The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

[Merlo]

If you can't see that Bruce Wayne is worse off than he was before, then there's nothing I can do.

I don't know how he is worse, he was already a damn killer before Batman Returns came along.

 

[BatSpider]

Why are BR and B89 so visually different?!

The action, the dialogue, picture, landscapes, everything. It looks as if B89 was made 20 years apart from Returns.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Anton Furst, production designer for Batman, was not brought back for Batman Returns.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Basically Tim Burton had no desire to do a conventional sequel or continuation...

Apart from the Batmobile everything was re-thought from the ground up. It's another ''chapter'' in Batman's career.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

Glad to see there is a lot of love for this movie. Nobody ever seems to like it as much of the original film and some ever hate it more than Batman Forever.

This has always been my favorite Batman film in the old series and I love it as much as the Nolan films. There are some things that bother me about the two Burton films. Like Gordon being a non-character. The Batman/Gordon dynamic is one of my favorite things about the comic and I would say Gordon is only a few small steps below Bats on the important scale. In the old films he's nothing more than a fat guy who calls Bats to clean stuff up.
And I do still yearn for a bit more onscreen meat for Bruce Wayne and his psychology but Returns is a great VISUAL representation of this, as some of pointed out in great detail.
But my overall love for this film helps me overlook these stuff, because it's just so damn good as a whole.

One of the main reasons people hate in this film is because it's a flat out Burton film. This is one of the reasons I love it more than the original film (which has aged horribly imo and I never liked it as much even as a kid) because it's a distinct directors vision of the material. This is movie is visually gorgeous. I love to look at it. One of the handful of comic book films that truly looks like a comic book come to life. A very black and brooding comic book, but a comic book none the less. Burtons gothic, dark fairytale attributes are a perfect match for Batman imo and Returns is the best example of this.

The film also has more emotional heft than the 89 film. Bruce state of mind is explored better here than in the original imo and Selena and even The Penguin add more nuance to the narrative. Selena is the heart of the film and her relationship with Bruce is a treat to watch. As repulsive as the Penguin is, there is still a smidgen of empathy there when he dies, good characterization there Burton. Good job.

And this still the one superhero movie to have THREE villains and have it work out in a balanced way. I can't believe no other superhero flick has been as successful as portraying multiple villains. Even TDK, the holy grail of superhero films, didn't handle it's TWO villains as well as Returns THREE. As much as I love TDK, I've always felt the last act was paced too fast and trying to play catch-up with itself. I wished Two-Face had a bit more time to develop.

And on a technical level, this film is just leaps and bounds better then the 89 film. It's smoother in look, pacing, action, editing and acting. Elfmans score is ever better. The Batman Returns score is my favorite piece by Elfman of all time and one of my favorite soundtracks ever.


People dismiss this film for it's freakish portrayal of the villains. I just simply don't see the issue. Catwoman is notorious for being one of the most tinkered with comic characters of all time. Why not have her be supernatural? People hate on the fact she was revived by cats with no explanation. But does it really need an explanation? The very base of this world is exaggerated in the extreme, mild supernatural events seem to fit right in. It's either something people will buy into or they wont.

And if Nolan can take liberties with his villains and receive almost unanimous praise why can't Burton? The Penguin is much more interesting here than he ever has been in the comics, imo. A character doesn't need to be blindly faithful to the source just for the sake of being blindly faithful to the source. This Penguin is perfect for this world. And even if he is gross and cruder, I still see The Penguin.


Batman Returns is a great, a misunderstood classic.

 

[Two-Face]

I love this movie but not much as Batman 89 not saying Returns is bad I just prefer Batman 89 instread. This had the best Bruce/Batman and Selina/Catwoman relationship it was perfect. I always thought they were meant to be together I just wonder what haopened if Burton done 3rd movie.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Freaky.

 

[Two-Face]

Amazing!

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I also felt disappointed that BR was so different than B89. It is a good movie but the narrative is flawed somehow. The story doesn't flow smoothly. And the ending with all the penguins could have been great but it felt underwhelming.

I still love Penguin and Catwoman.

Anyways, Burton said it, back in the day you couldn't plan in terms of trilogies, and producers and executives were all over you. You could make one movie at a time, which is why they used Joker right away.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Growing up with essentially both movies in the early 90's on video... the drastic shift in style never bothered me. I loved both and would pop one in depending on my mood.

However, I can understand people fuelled by hype and anxiously waiting for photos/trailers in 1991, being disappointed with the stark contrast. And even more so when the movie played out in theatres.

I do think the narrative is more compellling in Batman Returns purely for the monster movie and doomed loved aspects. It one great big tragedy.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Here's a VERY rare interview show with Terry Wogan (UK presenter at the time). We get great insights by Danny, Michelle, Michael and Tim...

[YT]e31Hvy0W5HU[/YT]

I love the way Michael describes getting lost in the suit. Plus I don't think Michelle really gets Wogan's sense of humour. t:

 

[Marx]

To this day, I still cannot believe that she actually had that bird in her mouth!

I always love seeing this old interviews!

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

To this day, I still cannot believe that she actually had that bird in her mouth!

Well... she's probably had alot worse in her mouth. But yeah, I always find that amazing.

Compared to Michelle nowadays she comes across as very guarded and dare I say, slightly cold, in interviews during this period. She had that reserved, somewhat stiff Hollywood glamour about her.

Now she's just so relaxed and open.

 

[Marx]

I think she was definitely guarded.

 

[Snow Queen]

I decided to give the movie another watch to see if I liked it more...can't say I did. The visuals are still gorgeous (particularly the snow), the production design in the interiors is awesome (the exterior felt too much like a soundstage to me though), Keaton's still a good Batman (not my kind of Batman but I enjoy his slasher villain-esque demeanor), Pfeiffer's not my kind of Catwoman but still really good with the Catwoman she's given (I just don't care for the insane Catwoman, I prefer the sane thief) and Walken's a lot of fun (when isn't he?).

As for what I didn't like, and I know a lot in this thread would disagree, I felt Penguin's plan fell apart towards the end, it's a case of style over substance, I still don't care for Keaton's Bruce Wayne, Batman as a killer (especially shoving the bomb in the guy's pants) bothers me still and I don't like this Penguin.

I feel the film would have been improved a little with a rumor I heard was planned, Shreck being Penguin's brother. Though, I feel that Shreck is the strongest villain in the movie. Make him the main villain, he's awesome.

Overall, a visually gorgeous film overall with a lot of great stylistic choices but I don't like Burton's takes on Batman as a killer, Penguin or Catwoman. I'd probably give it a 6/10. I can see what other people like in it but they aren't things I care for.

 

[Elevator Man]

Very stunning artwork.


I found a another Batman movie retrospective review this time for BR. It's by the same guy who did similar retrospective reviews for B89 and BF. This is nothing special, imo . He shares the same opinion that the general consensus share of BR (outside of BR fans). He doesn't add anything new to say about the movie, imo. And once again (like with B89 and BF) he ends it with "SuperHans" music from TDK this time.

[YT]I7IdZmz-VKw[/YT]

 

[sdabbs]

LOVE this movie, here are some more of my batman figures/sculpts that I continue to make

 

[Brain Damage]

Thats unbelievable.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Impressive.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Wonderful...

21 years of BATMAN RETURNS… released 19th June 1992!!

I destroyed my video watching it so many times as a kid and it’s almost completely responsible for my Michelle Pfeiffer love.

Give it a watch and celebrate folks!

 

[Brain Damage]

Happy birthday, old Batman movie favorite

 

[Dave McFly]

 

[Two-Face]

I always love that scene. So badass.

 

[Dave McFly]

[YT]X3M1IaZV7K4[/YT]

Returns suit up scene with the Selena footage removed (even tho I loved that she was trying to put her suit on while driving her Beetle while it was was shifting between her and Bruce's suit up montage ).