The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 9

[Green Goblin]

That's bullying.



When he has his powers and can defend himself.



They're not buddy-buddy, they're just not enemies any more. This movie doesn't resort to the ridiculous of endless bullying for Peter, like say SM-3 does where we're asked to believe that even college students do it to him.



What's that got to do with having no friends?



How does that equate to them being friends just because Peter stood up for her? He stood up for the poor guy Flash was bullying earlier in the movie, too.

Were you personal friends with everyone you were polite to or worked with in school? You never see Peter and this girl interact beyond this scene.

You're making something out of nothing.



So?



Your logic leaves a lot to be desired.

All hail The Joker, his logic Regins supreme.

 

[Green Goblin]

At least say you didn't want to like TASM.

 

[S. Grundy]

I wanted to like it, I liked the casting. I just hated the characterization of Parker. He was this *****ey geek chic bad boy.

 

[Green Goblin]

I wanted to like it, I liked the casting. I just hated the characterization of Parker. He was this *****ey geek chic bad boy.

Read Ultimate Spider-Man...

 

[Senator Pleasury]

So and now why ASM is better than SM3?

It is not SM3. That's more than enough reason.

 

[Green Goblin]

Apparently now Maguire is a crying ***** and Garfield is a dick?
Maguire is the 616 early days Parker
Garfield is Brian Micheal Bendis Parker - He's not so much a nerd, just the smart guy who's shy in class. He's got that Hipster edge to him and has problems with his past being a mystery and has experienced pain throughout his life.

If I want to watch Stan Lee/Ditko era I watch the Rami films
If I want to watch Modern Era/Ultimate I watch the new series
Nuff' said.

 

[S. Grundy]

Well, ASM Parker is pretty much a *****e.

He breaks a promise to a dying man.
He treats Aunt May like crap after her husband is murdered.
He kinda acts like a sociopath when he's hunting down Uncle Ben's killer.
He screws over that Oscorp intern.

 

[Green Goblin]

Well, ASM Parker is pretty much a *****e.

He breaks a promise to a dying man. Read his Comic death
He treats Aunt May like crap after her husband is murdered. They argued as he went neaking off at night
He kinda acts like a sociopath when he's hunting down Uncle Ben's killer. Same in SM1, he killed his uncle, what would you do? Plus he let the killer live unlike Maguire.
He screws over that Oscorp intern. That was a funny scene and is nitpicking

I get the impression that you did not want to like the new spidey. Your logic is flawed as the last 2 were quite odd.

 

[S. Grundy]

I get the impression that you did not want to like the new spidey. Your logic is flawed as the last 2 were quite odd.

See, I thought his Spider-Man was pretty good, it's his Parker that I hated.

Read his Comic death

Captain Stacy's last words to Peter in the comic were, "Be good to her, son. Be good to her. She loves you very much." Not to leave Gwen out of his life.

They argued as he went sneaking off at night

Yes, his aunt shows concern for him staying out late and coming home bruised, and what does he do? Basically tells her to mind her own business.

Same in SM1, he killed his uncle, what would you do? Plus he let the killer live unlike Maguire.

As for Uncle Ben's killer, in S-M he confronts him but never gets to do anything to him, the carjacker trips and falls to his death, and with Sandman he was under the influence of the symbiote. In ASM he cruelly toys with the carjacker, and insinuates something worse would have happened if he had the tattoo. And then he attacks another guy, who wasn't doing anything illegal just looked like the thief, and just leaves hanging off a ledge, because it's not his problem he hasn't keeping up with his chin-ups.

That was a funny scene and is nitpicking

It may have been a funny scene, but still a *****ey thing to do to a stranger.

 

[Nardz937]

After several years i decided to watch the first two Spider-Man films,to see how i felt about them now,how i see them from my current perspective and point of view.

And boy,i love these movies with all my heart...they are so innocent,witty,so well edited and scripted i always end the second film with a huge smile on my face,which lasts about 30 seconds only to start my bewilderment of how they messed the third film so badly.I really like the first one despite a flaw here and a flaw there but I will spend some thoughts on the sequel.

Spider-Man 2 is the perfect sequel.It does all three major things that a sequel should marvelously:

1)It seamlessly continues the story
2)It expands it's world but most importantly,it expands it's characters,their ambitions,issues,desires...
3)It ends the story with just enough happiness and unresolved tension to work on it's own but leaves place for a spectacular finale(which,alas,didn't happen.)

In the first film,Spider-Man received a gift which turned into a burden,a responsibility he thought he understood and accepted.What the sequel smartly builds on and simultaneously questions along the way is whether a normal life is possible for someone who risks his life every day,someone who's a firefighter,a cop,a super soldier,a role model all at once.Would any individual accept such a life?Is there an amount of good deeds that are enough or is that responsibility for the rest of his life?Can there be a balance between personal happiness and the greater good?If seem from a neutral utilitarian perspective,would someone with such powers be seen as selfish if he would prefer to have a sweetheart,kids,a peaceful life?

The psychological torment Peter is having is juggled around wonderfully between his continuous sacrifice and his inability to be there for the love of his life,to have classes,to be what one would consider a normal young person.His guilt about his powers and what happened to his uncle have a quiet catharsis when he confesses his role to his Aunt.No act in either films is more brave and honest,creating Peter as someone not only with physical courage but moral one as well.

One of the best aspects of the script,is the care put into all the supporting characters that create this world.M.J is living her dream,lighting up Broadway,getting posters all over town but she's not very happy because fame and fortune are nothing without someone to share them with and the only person who has cared for her all along the way,mysteriously avoids her,sending mixed messages every time they see each other.She's presented as someone who doesn't let emotions ruin her life but follows her heart when it's the thing required.Her decision at the end of the film,brings the story into full circle from Peter chasing the bus,to her chasing him and making her decision be just as important as his,a love between two equals who are always gentle and tender to each other.

Aunt May is longing for her husband,all alone in the world but her fortitude is shown every step of the way,never putting her head down because of monetary issues,forgiving Peter and always being there when he needs an advice or a simple shoulder to rely on.

Harry has an interesting arc,convinced his father was killed by Spider-Man,he spends his life between continuing his father's legacy figuratively and literally.Once his sponsorship fails,killing Spider-Man is all he has left but who that is,is what makes him a tragic figure.His only friend,his only family...is the person that ruined his life.Revenge is on the cards.

Finally Doc Ock,who is a considerable improvement over the Goblin,a person who parallels Peter in following,chasing his dreams,but unlike him,someone who lets them devour everything he cared and worked for.A prideful person that could have changed the world had he been more patient and honest to a deluded criminal,he gets a honorable farewell at the end,sacrificing himself for those he worked for his entire life,those he hoped ton help better their lives,the common people.

The humor in the film is abundant,with J.J.Jameson on the front line equipped with a dozen sarcastic lines ready for delivery.''Caviar? Who are we inviting, the czar?'' is one the many laugh out loud moments,that are always natural,in the spirit of the situation and not as mere comic relief and unnecessary banter.The homage to comic book fans was also subtly added to the story from the Dr. Strange reference,to Mr Ditkovich to Peter's comic books thrown in the garbage can...''those dreadful things'' as Aunt May called them.

The action sequences are amazing,the train fight,endlessly emulated but never improved remains the best action scene of any comic book film,showing computer wizardry when used well can only add to a great story,not make a great story.Saving the train in spectacular fashion,the reaction of the passengers is one of the most impactfull scenes and touches the essence of Spider-Man...he is just a kid with a tremendous powers which he uses to help everyday people without any price or benefit but simply because he is following the example his Aunt and Uncle left him.

Even though it's a sequel,it doesn't feel big,it's very intimate,very poignant,we're spending time with genuine characters not action heroes produced in a computer.It's a film made with great care about them,never sidestepping their lives for needless thrills or explosions.Most of the firework comes from the interaction and the deep emotions between the characters,their words and their choices rather than CGI theatrics.

Good post, bud.

Spider-Man 2 is an amazing movie. The second greatest superhero movie ever made, behind Dark Knight in my opinion. Though, I personally have a little more love for Spidey 2 in my heart than Dark Knight.

 

[sontin]

It goes to show Ben Parker is a man who believes in Power and Responsibility.

Woot? He tried to play the hero without "Power and Responsibility". He failed. That changed the whole origin of Spider-Man.

Peter walked away when he could have helped stop the thief. Ben saw someone committing a crime, about to run past him, and stepped up to do something about it, because in that moment, he had the power to do so. You say it's dumb, I would say it was brave.

It is not brave. Really it's dumb and stupid. It would be brave if he had called the police and identified the guy.
And which power had Ben? Was he stronger? No. Was he faster? No.

 

[S. Grundy]

The guy tripped and fell, and his gun slide in front of Ben.

 

[Green Goblin]

I guess then Peter in the Rami series is a d*** then too? He didn't tell his aunt that he was responsible and led her to believe it was her doing for two years? In SM2 he was fixing his bike and the wheel came off and it someone, that was finny but that came of a *****y. He adandoned his responsibility and let some dude get beat up. Please go to sleep aunt may is not being a *****e, he wanted to keep her out of trouble. Spider-Man is supposed to be an ******* that's why he toyed with the thief, it's just he was pissed and wanted revenge. Lol Gwen wanted to break the promise and Peter didn't want to initially, did Peter in SM2 choose to be with the girl?

 

[Green Goblin]

Woot? He tried to play the hero without "Power and Responsibility". He failed. That changed the whole origin of Spider-Man.

It is not brave. Really it's dumb and stupid. It would be brave if he had called the police and identified the guy.
And which power had Ben? Was he stronger? No. Was he faster? No.

So... The moral is to give the responsibility to the police and let the thief get away? Ben would be doing the same thing Peter did. By that logic Ben himself wouldn't have understood responsibility. Peter wouldn't stop him, his Uncle wouldn't stop him neither would have showed responsibility.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

And all of a sudden SM3 gets fans...

I've always enjoyed SM3, despite being a flawed movie, it's pretty solid. The fanboy hyperbole is over the top and not worth getting upset over.

 

[Green Goblin]

Back to Rami Spidey... I ask can SM2 be topped?

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I've always enjoyed SM3, despite being a flawed movie, it's pretty solid. The fanboy hyperbole is over the top and not worth getting upset over.

I see you are fluent in the arts of hyperbole.

So... The moral is to give the responsibility to the police and let the thief get away? Ben would be doing the same thing Peter did. By that logic Ben himself wouldn't have understood responsibility. Peter wouldn't stop him, his Uncle wouldn't stop him neither would have showed responsibility.

Give the responsibility to someone else...

Wait a sec! Wasn't that exactly what Peter did when he let the thug escape at the TV studios and told the security guard that it was HIM who should have caught the guy? Which is exactly what Uncle Ben did not and what Peter had to learn out of it?

Webb gave us an Uncle Ben who knew better.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I see you are fluent in the arts of hyperbole.

Yeah, cause I said its the greatest movie ever and it has no flaws and has done no wrong.

You are obviously fluent in the arts of trying to start an argument, so there's that.

 

[henzINNIT]

For every good story decision that was made in Spider-Man 2 and it had plenty,Spider-Man 3 had as many that went terribly wrong.

First of all,the Uncle Ben retcon is such a ridiculous,unnecessary move,everyone,from the person who wrote it to Raimi should be ashamed of themselves.It basically undermined all the responsibility Peter had on his shoulders for the duration of the first two films.

Peter still failed to intervene in the robbery that led to his father figure's death. Marko being the trigger man doesn't nullify this, though it does make things needlessly convoluted.

I've warmed to this retcon over time. Raimi clearly wanted to position Peter as spiritually close to Harry as possible and it works in that regard. Goblin Jr has become warped by his need to avenge his father, and SM3 gives Peter the chance to experience the same temptation. Harry's redemption has a profound effect on Peter in the end. Peter is able to forgive Marko for his sins because he saw Harry do something very similar first.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Read Ultimate Spider-Man...

Sorry, but Peter in Ultimate Spider-Man is nothing like Peter in TASM.

They're both teenagers I guess...? Otherwise, Peter in Ultimate is much closer to the Tobey Maguire version.

 

[Human Torch]

Back to Rami Spidey... I ask can SM2 be topped?

I say yes.SM 3 did so,quite well.


(Cue the usual suspects with flame-throwers.)

 

[The Joker]

I say yes.SM 3 did so,quite well.

 

[S. Grundy]

In SM2 he was fixing his bike and the wheel came off and it someone, that was finny but that came of a *****y.

There's a clear difference between an accident and screwing someone over.

He adandoned his responsibility and let some dude get beat up.

Which was the point of "Spider-Man No More!" You kinda have to show the consequences of Peter's choice of giving up being Spider-Man. And then later on he runs into a burning building (minus any super powers) to save a child.

Spider-Man is supposed to be an ******* that's why he toyed with the thief, it's just he was pissed and wanted revenge.

There's a fine line between being an ass and being a sociopath, needlessly suffocating someone (yes even a criminal) and telling him things could have gone much worse if he had the tattoo (implying murder). Not to mention he left a guy hanging off of a ledge, who wasn't even doing anything illegal. He kinda comes off a bit unbalanced.

Lol Gwen wanted to break the promise and Peter didn't want to initially, did Peter in SM2 choose to be with the girl?

It was Peter's choice to not pursue MJ romantically, and S-M 2 happened and MJ made the choice to be with Peter and he accepted it.

ASM, he makes a promise to a dying man, and then breaks it.

 

[sontin]

So... The moral is to give the responsibility to the police and let the thief get away? Ben would be doing the same thing Peter did. By that logic Ben himself wouldn't have understood responsibility. Peter wouldn't stop him, his Uncle wouldn't stop him neither would have showed responsibility.

"With great power comes great responsibility", Spider-Man is not the Kick-Ass movie.
Ben had no powers to stop him.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I say yes.SM 3 did so,quite well.


(Cue the usual suspects with flame-throwers.)