The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Even today Michelle Is beautiful.Also Michelle Is good choice for older woman-Younger
guy roles.In Stardust when not In old age makeup she was most beautful woman In
film.

Shes already done the cougar phase...

Can't believe she is actually playing Chris Pine's mother now...

 

[marvelrobbins]

Yep.I know that.I was aying she could be good choice for that even now.It Is strange for her to play Chris Pine's mother.Some suggested In Dark Shadows they cast Chloe Moretz as her daughter(The character of Carolyn Is In late teens on the show) because Michelle didn't want to play a mother onscreen with that old a child but playing Chris Pine's mother blows that theory away.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I like Michelle Pfeiffer because she looks a lot like my mother.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I like Michelle Pfeiffer because she looks a lot like my mother.

Oh reeeeeally...

Just kidding dude. I guess your moms very lucky.

 

[marvelrobbins]

It's kinda offtopic but early reviews say Michelle gives her best performance In years In
Dark Shadows.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

EMPIRE talks about how Michelle Pfeiffer got her part in Dark Shadows... by calling Tim Burton personally.

Naturally the conversation turned to Batman Returns...

EMPIRE: Had you spoken to Tim in the 20 years since you worked on Batman Returns?
PFEIFFER: No. I don't think I had.

EMPIRE: So what was that conversation like?
PFEIFFER: He was so lovely. He was the same Tim. I always feel comfortable with him because we have very similar backgrounds - we grew up in similar neighbourhoods and obviously watched the same TV shows.

EMPIRE: Was there any change in him?
PFEIFFER: He kept saying to me, ''Am I different? Am I different at all? I'm less intense right?'' No. He's every bit as intense as he was. He's clearly happier. He's got this amazing partner and beautiful children. He's still a lot of fun on set.

EMPIRE:Was working on Batman Returns a happy experience? Those big movies with lots of complicated costumes and sequences tend to be trying.
PFEIFFER: It was very happy, but completely exhausting. I think just because of the physicality of it all, Not only the shooting, but also theres a tremendous amount of training that went into it because its such a physical role. Then of course the costume was alot to have to live in for such a long shoot. You have to get into it in the morning - which was a process, let me tell you - then live in it all day. It wasn't the most comfortable but it was so worth it. And it was a long shoot. We were shooting in, I think, the middle of Summer and they air-conditioned the stage to a really low temperature so you could see our breath. It was freezing. You'd walk outside and it was 110 degrees in Burbank and then you'd come on set and everyone was wrapped up in parkas. How we didn't all get sick I don't even know. Danny (DeVito) was as happy as a clam because he was in that big penguin suit, so he was just toasty. I was in this thin rubber catsuit, freezing my little tail off.

EMPIRE: With Danny in padding, you in thin rubber and Michael Keaton in thick rubber, there can't have been a single time when everyone was comfortable?
PFEIFFER: No, and I don't imagine Danny was all that comfortable under all those prosthetics. Now that I've done prosthetics, which I hadn't at that point, I know how uncomfortable they are to be in. I'd rather be cold in a rubber suit than have stuff glued to my face.

EMPIRE: Catwoman is one of the defining roles of your career. Did you say yes to her immediately?
PFEIFFER: Immediately. I was Halfway through the script when I said yes. Someone else was cast in the part (Annette Benning) and I remember being absolutely devastated and calling my agent and saying ''How have I not had a meeting?'' It was one of those things where Tim had someone in mind and went directly to them. So I was really bummed, but it was okay. When she fell out of it I was just leaving the country and got a call to say Tim wanted to meet me. So I went and he gave me the script and I got halfway through and said yes. But you know, honestly, I would have done it anyway, even without reading the script. But I was very happy that she was actually very well written.

EMPIRE: What was most attractive aspect for you?
PFEIFFER: I think that she was just so dark. Dark characters are always more interesting and shes really very dark. That whole split personality is interesting. Also, she was one of my childhood fantasties.

EMPIRE: Based on the comics or TV show? Who was your Catwoman?
PFEIFFER: I think Julie Newmar was my Catwoman.

EMPIRE: It was left open at the end of that film for Catwoman to return. What discussion was there about reprising that role?
PFEIFFER: Oh, very little. For a while, like a really brief time, Tim was interested in maybe doing a Catwoman movie, but that didn't really last very long.

EMPIRE: What are your feeling of Anne Hathaway now playing her in The Dark Knight Rises?
PFEIFFER: Oh, I think shes great. I'm actually very much looking forward to seeing her in the role. I'm a big fan of hers and I think she has everything you need for that role. She has the humour, she can go to dark places, shes obviously very talented. I think shes going to to be really good.

EMPIRE: What do you think of Christopher Nolan's take on the Batman universe?
PFEIFFER: I love it. Its very different to Tim's but I'm a fan.

EMPIRE: So your not protective of a role that has become defined by your performance?
PFEIFFER: Oh no. Halle Berry did it already. It's fine. The whole thing with Batman is that they're always changing the world with each director. I would have loved to have done it, but I know thats not really what the franchise is about now.

EMPIRE: You mean you would have loved to be Catwoman in Christopher Nolan's world?
PFEIFFER: Oh sure. I definitely would have done it.

EMPIRE: That could have been interesting.
PFEIFFER: I think so.

Nice read... for anyone interested.

 

[The Joker]

Great interview. I love her enthusiasm for playing Catwoman, even today she would want to play her again. Plus her support for Anne Hathaway and Nolan's movies.

What a class act she is.

 

[Dave McFly]

I LOVE that gif

I have yet to see Stardust

 

[Ponyboy]

I have yet to see Stardust

Fantastic movie, and a great performance from Michelle t:

 

[Marvolo]

I've watched bits and pieces of this film many times throught my childhood, but never liked it. It was more of a Burton film than a Batman film. Danny's penguine was just so out there and weird. The mayor plot seemed ridiculous. The whole movie just always seemed weird and dark.

Well here I am years later, and I realized I've never seen this movie all the way through in one sitting so I decided to give it a go. Holy hell Batman! Its easily my favorite Batman film of the Burton two now and may be my favorite of them all. Having went back and watched it, took it all in, and watched the behind the scene features I understand the film and what Burton was going for. Besides I've always loved Pfieffer's Catwoman and now that I "get" the film its definitely one of my favorites. There is so much of this film that just went over my head as a kid. The sexual innuendo runs rampant and its really great and I love the one liners and chemistry between Batman and catwoman.

Anyways here's a proclaimed hater turned staunch supporter.

 

[Ponyboy]

Anyways here's a proclaimed hater turned staunch supporter.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

That article is amazing, shes so humble and seems so proud of her role as the character.

 

[El Payaso]

I've watched bits and pieces of this film many times throught my childhood, but never liked it. It was more of a Burton film than a Batman film. Danny's penguine was just so out there and weird. The mayor plot seemed ridiculous. The whole movie just always seemed weird and dark.

Well here I am years later, and I realized I've never seen this movie all the way through in one sitting so I decided to give it a go. Holy hell Batman! Its easily my favorite Batman film of the Burton two now and may be my favorite of them all. Having went back and watched it, took it all in, and watched the behind the scene features I understand the film and what Burton was going for. Besides I've always loved Pfieffer's Catwoman and now that I "get" the film its definitely one of my favorites. There is so much of this film that just went over my head as a kid. The sexual innuendo runs rampant and its really great and I love the one liners and chemistry between Batman and catwoman.

Anyways here's a proclaimed hater turned staunch supporter.

Conversion!

 

[Cassandra Cain]

Spoiler

Iconic even today.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Spoiler

Iconic even today.

Flawless.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Agreed, and this is the real Superman.

Christopher Reeve isn't the "real" Superman to me, but your post got me thinking about the live-action actors that personified the DC comic book characters the fullest in my opinion. Out of all of the live-action actors, George Reeves is the "real" Superman to me, and Michael Keaton is the "real" Batman to me. George Reeves captured Superman's charisma, confidence, aggressiveness, maturity, dedication to a never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American way. George Reeves captured both Superman's rugged and distinguished sides, authoritative fatherly figure, yet gentlemanly, and polite, and Clark Kent's coy, believably mild-mannered persona without acting bumbling and inept (Christopher Reeve's Kent). Christopher Reeve's Superman was none-aggressive, less enthusiastic and willing to give up his life as Superman to be with Lois Lane. Jason Kemp in Rear Window was Christopher Reeve’s best performance in my opinion. Kirk Alyn's Clark Kent was bumbling and his Superman was goofy, prancing and skipping around like a flea. Dean Cain lacked the mature presence and gravitas of Superman. Brandon Routh's Superman was a non-violent, sensitive, emasculated metrosexual, deadbeat dad, jealous peeping tom, soft spoken baby-faced pretty boy with brown hair wearing a spandex costume with low-riding short-shorts. Henry Cavill's Clark Kent is reportedly lonely, angst-ridden, not wanting to be Superman, and reluctantly grappling with whether or not he should become Superman.

Michael Keaton captured Batman's innate grimness, maturity, self-reliance, capability as a detective, inventor, mechanic, etc., displaying controlled calculating anger, intimidation, and Bruce Wayne's playboy persona and philanthropy without acting like a sterile saint (Adam West's Wayne, as is West's Batman) or a pompous jerk (Christian Bale's Wayne). Lewis Wilson lacked the distinction between Bruce Wayne and Batman's voices that Michael Keaton utilized so well. Over-weight Robert Lowery lacked Batman's fit figure, mobility and looked laughably ridiculous in costume. Val Kilmer's Bruce Wayne lacked the black hair and lacked the confidence of Bruce Wayne, as he displayed an uncomfortablity, awkwardness and was unsure of himself, and Kilmer's Batman spouted dialogue that is ridiculously out of character for Batman, "Chicks dig the car," "I'll get drive thru," etc. And getting over has parents death and deciding to quit being Batman to live as Bruce Wayne misses the driving force of the Batman character which is that he's avenging his parents by dedicated his life to warring on crime, and unlike Peter Parker, there is no looking to get out of it. As Keaton's Batman said in Batman, "This is something I have to do. This is how it is. It's not a perfect world." Also, Kilmer's Bruce Wayne says "I killed them", in Batman Forever, has a Uncle Ben guilt complex over his parents death. And Kilmer's Batman complains like a worried girlfriend after Robin just saved his life, "You could have gotten yourself killed!" George Clooney's Batman lacks any menace and Clooney's Bruce Wayne acts and speaks identical to his Batman, detached and bemused with a tendency to smile at somber moments. Christian Bale's Batman lacks Batman's detective skills, strategy skills, etc., while Cain's Alfred, Freeman's Lucius and Oldman's Gordon do a lot of the thinking for him. Patrick Bateman in American Psycho was Christian Bale's best performance in my opinion.

Lynda Carter is the "real" Wonder Woman to me. Lynda Carter captured Wonder Woman's strength, independence, security, self-reliance, nobility and upbeat personality. Lynda Carter captured Wonder Woman as the strong, noble, independent and secure female hero the character was created to be. She was a feminist icon and female role model. Adrianne Palicki's Wonder Woman is heartbroken, sad, mopey, self-pitying, she cries herself to sleep over her ex-boyfriend whom she has been broken up with for four years, which diminishes the character. Adrianne Palicki's Wonder Woman also throws a pipe through someone's throat and stabs him to a door and she tortures a guy for information while breaking his arm, while the lasso of truth is right there at her side. That brutality is completely contradictory to Wonder Woman's mission to bring the Amazon ideals of love and peace to the world of men. Adrianne Palicki's Wonder Woman is also a mega-billionaire, the chairman of Themyscira Industries licensing her image to dolls to make cash for herself. Too often in films and television we see women being portrayed as overly emotional drama-queens, over-reacting divas, breaking down and needing a strong, level-headed independent and secure man to save them. Wonder Woman was created to be a rebuke of that stereotype of women as weak and overly emotional.

Ryan Reynolds captured the humanity of Hal Jordan, the light-hearted humor, the ladies man aspect of Hal, Hal’s human foibles. Howard Murphy‘s portrayal of Hal Jordan in Legends of the Superheroes was completely campy and ridiculous.

Tom Tyler is the "real" Captain Marvel to me. Tom Tyler captured the child-like nature of Captain Marvel with the smile, the sense of having fun during his adventures. Jackson Bostwick and John Davey lacked that child-like quality of Captain Marvel that makes Captain Marvel so unique amongst superheroes.

Michelle Pfeiffer is the "real" Catwoman to me. Michelle Pfeiffer captured Catwoman's playful flirtation toward Batman, her love-hate relationship with Batman over her attraction to him and the conflict of her criminal activities, and the ambiguity of Catwoman being a villain but not being truly evil. Halle Berry's Catwoman isn't even Selina Kyle. Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether and Eartha Kitt's Catwoman was a generic villainess trying to kill Batman and Robin in various death traps. Anne Hathaway’s Catwoman seems to hate Batman/Bruce Wayne for being rich, and hates rich people in general, as her dialogue suggests in the trailer.

Jack Nicholson is the "real" Joker to me. Jack Nicholson captured the Joker's vanity, theatrically, sense of style, chemistry ability. Killing people in stylish and theatrical ways with permanent smiles on their faces through his Joker venom (Smilex). Jack Nicholson captured Joker's style of arbitrary chaos, anarchist schemes with stylish theatricality, and wanting ridiculously vain things like his face on the one dollar bill (which is similar to wanting to copyright fish that look like his face in the comics (Detective Comics #475 (1977) "The Laughing Fish")). Cesar Romero's Joker was a goofy crook with a predilection for slapstick gags and Heath Ledger's Joker lacked the Joker's vanity, theatrically, sense of style, chemistry ability, he was just an anarchist killer in sloppy clown make up, not about killing with style.

Danny DeVito is the "real" Penguin to me. Danny DeVito captured the Penguin's murderous nature, his anger at being an outcast that was rejected by society, his dark humor, even his bird obsession, also his conning personality pretending to be high class and respectable as a front for his villainous activities. Burgess Meredith's Penguin was just a silly crook.

Aaron Eckhart captured the tragedy of Two-Face, the torn, internal struggle of the duality. Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face lacked all of that and was just a silly giggling buffoon.

 

[Marx]

I always love reading interviews with Michelle. She seems far more supportive and classy in regards to Anne than Nicholson did of Heath.

 

[El Payaso]

I always love reading interviews with Michelle. She seems far more supportive and classy in regards to Anne than Nicholson did of Heath.

What did Nicholson ever said about Ledger's work? I mean, other than the infamous "I waaaarrrned him."

 

[theMan-Bat]

Michael Gough is the "real" Alfred to me. He immersed himself in the role and became Alfred. Impeccably groomed with slicked hair, formally dressed. He had the high-class stiff-upper-lip English accent, the dry sarcastic wit, as well as the fatherly concerned for Bruce, wanting Bruce to settle down happily with a nice lady and get married and stop grimly brooding over his parents murders and obsessing on avenging his parents by warring on crime for the rest of his life. William Austin as Alfred lacked the seriousness and parental qualities of Alfred contemporarily. Eric Wilton's Alfred was practically nonexistent. Alan Napier looked more like James Gordon than Alfred and his Alfred was ridiculous, especially wearing an eye-mask under his glasses and disguised as Batman. Michael Caine just looks, acts and speaks like himself with his lower-class thick Cockney accent, "Nevah."

Gary Oldman looks like Gordon in Batman: Year One and captured James Gordon's struggles as a cop trying desperately to support his family in a corrupt city and Gordon's struggle as a cop that must ally himself with a vigilante. Lyle Talbot's Gordon was stiffly acted. Lyle Talbot was a Ed Wood regular. Neil Hamilton's Gordon was inept and totally dependent on Batman. Pat Hingle's Gordon lacked screen time and depth.

16 year old Douglas Croft represented the youth of Robin the Boy Wonder, the rough and tumble nature of young Dick Grayson, eagerness to fight, scoffing at danger, and the resourcefulness: actually helping Batman and saving Batman’s life more than once. John Duncan obviously lacked the youth of Robin the Boy Wonder, Burt Ward's Dick Grayson was very naive, had an affection for holy puns and was easily captured by the villains and Chris O'Donnell's Dick Grayson was a smug, angsty, arrogant and obnoxious diva. Douglas Croft is the only actual teenage kid actor that played Robin. John Duncan was a 26 year old, Burt Ward was a 20 year old and Chris O'Donnell was a 25 year old.

 

[theMan-Bat]

What did Nicholson ever said about Ledger's work? I mean, other than the infamous "I waaaarrrned him."

MTV: "What do you think of another actor, Heath Ledger, playing the Joker in next summer's The Dark Knight?"

Jack Nicholson: "Let me be the way I'm not in interviews. I'm furious. I'm furious. [He laughs]. They never asked me about a sequel with the Joker. I know how to do that! Nobody ever asked me."

MTV: "It was never brought up?"

Jack Nicholson: "No. It's like, in any area, you can't believe the reasons things do or don't happen. Not asking me how to do the sequel is that kind of thing. Maybe it's not a mistake. Maybe it was the right thing, but to be candid, I'm furious."

MTV: "I'm surprised to hear you sounding competitive about a role like that."

Jack Nicholson: "Well, the Joker comes from my childhood. That's how I got involved with it in the first place. It's a part I always thought I should play."

MTV: "Will you see the new film?"

Jack Nicholson: "I'm not inclined to watch it because of what I said. But if it's a good movie, I'll catch up with it somewhere. I don't think they ever really captured Tim Burton's spirit [since he stopped being involved]. They kind of drove the franchise into the ground. Tim Burton's a genius. He had the right take on it. That's why I did the movie. I did the movie based on a single conversation with him. We both come from the cartoon world originally. We had similar ideas. Tim said [the Joker] should have a humorous dark side to him. [Burton is] one of the great moviemakers. I think the world of him. He's the most unassuming man. And he doesn't feel pressure. That's what I love about him. Once he's in there, he's smiling making the movie. That's it!"
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1573617/jack-nicholson-furious-over-heath-ledger-playing-joker.jhtml

About his cryptic "I warned 'em" statement, Jack Nicholson explained, "I warn people about Ambien. I almost drove off a cliff once. I don't take sleeping pills but somebody said, 'Take this, it's mild'. I got a call in the middle of the night, kind of an emergency, and I almost drove off a cliff 50 yards from my house, and I live up in the mountains in Aspen (Colorado). So I warn people about it. But I also did not know Mr. Ledger."
http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/01/24/jack_nicholson_s_near_death_experience_w

 

[mikey1974]

um.... i love Nicholson and all,but is he actually unaware that TDK is the sequel to Nolan's reboot of the franchise, and not a continuation of what Burton started?

 

[mikey1974]

O'Donnell's Robin was an interesting amalgram of all the Boy Wonder's up to that point . he had Dick Grayson's origin,Jason Todd's mannerism's and persona/attitude,and Tim Drake's costume.

 

[theMan-Bat]

um.... i love Nicholson and all,but is he actually unaware that TDK is the sequel to Nolan's reboot of the franchise, and not a continuation of what Burton started?

It seems Jack Nicholson assumed that The Dark Knight was going to be a sequel to his and Tim Burton's Batman movie and he thought they were recasting his Joker/Jack Napier role.

 

[OutRiddled]

Much of what Jack says appears to be tongue-in-cheek. I didn't know he was a fan of the Joker from childhood, though. I guess he grew up reading the original comics.

Michael Gough is the "real" Alfred to me. He immersed himself in the role and became Alfred. Impeccably groomed with slicked hair, formally dressed. He had the high-class stiff-upper-lip English accent, the dry sarcastic wit, as well as the fatherly concerned for Bruce, wanting Bruce to settle down happily with a nice lady and get married and stop grimly brooding over his parents murders and obsessing on avenging his parents by warring on crime for the rest of his life. William Austin as Alfred lacked the seriousness and parental qualities of Alfred contemporarily. Eric Wilton's Alfred was practically nonexistent. Alan Napier looked more like James Gordon than Alfred and his Alfred was ridiculous, especially wearing an eye-mask under his glasses and disguised as Batman. Michael Caine just looks, acts and speaks like himself with his lower-class thick Cockney accent, "Nevah."

Gary Oldman looks like Gordon in Batman: Year One and captured James Gordon's struggles as a cop trying desperately to support his family in a corrupt city and Gordon's struggle as a cop that must allying himself with a vigilante. Lyle Talbot's Gordon was stiffly acted. Lyle Talbot was a Ed Wood regular. Neil Hamilton's Gordon was inept and totally dependent on Batman. Pat Hingle's Gordon lacked screen time and depth.

16 year old Douglas Croft represented the youth of Robin the Boy Wonder, the rough and tumble nature of young Dick Grayson, eagerness to fight, scoffing at danger, and the resourcefulness: actually helping Batman and saving Batman’s life more than once. John Duncan obviously lacked the youth of Robin the Boy Wonder, Burt Ward's Dick Grayson was very naive, had an affection for holy puns and was easily captured by the villains and Chris O'Donnell's Dick Grayson was a smug, angsty, arrogant and obnoxious diva. Douglas Croft is the only actual teenage kid actor that played Robin. John Duncan was a 26 year old, Burt Ward was a 20 year old and Chris O'Donnell was a 25 year old.

What about Riddler? Frank Gorshin or Jim Carrey? I'm more partial to Frank Gorshin, as he is more like the Riddler in the 40s-50s comics.

Mr Freeze I give to Arnie, simply for having the "Heart of Ice" origin.

Bane is no-brainer.

 

[El Payaso]

MTV: "What do you think of another actor, Heath Ledger, playing the Joker in next summer's The Dark Knight?"

Jack Nicholson: "Let me be the way I'm not in interviews. I'm furious. I'm furious. [He laughs]. They never asked me about a sequel with the Joker. I know how to do that! Nobody ever asked me."

MTV: "It was never brought up?"

Jack Nicholson: "No. It's like, in any area, you can't believe the reasons things do or don't happen. Not asking me how to do the sequel is that kind of thing. Maybe it's not a mistake. Maybe it was the right thing, but to be candid, I'm furious."

MTV: "I'm surprised to hear you sounding competitive about a role like that."

Jack Nicholson: "Well, the Joker comes from my childhood. That's how I got involved with it in the first place. It's a part I always thought I should play."

MTV: "Will you see the new film?"

Jack Nicholson: "I'm not inclined to watch it because of what I said. But if it's a good movie, I'll catch up with it somewhere. I don't think they ever really captured Tim Burton's spirit [since he stopped being involved]. They kind of drove the franchise into the ground. Tim Burton's a genius. He had the right take on it. That's why I did the movie. I did the movie based on a single conversation with him. We both come from the cartoon world originally. We had similar ideas. Tim said [the Joker] should have a humorous dark side to him. [Burton is] one of the great moviemakers. I think the world of him. He's the most unassuming man. And he doesn't feel pressure. That's what I love about him. Once he's in there, he's smiling making the movie. That's it!"
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/15...furious-over-heath-ledger-playing-joker.jhtml

About his cryptic "I warned 'em" statement, Jack Nicholson explained, "I warn people about Ambien. I almost drove off a cliff once. I don't take sleeping pills but somebody said, 'Take this, it's mild'. I got a call in the middle of the night, kind of an emergency, and I almost drove off a cliff 50 yards from my house, and I live up in the mountains in Aspen (Colorado). So I warn people about it. But I also did not know Mr. Ledger."
http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/01/24/jack_nicholson_s_near_death_experience_w

Thanks a lot.

Yeah, I remember him clarifying his "I warned him" statement. And it's obvious he thought TDK was going to be a sequel to B89. No surprise, the whole world thought BB was a prequel to B89.


Btw, I'm just loving your posts about "the real" superhero.