The Dark Knight The Official Katie Holmes/Rachel Dawes Thread!!

[The Kid]

Don't let some tabloid crap get in the way. Katie is a professional and will deliver yet another great performance. I can't wait.

 

[Timstuff]

There is nowhere left for Bruce and Rachel to go. It's time for Batsy to find someone who's more compatible with his mission.

 

[TheVileOne]

Holmes performance was not exceptional. She was the weakest performer in the entire movie.

 

[7Hells]

Doesnt matter who she is up against. If she isnt good enough she isnt good enough. Performing with such great actors should have been an advantage anyway.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm sure you would be too if you were up against Bale, Caine, Oldman, Freeman, Neeson, etc.

She only played opposite Bale and Murphy really. She didn't step it up and hold her own.

To her credit, Rachel Dawes was a weak as hell and cookie cutter character.

 

[7Hells]

To her credit, Rachel Dawes was a weak as hell and cookie cutter character.

True, which is why, I hope we dont see much of her in TDK.

 

[StorminNorman]

I don't see how Rachel was weak. I mean she was actual a bigger hero in Batman Begins than Batman was - after all she helped stop crime legally. She put herself in danger for others, just as Batman did, just with out the training or advantages that Batman has.

 

[KalMart]

I think Holmes did a serviceable job, and the Dawes character was a nice moral checkpoint for Wayne, in addition to Alfred. Also provided a tie to his early childhood....nicer, more innocent times. But I think the next film would survive just fine without her.

 

[7Hells]

I don't see how Rachel was weak.

Im not sure how thevileone meant it but I meant "weak" as in the way her character is written. Dawes' character is just the new norm stereotype for "strong" women. Its one dimensional and tired.

I think Holmes did a serviceable job, and the Dawes character was a nice moral checkpoint for Wayne, in additoin to Alfred.

I agree, her character was needed to push Bruce into making the right choice. It was evident the character was created by Nolan as a time saver for Bruces' moral dilema and is no longer needed.

 

[Iceman]

I'm grateful Holmes didn't ruin Batman Begins. It wasn't the greatest role but she was the one member of the unbelievable cast that I had worries over. She was in fact better than I expected but I don't think the character needs to be explored more fully in Dark Knight. It's time for a new woman in Wayne's life even if Dawes remains as a background character.

 

[KalMart]

I'm grateful Holmes didn't ruin Batman Begins. It wasn't the greatest role but she was the one member of the unbelievable cast that I had worries over. She was in fact better than I expected but I don't think the character needs to be explored more fully in Dark Knight. It's time for a new woman in Wayne's life even if Dawes remains as a background character.

But what I liked was that she really wasn't a true love interest until the end...and then she still wasn't. I think her importance as a character was more in the realm of morality and footing for Bruce....and that was refreshing because she could've easily just been a 'love interest', more of a plot device than a character. That said, Wayne did 'come home', per se, by the end of the film and realized the importance of what he stood for...not only to himself, but those close to him, past and present. Mission accomplished...so we don't really need her from here on in.

 

[Iceman]

But what I liked was that she really wasn't a true love interest until the end...and then she still wasn't. I think her importance as a character was more in the realm of morality and footing for Bruce....and that was refreshing because she could've easily just been a 'love interest', more of a plot device than a character. That said, Wayne did 'come home', per se, by the end of the film and realized the importance of what he stood for...not only to himself, but those close to him, past and present. Mission accomplished...so we don't really need her from here on in.

Yeah I did like that she wasn't really a love interest and she does seem to have served her purpose in the first film. Holmes has achieved her mission of appearing in a Batman film without ruining it which is no easy achievement. Kudos to her for that and now maybe she should quit while she is ahead (unless she returns as a background character).

 

[KalMart]

Yeah I did like that she wasn't really a love interest and she does seem to have served her purpose in the first film. Holmes has achieved her mission of appearing in a Batman film without ruining it which is no easy achievement. Kudos to her for that and now maybe she should quit while she is ahead (unless she returns as a background character).

Tom-Tom won't let her out of the house without him, so I think we're safe.

 

[7Hells]

Kudos to her for that and now maybe she should quit while she is ahead (unless she returns as a background character).

I agree, I only want her in TDK for continuity.

 

[KalMart]

I agree, I only want her in TDK for continuity.

She got a job in DC (the Capitol, not the comic )...so she's gone.

 

[The Kid]

Holmes performance was not exceptional. She was the weakest performer in the entire movie.

Shut it, Vile.

You're just mad because she was better than dunst.

 

[KalMart]

Shut it, Vile.

You're just mad because she was better than dunst.

How many different men, over the course of the three films, will Mary Jane have been with after all's said and done? If I were Parker, I'd at least ask her to rinse before kissing her at the snd of Spidey 2, no?

 

[7Hells]

She got a job in DC (the Capitol, not the comic )...so she's gone.

We can only hope

 

[Iceman]

Tom-Tom won't let her out of the house without him, so I think we're safe.

As long as that doesn't lead to him trying to get a role in DK.

I agree, I only want her in TDK for continuity.

She's done her duty well. Time to relax and appreciate the fruits of (ot)her('s) efforts t:

 

[metkalfe]

Katie's pretty solid to me and as a woman Im drawn to Rachel.
Its a turn off to see some guys bully Katie/Rachel. (pick your own size guys).

Rachel has a lot of integrity and brings balance and light amidst the darkness. She takes no crap from Bruce and keeps him on his toes,she wasn't just the typical helpless woman or generic gf. She and Bruce truly loves Gotham while she fights crime on the court, Batman on the streets.
She also represents the middle working class many of us can identify.
There's a realness to her because she's not the stereotype babe-orama
the past Batfilms did.

Its refreshing for a change to see strong friendships and relationship while dropping the facade and having honest conversations. Bruce and Rachel did that and have the obvious connection. Nowadays and even on TV and movies people hook up for the wrong reasons but they go beyond that and have a deep history together. Plus its so intriguing because it deals with the ideals of fate. Their message and relationship hits home to me because many do consider their girlfriend or even wives or bf and hubbies as best friends. Im even about to marry my high school sweetheart.

We'll see how creative TPTB with the characters and backburner romance.

 

[Crooklyn]

The concept of Rachel was good (like you said, a light amidst the darkness), but ultimately she did fall into the typical helpless damsel. After the flashbacks with Bruce and Rachel, which I admit were good, the character went downhill from then on. The rest of the film, all her actions really just set her up to be captured and rescued by the hero. If they tried to make a totally different female character, imo they failed.

At the end of the film, it's been established Rachel helped Bruce become the man he is. But it also established the fact that Rachel isn't needed anymore. Batman has found his "light".....thanks for the help, bye Rachel.

 

[metkalfe]

You're right about the damsel in distress part but remember Batman is still in the hands of male writers so no way Rachel can upstage Batman in the hero dept. She did good though carrying a taser on that train doing her best to fight those two guys and Scarecrow in the end.
The previous Bat women and other superhero ladies are a pale shadow of Dawes. She just feels absolutely real to me, and her romance with Bruce is not pretty,its not Disney but its the real world.

If they go with Catwoman or Talia the whole villain falls in love with the hero is so played out. We have seen that with Daredevil-Electra and so many times in television and the movies. Or the whole arc of hero falls for the Mafia daughter same ole same ole. As a woman I dont feel empowered depicted as a bad guy.

 

[Crooklyn]

You're right about the damsel in distress part but remember Batman is still in the hands of male writers so no way Rachel can upstage Batman in the hero dept.

Rightfully so, but I think there could've been ways to showcase Rachel. Falling into the hands of a villain and relying on the hero is too cliche at this point.

The previous Bat women and other superhero ladies are a pale shadow of Dawes.

Eh.....I think Pheiffer as Selina, absolutely murdered every aspect of Holmes' character, lol. In fact, imo she's really the only female character of any comic book film that I felt didn't fail in making an empowering female. She held her own in that movie.

If they go with Catwoman or Talia the whole villain falls in love with the hero is so played out. We have seen that with Daredevil-Electra and so many times in television and the movies. Or the whole arc of hero falls for the Mafia daughter same ole same ole.

Don't really get your point here. There's only so many ways to connect 2 people in a relationship. It's how the relationship is handled, that will set it apart from hackneyed interpretations of the past.

To bring up Selina again, in BR, I think her relationship with Bruce was beautifully done. Take the ballroom scene, where both figure out they're sworn enemies in their alter ego, Selina begins to cry and say, "Does this mean we have to fight again?" Perfectly executed.

 

[metkalfe]

To each his own you like Catwoman while I prefer Rachel Dawes. That's another reason some Batman fans hate Rachel because she's not from the comics. Totally uncalled for. Actually Im a Lois Lane fan but the SR Lois didnt pull me in and Margot Kidder Lois Lane my only favorite of hers was Superman 1 and 2 the rest were forgettable.

I tried to like MJ of Spiderman but she appears cheap to me how she easily falls for Harry then that Air Force pilot. The X-Men women were spotty to me because it was a jammed pack movie. Electra just met Daredevil and she immediately hot bunked with him and I cant relate to Selina being a socialite and a thief.

Lunch time at work I ask this group[they're Lost fans] and they lunch together to discuss the episodes and I tease them as pathetic but then again Im pathetic for being obsessing about Batman too. They told me they prefer Dawes than bringing back Catwoman.

My friend Barbara also loves Dawes because her mom was a housekeeper for the Embassador to Kuwait, she studied hard and worked her way up and now she's among the youngest VP's of Paramount Pictures.
She even wrote 2 eps for NBC's ED before becoming a VP in Marketing.
We also feel Rachel is simple and just so regular not the shallow type.

But hate it or not I visit other boards and Rachel-Katie seems to dominate the discussions so she also adds hype and buzz to this sequel making it watercooler TDK.

 

[7Hells]

Crooklyn dont even bother.
These people arent Batman fans they are just katie holmes fans.