The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I loved the contrast between the two in that scene.

 

[Two-Face]

[YT]X3M1IaZV7K4[/YT]

Returns suit up scene with the Selena footage removed (even tho I loved that she was trying to put her suit on while driving her Beetle while it was was shifting between her and Bruce's suit up montage ).

You should have put Selina's transforming into Catwoman while she's driving That shows me that Batman/Bruce Catwoman/Selina are the same; they meant to be together.

 

[shauner111]

So because they put on costumes they're the same? In that universe there was no indication that they were meant to be together, at all. Bruce had one dance, one makeout session on his couch and suddenly they're made for each other?? They're soulmates?? Bruce wants her to move in with him? Ridiculous. Especially since she tried killing him.

If comics never existed and we all looked at the movie as an original creation, nobody would be coming up with forced ideas around here that Selina/Bruce are made for each other. Not going by what we see in the movie.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

No... your right. Bruce didn't drop everything and swan off with this Selina, so I guess they must not be well-suited, in love or made for each other.

This is a tragedy. Burton never wanted a happy ending, it doesn't mean he was presenting emotionally stiff characters. Just because you didn't see it in the movie, doesn't mean others didn't feel it.

 

[regwec]

It seems sad to me that Nolan must be justified by an attempt to un-see the virtues in alternative presentations of the characters and their stories.

 

[shauner111]

Im not talking about Nolan, it has nothing to do with Batman Returns. Neither does the comics when talking purely about these versions of Bruce and Selina.

so I guess they must not be well-suited, in love or made for each other.

In love or made for each other? In this version? No. Not even close.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

So because they put on costumes they're the same? In that universe there was no indication that they were meant to be together, at all. Bruce had one dance, one makeout session on his couch and suddenly they're made for each other?? They're soulmates?? Bruce wants her to move in with him? Ridiculous. Especially since she tried killing him.

Absurd. We all know that in order to fall in love you need months, maybe years. Specially if it's a wild romance with self-destructive hints where the characters are desperately trying to find a meaningful someone to try and create some sense in their lives.

And well, Bruce and Selina didn't go to the movies together, Bruce Wayne never gave her flowers and chocolates, so why inviting her to live together? It's not realistic!

If comics never existed and we all looked at the movie as an original creation, nobody would be coming up with forced ideas around here that Selina/Bruce are made for each other. Not going by what we see in the movie.

Absolutely! I don't even remember characters giving me speeches about it. How am I suppose to connect the dots? Imagination?

It seems sad to me that Nolan must be justified by an attempt to un-see the virtues in alternative presentations of the characters and their stories.

I don't think iot's about that because in TDKR Bruce and Selina had as little contact between them and yet they did go to live together to Italy!

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

In love or made for each other? In this version? No. Not even close.

Well I guess we watched two very different movies.

 

[Ponyboy]

So because they put on costumes they're the same?

They're soulmates??

Bruce wants her to move in with him? Ridiculous. Especially since she tried killing him.

I think you're being overtly glib. Bruce and Selina are the same because they both possess conflicted identities. The costumes are only the physical manifestation of that.

And nowhere did Burton or Bruce say that he and Selina were made for each other, or that they were soul mates. The one thing they had in common right from the start was a disdain for Shreck. After that it was clearly evident the animal laws of attraction took over.

Bruce offering for Selina to come home with him "together" at the end was him pleading with her not to kill Shreck. He was trying to tell her that it didn't have to be that way, she didn't have to make that choice. Read between the lines a bit next time you watch the film. t:

 

[shauner111]

I think you're being overtly glib. Bruce and Selina are the same because they both possess conflicted identities. The costumes are only the physical manifestation of that.

And nowhere did Burton or Bruce say that he and Selina were made for each other, or that they were soul mates. The one thing they had in common right from the start was a disdain for Shreck. After that it was clearly evident the animal laws of attraction took over.

Bruce offering for Selina to come home with him "together" at the end was him pleading with her not to kill Shreck. He was trying to tell her that it didn't have to be that way, she didn't have to make that choice. Read between the lines a bit next time you watch the film. t:

I never said that Burton said it, I was responding to a post that Two-Face made.

I read between the lines very well. Two-Face said they were meant to be together. The end proves that wasn't the case. I don't see how one lousy date and a dance where Selina and Bruce talk about how she wants to kill Shreck..means that Bruce and Selina are soulmates in that universe or that they should move in together. It was lust more than anything else. Bruce felt sorry for her in the same way that Vale felt sorry for Bruce. Bruce couldn't stand it so he tries to avoid Vikki until that ended. Same thing happens when Selina can't take living in his mansion like some vulnerable princess. That ends quickly too. All Selina ever tried to do was kill him intentionally and kill Max Shreck, hating all men. She didn't deserve Bruce's help and im glad it ends the way it does because they weren't meant to be together in that version.

Well I guess we watched two very different movies.

I guess we did.

 

[Morcego]

Awesome movie! I still can remember the day when I watched it in the movies with my dad and younger sister.
I love it as much as any of the Nolan movies!

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

What does soul mates even mean? Bruce and Selina certainly could help each other with the pain in a way Vicki Vale or some appendage couldn't.

 

[Ponyboy]

I read between the lines very well. Two-Face said they were meant to be together. The end proves that wasn't the case. I don't see how one lousy date and a dance where Selina and Bruce talk about how she wants to kill Shreck..means that Bruce and Selina are soulmates in that universe or that they should move in together. It was lust more than anything else. Bruce felt sorry for her in the same way that Vale felt sorry for Bruce. Bruce couldn't stand it so he tries to avoid Vikki until that ended. Same thing happens when Selina can't take living in his mansion like some vulnerable princess. That ends quickly too. All Selina ever tried to do was kill him intentionally and kill Max Shreck, hating all men. She didn't deserve Bruce's help and im glad it ends the way it does because they weren't meant to be together in that version.

I guess we did.

As I said, animal instincts took over. You could tell from the first time Bruce met Selina he was attracted to her. She was attracted to him. Men and women tend to have that problem with one another ya know. A lot of relationships begin with lust. No real shocker there.

I don't like the term soulmates. I think it's a bit ridiculous. How many people stay with the same "mate" their whole life? And even if you did, what does it mean to be a soulmate? Best friends can be soulmates. *shrugs*

Anyway, there's no indication in the film that Bruce ever felt "sorry" for Selina. That's a conclusion you must've come to because you either misunderstood the director/story's intent, or because you've formulated that yourself to back up the stance that Bruce and Selina never had a solid-enough-thing for them to care about one another.

Look, Bruce Wayne is a lonely & isolated guy (in Burton's world)... he's socially awkward to some degree. He finally finds someone like him that's tortured and conflicted... and they're naturally drawn to one another. That's not that hard to understand. A lot of people in the real world are attracted to one another for much lesser reasons.

All Selina ever tried to do was kill him? Yes... she tried to kill Batman. She didn't know Bruce was Batman until the end at Shreck ball... and clearly her behavior changed when they revealed their identities to one another. Selina just couldn't let go of the need to kill Shreck, despite Bruce's attempts to stop her.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

 

[regwec]

Love that composition- did you do it yourself?

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Love that composition- did you do it yourself?

Oh no... I wish I could draw like that.

I found it a while ago on tumblr, but for the life of me can't find it's source. I thought it was a very striking visual and wish we could have seen more stuff like this in the movie.

A rooftop chase would have been great but I suppose the bat-suit was too cumbersome.

 

[regwec]

It seems surprising that TDKR ducked that opportunity. A rooftop chase under the moonlight, with Catwoman using her acrobatics and Batman gliding like a Vampire in pursuit, would be stunning.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

It seems surprising that TDKR ducked that opportunity. A rooftop chase under the moonlight, with Catwoman using her acrobatics and Batman gliding like a Vampire in pursuit, would be stunning.

I imagine Nolan would have found something like that too frivolous.

 

[Ponyboy]

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I just saw Batman Returns after a long long time. It was much better than I remembered.

 

[ShaneHelms]

You should have put Selina's transforming into Catwoman while she's driving That shows me that Batman/Bruce Catwoman/Selina are the same; they meant to be together.

I never got that feeling from the suiting up sequence between the two. I always felt it was showing the contrast between the two of them. Bruce's organized and non chaotic suiting up that displayed his total devotion and preparation being Batman while Selina's unorganized and chaotic suiting up displayed her unprepared and struggle with being devoted to being Catwoman.

I think this is further touched on with her being humiliated by Batman and double crossed by Penguin because she hadn't devoted herself entirely to the double life and dealing with inner conflict over it and was merely breaking out of her uptight shell becoming Catwoman to strike back and enjoying herself being unchained from her previous lifestyle. Bruce being the polar opposite being deep into the abyss entirely of being Batman, which is shown early on with him sitting in solitude nearly lifeless until the bat-signal is shown springing him into life showing his his devotion of being Batman and that being the only thing he has.

The scene that showed me they were made for each other is when Bruce rips his cowl off and showing he is willing to leave Batman behind to attempt and have a normal life with Selina. But at this point Selina is trapped to deeply in the abyss of being Catwoman and absorbed with revenge that she would never be able to live with a normal life. A total reverse role for the characters but showing they are indeed the same though the tragedy is fate will never allow them to lead normal lives. Bruce will forever be Batman and Selina will be Catwoman.

That's just my take on it.

 

[Kane52630]

The Bat Signal - Batman Returns

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/54715827793/the-bat-signal-batman-returns-batman-returns

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Bruce, just sitting there without purpose, until the city calls him.

I just love how broken Burton's Batman was.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Bruce, just sitting there without purpose, until the city calls him.

I just love how broken Burton's Batman was.

It's like after the death of Joker, he had a lot of problems keeping being Batman. When the Penguin appeared he was almost anxious to find a criminal in him to fight.

 

[Brain Damage]

I just saw Batman Returns after a long long time. It was much better than I remembered.

Happy to hear that