice actors of - THE JOKER

BTVA POLL
Who do you think has been the best Joker voice over?

Mark Hamill - 92%

Kevin Michael Richardson - 4%

Jeff Bennett - 0%

Michael McKean - 0%

Larry Storch - 4%

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/voice-compare/Joker/?p=show

 

[The Joker]

Behind The voice actors of - THE JOKER

BTVA POLL
Who do you think has been the best Joker voice over?

Mark Hamill - 92%

Kevin Michael Richardson - 4%

Jeff Bennett - 0%

Michael McKean - 0%

Larry Storch - 4%

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/voice-compare/Joker/?p=show

Man, it's not even a contest. Mark Hamill wipes the floor with all of them.

 

[regwec]

Regarding TKJ: The Joker stripped Babs, photographed her, and showed the pictures to her father. That is a sexual assualt, against both father and daughter. But it isn't rape. I cannot see basic coital rape of a woman to be something that would interest The Joker: it is too obvious, his sexuality is too complex, it is too personal and insufficiently theatrical, the element of personal fulfilment is too direct, and it is neither creative or classy. I see him as too fastidious, in a certain way, too.

One can answer all of these objections by pointing out that The Joker is never the same twice. True. But he does operate along themes that seem to govern his behavious: usually a sort of grandstanding mockery of his oponents, born of his own dellusions of grandeur. Raping a girl- in cooperation with a lot of classless low-lifes, particularly- just doesn't seem to fit this.

I see The Joker as being like the bad fairy in folklore. He is cruel, deadly and tricky, but for him it is all pure entertainment. That allows for all sorts of behaviour, but acts of direct self gratification like rape don't seem to fit the bill.

 

[Timstuff]

Here's a little tribute to Ledger's Joker that I whipped up. I think it pretty much hits all the right notes.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I still dont understand whats supposed to be going on in those pics.

 

[BestGirl]

I still dont understand whats supposed to be going on in those pics.

Funny statement from the guy with the crazy avatar.

The audience is reacting to the pics. I heard the first picture of the Joker wasn't well received, hence the audience's subdued reaction. The audience becomes more excited as he looks more Jokerish.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Yeah, those pictures accurately represent the fan reaction to each. For the first picture, the scars were a lot more extreme and lipstick a lot more smudged than in the actual film, so people were really disappointed. And it didn't help that none of his hair was showing. The skepticism started to die down with the leaked pics and the release of the Halloween Joker picture, and fan reaction just got more positive from there.

 

[Voorhees]

I'm watching the movie right now...the magic trick scene never gets old...and this performance is just awesome altogether, one of the best I've ever seen.

 

[Rasputin911]

Yea, no thanks to Joker raping Batman.

I was wondering, what's everyones favourite interpretation of Joker? From personality to appearance/art and story/writing. Comic, Film or TV

A tie between Miller's TDKR Joker and Heath Ledger.

But regarding this whole rape business, if writers really want to disturb people they should have Joker rape a man. Pure and simple. Its really the only sexual assault i could see Joker doing, just because its so nasty/disturbing. That doesen't mean he's a homosexual, just that he's willing to "go there"

 

[regwec]

I don't know why a sexually predatory dimension for the character needs to be invented. He managed to be sufficiently scary, threatening and eerie without it.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea. I dunno though, I would mind a film or story with Joker and Harley similar to Natural Born Killers. All surreal and nightmarish. A twisted crime/love story set in Gotham or something.

 

[Rasputin911]

^take out the Harley Quinn part and you've got yourself a deal!


And Regwec, i agree that his sexual nature shouldn't be explored that much. Its just that everyone was debating the best way for Joker to rape someone, so i put in my two cents. I wouldn't have him committing sex crimes myself

 

[p4poetic]

Behind The voice actors of - THE JOKER

BTVA POLL
Who do you think has been the best Joker voice over?

Mark Hamill - 92%

Kevin Michael Richardson - 4%

Jeff Bennett - 0%

Michael McKean - 0%

Larry Storch - 4%

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/voice-compare/Joker/?p=show

LOL they mine as well have not made that poll.

 

[TheBateman]

Anyone catch this? If you look closely during the hospital scene, on the side of his face he has a rather large pink dot which, to me anyway, indicates that he was about to put pink lipstick on to go with his female nurse outfit - but it's though he stopped himself and decided against it. Twisted little detail that only makes The Joker more incredible in this film.