The Dark Knight Rises The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 1

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I think fan community on SHH is lot more expert in judging a movie than most critics, they are not easily pleased and I am not talking about faith fullness to comics or action scenes, most posters here seem to know much more about things like movie structure, flow, narrative and symbolism. It is amazing.
 
The Dark Knight Rises is a good film. I feel I should get that out of the way before I start talking in any greater detail. However, I think it’s the weakest of the trilogy and I really wish I could see the epic masterpiece that so many others seem to have experienced. My thoughts are going to be a bit disorganised I fear but I’ll do my best to keep things coherent.

There are obviously things which I liked, a few I’ll go into now but my overall experience was that I liked most elements but only to a certain extent, then the film loses me. I really enjoyed the more comic inspired elements: I love that Bane can have a secret sewer base and have a fight with Batman where he actually breaks Batman. I love that Catwoman wears a costume just because, I love that Batman can spend half the time flying around in a crazy super plane (although the design is a bit bland) and that he invents clean energy machines that turn into nuclear bombs. It felt like many comic book elements were being embraced and I was very happy to see it.

My big problems come down to scope, I think. The reason this film is weaker than Batman Begins or The Dark Knight is that they had a more narrow scope which meant that things were explored to a greater, more satisfying degree. This film feels like it has been blown up to such proportions on a textual level that nothing really coheres that well or at all on a sub textual level. The reason this is an issue is because the lack of unity on the issues the film raises undermines the story told on the surface. If the film was only concerned with reinventing oneself then the film would be much stronger as that rising stuff is the most consistent and well executed aspect of the film. All the other elements though are underdeveloped, which is incredible given the run time.

The biggest example of this is the theme of class warfare which lacks any real exploration. Tom Hardy’s Bane is fairly charismatic for the most part and his constant presence helps maintain interest in the rest of the film. However, we are never given any insight into how Gotham operates before Bane or during or after. Given that characters keep raising the issues of class inequality, the film is woefully deficient in dealing with that. One of my favourite scenes was Bane’s address to Gotham outside Blackgate but the rhetoric is completely empty, Bane doesn’t mean it and the audience can’t think about it too much either because we have no sense of Gotham ‘s mood or personality. We just get told things about it continuously. Thus, the speech is just a plot point, not an interesting statement.

The same goes for the Dent act which is implied to be the origin of the overreach of Gotham’s police authority but we don’t know anything about it or ever see it executed. The theme seems mirrored in Bruce’s denial of clean energy to the world due to his own personal distrust of society. Again, a theme is raised but nothing is actually said about it, it just becomes a plot point that eventually peters out.

As to the villains, Bane and Talia’s plan is undermined by the fact that Gotham is nowhere near the cesspit it was in the previous films, it’s shown to be peacetime and a fairly nice place. This makes everything they say hollow, the destiny of Ra’s Al Ghul is meaningless as is the concept of Gotham’s reckoning. It becomes less about Batman vs Gotham, which the film would like the film to be and simply about Batman vs Bane. Furthermore, Talia’s reveal is unimpressive as she is in too few scenes and has no real impact on the plot at all, narratively the plot twist is empty because removing it wouldn’t alter the plot at all.

Another character that seems pointless is Catwoman. Hathaway’s performance is fine but the character is written with relatively broad strokes and the performed in the same way. I imagine that she was supposed to reflect the individual who is imprisoned by class inequality and that may find some resolution at the end but that doesn’t really happen. She’s in a relationship with Bruce which comes out of nowhere and undermines her own ability to change her position in life.

I was also annoyed that Nolan decided to have his cake and eat it too by playing half the ending as a tragedy, pushing the audience into sorrow by playing these big emotional gestures such as Alfred at the Wayne’s graves but then chooses to play an uplifting happy ending by having Bruce alive and well. Why exactly did Bruce suggest that he was going to give Gotham everything if he never intended to do so, he didn’t give his life or his time after that day. Weird.

This sounds very negative, but I do think the film is good. I just don’t think it’s as solid as the others and seems hopelessly muddled at times. There are lots of good things here and they outweigh the bad but I can’t bring myself to rave about the film. I will end on the positive note that Bale and Caine both bring their A game with brilliant performances, Hardy and Oldman also. The strength of their performances really elevated some of their material at parts.
 
I for one loved this movie after all the Avengers/Spider-Man vs TDKR I can honestly say we have had a great summer for superhero movies.

Now it had its problems, there were a few plotholes and weak moments and I didn't care too much for the ending. But all in all i enjoyed it. I think I need to see it again to see where I place it in the trilogy but right now i would say a 7.5/8 out of 10
 
Some people should cool off with the TDK obsession for a while. Just because that was a very good movie, it means that TDKR is a piece of crap?

Sorry, don't buy that. And no, not only Ledger made TDK what it was. :whatever:

I have to agree with you. As a Marvel/Thor fanboy-geek I went into this movie (after seeing so many critical rants on this board) fully expecting to be able to say that it didn’t come close to my beloved Avengers. Boy oh boy was I wrong! This movie grabbed me and had me from the moment I sat down to the moment they turned the lights on……such an incredible gift to the Batman fans from Nolan.
Speaking of Nolan I almost feel sorry for him, he has some of the most over zealous and over critical fans I’ve ever seen! His problem is, he’s been putting out so many excellent movies these perfectionist expect that he can do no wrong. Well wake up guys….he’s making a comic book movie……his main intent is to help us escape for 2 plus hrs and enjoy his passion…..my god do you have to analyze every detail of every minute of the movie…..or just go get lost in it and enjoy one heck of a fun movie.
I may be in the minority but I think it was the best of the three and the first Batman movie I will ever buy. WOM will help it at the BO and it will be a financial success 10x over for WB. We were lucky this summer to have three fun superhero flix.
I give it a 9/10 (just like I gave the Avengers)….Spidey gets 7.5/10.
 
This was a great film. Fanboys will never be satisfied. Way better than the slow film that was Batman Begins, and on par if not better in some ways with the TDK.

TDK had great elements, BB and good elements, TDKR had great elements, period.
 
In your opinion.

As for fanboys never being satisfied, I havent read a Batman comic book since the early90s. Do I love this character, absolutely, but I dont consider myself a "fanboy"as I have been pretty much out of the comic book reading business for some time.

Want I want from my films - first and foremost is a good movie - with a intelligent coherant involving and creative story that respectfully adapts the source material.

The intelligent, coherant, and creative parts are missing from TDKR. Replaced with scale laziness and contrivance that defies logic, with no consequence or thought put into the results, motivations or actions of the characters.
 
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No need to be condescending, jerk. Let people be.

TDKR = BEST FILM I HAVE EVER SEEN!!! Leaps & bounds above TDK as the best in the trilogy.

I don't think he was being a condescending jerk - its his opinion.
At the end of the day, people will either be ok with the plot holes and story lines in this or they wont, I for one am ok with those in some comic book movies, just not this one, because I also expected more from Nolan.
 
^ Uh...I've been pretty clear in saying why I dont like this film. Many of us have been, yet people come here saying if people dont like this theyre confused bitter nitpicking fanboys.

Youre being the jerk for calling me out as a jerk, when EVERYTHING in these threads is personal opinion.

I was simply reminding people of that.
 
Okay, calm down boys and girls lol.

I understand the gripes about this film, but I will say that this film was creative, imaginative, and well put together. Sure some things could be explained better and the pacing and flow could have been better and less choppy at times, but I'm sure that taking a 4 hour film down to an almost 3 hour film is tough work.

That said, this movie didn't need character development as much as people said, especially with the established characters. They have been established in the first two films. I think everyone had a nice amount of screen time to support their characters and no character felt cheated.

The story worked, the actors spot on, and the movie kept the audience engaged for as long as it was.

"Want I want from my films - first and foremost is a good movie - with a intelligent coherant involving and creative story that respectfully adapts the source material.

The intelligent, coherant, and creative parts are missing from TDKR. Replaced with scale laziness and contrivance that defies logic, with no consequence or thought put into the results, motivations or actions of the characters."


1. The movie was undoubtedly good.

2. How was the movie not coherent, involving, and creative?

3. I have learned to give up on films that should "adapt the source material." Movies will never be 100% true to the source and still be able to entertain the masses and fans. Movies are made to be the relevant adaptations with the personal touch of the creator. Comic writers do this, so it's no unheard of or wrong for the movie writers to do it too.

4. In what way was the film "scale laziness" and how did it defy logic? Batman defies logic all the time, that's what makes him Batman.

Maybe you should pick up a Batman comic or check out a Batman cartoon.
 
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Imagine that Nolan would've given you:

More character development = "Dis movie is teh boring evah"
Selina with more screentime = "Where is da Batmen?"

Just two examples.
 
TDKR is my favourite of the trilogy, warts and all.

I've seen 4 movies this year that I've absolutely love (blu ray purchases for Prometheus, Avengers, ASM and TDKR) and I have problems with all 4 movies.
 
TDKR is my favourite of the trilogy, warts and all.

I've seen 4 movies this year that I've absolutely love (blu ray purchases for Prometheus, Avengers, ASM and TDKR) and I have problems with all 4 movies.

No movie is flawless.
 
I've watched TDKR twice and like most, I found it better on the second viewing.

However, although I loved the first 2 films in the trilogy but I found TDKR to be very disappointing.


I couldn't understand why I didn't enjoy it at first but I do now. In TDKR, we do not witness the full consequences of a character's decision. The plot moves so fast with new elements/characters that decisions are mere plot points rather than devices for character development.

These are a few points off the top of my head. I didn't enjoy TDKR but I firmly believe that TDKR has elements of a great movie but needs to be split into 2 parts (ala Harry Potter) or needed to be a much longer movie with an Intermission (which is less likely given industry standards).

Rating: 6 out of 10
 
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I'd give it a 7.5/10.

Thought the movie was good but not great. Definitely was a satisfying conclusion to an overall very good trilogy. It seems like the type of movie I'd enjoy more on a second viewing. Bale did his best jobyet as Bruce/Batman. Had my reservations on Hathaway prior to the movie but she was great. Bane was good. Talia was kind of Ehh to me. Overall I'd rank the trilogy as 1) TDK 2) TDKR 3) BB

Really enjoyed all the superhero movies this summer. Glad that they all felt different from one another. Each one had their flaws but overall were very good.
 
I for one loved this movie after all the Avengers/Spider-Man vs TDKR I can honestly say we have had a great summer for superhero movies.

Now it had its problems, there were a few plotholes and weak moments and I didn't care too much for the ending. But all in all i enjoyed it. I think I need to see it again to see where I place it in the trilogy but right now i would say a 7.5/8 out of 10

Yep i think i am in the same boat as you i need to see it again to really make my final judgement. At first i hated it i wanted to give it a 6/10 then when i wrote my review i gave it 7 but now i feel like it's 7.5 and think once i see it again i might change it to a 8
 
^ Uh...I've been pretty clear in saying why I dont like this film. Many of us have been, yet people come here saying if people dont like this theyre confused bitter nitpicking fanboys.

When a poster complains about not explicity seeing Bruce travel from India back to Gotham? That's nitpicking.

And there's been a lot of it on these boards.
 
Of course Batman films defy real world reality. Theyre comic book movies.

But that doesntmean they defy "logic"... theres a difference. Im going to be brief here, as I feel like Ive had everything I have to say about this and Im talking in circles. People dont want to talk about the different viewpoints here. They want everyone to share their own opinion or label others as bitter fanboys trolls and nitpickers.

Batman Begins - Bruce Wayne needs something that allows him to glide or be able to jump from rooftop to rooftop without killing himself. Lucious introduces him to a fabric you can customize and run a current through and utilize. Thats great. It provides a logical function, is believeable as to why Batman would use a cape, how he can glide, etc.

We see him place his surveillience equiptment in the "ears" of his cowl. Makes sense and is shown to be practical and logical. Batman can eavesdrop, do surveillience, etc.I love it.

At the end of TDKR Batman bails out of The Bat to avoid a nuclear explosion. There were how many seconds left of the device? Anyway.The Bat is recovered from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION and guys are messing around with it no consideration for raditation poisoning, as we're told that 6 months ago Bruce Wayne loaded a patch that fixed the auto pilot.

Except that the previous 2 films CLEARLY explain that Lucious Fox is the technical wizard behind Batman. So now Bruce Wayne can program and fix a problem that evaded Lucious and all his experience. When Lucious explained how he provided a antidote for Scarcrwos toxin, Bruce didnt even understand what he was saying. THIS BAatman is no the expert at everything the comic book version is. Lucious is the technical mastermind behind the Batman persona. Its a plot contivance with no thought put into how it is feasible or even possible. It defies the films own logic. The film once again, has ignored the reality that has been provided to us by the previous films.

That one brief quick example.



Im gonna go watch the RedLetterMedia reviews of the Star Wars prequels. Theyre always good for a laugh. Another nitpicker who actually wants his movies, even fantasy ones, to actually make sense.
 
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The Bat is recovered from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION and guys are messing around with it no consideration for raditation poisoning, as we're told that 6 months ago Bruce Wayne loaded a patch that fixed the auto pilot.
There are two "Bats" in the film. The one at the end was the prototype.
 
okay, calm down boys and girls lol.

I understand the gripes about this film, but i will say that this film was creative, imaginative, and well put together. Sure some things could be explained better and the pacing and flow could have been better and less choppy at times, but i'm sure that taking a 4 hour film down to an almost 3 hour film is tough work.

That said, this movie didn't need character development as much as people said, especially with the established characters. They have been established in the first two films. I think everyone had a nice amount of screen time to support their characters and no character felt cheated.

The story worked, the actors spot on, and the movie kept the audience engaged for as long as it was.

"want i want from my films - first and foremost is a good movie - with a intelligent coherant involving and creative story that respectfully adapts the source material.

The intelligent, coherant, and creative parts are missing from tdkr. Replaced with scale laziness and contrivance that defies logic, with no consequence or thought put into the results, motivations or actions of the characters."


1. The movie was undoubtedly good.

2. How was the movie not coherent, involving, and creative?

3. I have learned to give up on films that should "adapt the source material." movies will never be 100% true to the source and still be able to entertain the masses and fans. Movies are made to be the relevant adaptations with the personal touch of the creator. Comic writers do this, so it's no unheard of or wrong for the movie writers to do it too.

4. In what way was the film "scale laziness" and how did it defy logic? Batman defies logic all the time, that's what makes him batman.

Maybe you should pick up a batman comic or check out a batman cartoon.

ditto!!!
 
I feel this movie would have been alot better if they'd left out the whole part about Bruce being retired for 8 years, and the leg injury and all. To me it takes away from the recovery he has to make in the prison. I think Batman still doing work behind the scenes, but still thought of as a criminal makes more sense. Plus it makes no sense that he'd be retired since Harvey Dent's death, but he goes and reconstructs the Bat Cave and all his arsenal.
 
Didn't anyone find it illogical that Bruce Wayne recovers from a serious back injury (apparently a vertebra is sticking out of his skin) by standing with a rope and doing push-ups?
 
Dark Knight Rises
Dark Knight
Batman Begins


Loved all of them and together they make the (for me at least) perfect movie trilogy. Loved TDKR the most, after 2 viewings. Will go for a third time tuesday and more to come after that.

I liked it more than the other two, just because it was so much more emotional for me personally. Watching Begins, I had goosebumps. Watching Dark Knight, I was mesmerized by the plot and the back and forth between Joker and Batman. I even bought that Gordon died and was tearing up. But none of that compares to me watching Rises. In Rises I feared for everyone involved. It was easily the movie that most affected me in my whole life. Sure, there are maybe better movies out there, but since my connection to the characters is so deep because of me being a fan for more than 20 years, I was never this moved by any movie ever. I squirmed in my seat while the Bane fight was going on, felt great excitement at Batman return and his rise, had to cry at every Alfred/Bruce scene and at the ending and feared for every character, all the time. I really thought that every scene with so and so could be the last we would see of him/her. I was really scared of Bane, more scared than I ever was by any movie villain. The fight scenes were the best of the trilogy, Batman was the most badass in all three movies here, utilizing more ninja tactics and gadgets as ever before and I didn't even talked about the ending. Oh, the ending. Sadness, happiness and tears streaming down my face. Even if upon repeated viewings Dark Knight should be the better crafted movie, or better plotted or whatever... Rises will forever be my favorite Batman movie, because of the emotions it made me feel. I don't care about so called "plotholes", because any movie has those. For me Rises was the best time I had at the movies ever. I went in with such high expectations, after waiting for the movie since 4 years (in some ways my whole life) and it still topped my imagination. For me and the people I have seen it with (sister, girlfriend), clearly the best of the three.
 
At the end of TDKR Batman bails out of The Bat to avoid a nuclear explosion. There were how many seconds left of the device? Anyway.The Bat is recovered from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION and guys are messing around with it no consideration for raditation poisoning, as we're told that 6 months ago Bruce Wayne loaded a patch that fixed the auto pilot.

Except that the previous 2 films CLEARLY explain that Lucious Fox is the technical wizard behind Batman. So now Bruce Wayne can program and fix a problem that evaded Lucious and all his experience. When Lucious explained how he provided a antidote for Scarcrwos toxin, Bruce didnt even understand what he was saying. THIS BAatman is no the expert at everything the comic book version is. Lucious is the technical mastermind behind the Batman persona. Its a plot contivance with no thought put into how it is feasible or even possible. It defies the films own logic. The film once again, has ignored the reality that has been provided to us by the previous films.

That one brief quick example.

Actually, I'm right there with you about the idea that the dude's are examining the Bat with no logic regarding radiation, or for that matter how it somehow even managed to not be completely incinerated after the explosion, but I didn't find the idea of Bruce being more technically saavy after all of that time to be so far-fetched. Sure, the stuff Lucius supplied him with earlier on was crucial because he was newer to being Batman and his whole mission, but I could at least make the leap Nolan expected of us that after 8 years, even if he wasn't in such an emotionally great state and wasn't Batman anymore, that he at least perhaps passed some of his time in ways that could've furthered his skills in those departments. I know this would also be negated by Alfred's comment that he hadn't been down in the Batcave for quite some time, but I genuinely felt like of all the film's flaws, I actually could suspend disbelief and not get hungup on
Bruce knowing how to write and upload that software patch.
 
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