The Official WONDER WOMAN Discussion Thread - Part 3

[TheComicbookKid]

I kind of disagree. I think, while the Greek Gods part is obviously the most interesting aspect for Azz, there has been a lot of hinting as to Zola's role, and Wonder Woman has served as her protector. Like I said, I do agree that she has been underdeveloped, but I think she still fits into the story in her own way, she just needs to be fleshed out more so.

And I did like the way he utilized the Amazons. I loathed the characterization, and see it as a long line of character assassination for the Amazons, but they were utilized pretty well I felt.

The fact that he changed her origin for some reason that has yet to play into why she's battling to protect Zola is a major turn-off to me. It's as if without Zeus' parentage, Hera wouldn't be a B--ch and punish the Amazons for protecting Zola or WW wouldn't go all out to stop them.

The Amazons have come off as badly as they always have since they attacked Washington continuing to Gail's run. Some kind of collective hivemind that can't think beyond, "yes, my Queen".

I'll disagree here, too. I do think if they'd just released as an Elseworlds mini/GN, it would've been better, but they were always trying to tie the story into the main canon, and it just didn't work very well. And when they started getting into the whole metaficiton element, it was off by a battleship's length, diminishing the work a lot. At its core, there was actually a pretty interesting story, but the constant shoehorning of Wonder Woman elements into a story that was clueless as to almost everything about Wonder Woman created a pretty mediocre story. Had JMS just created his own character and done a Vertigo series with the same basic plot, it would have been a lot more focused, less muddled, and not trying to reinvent something it didn't really get. It had a lot of problems outside of that though, like the length and pacing.

I wouldn't have liked it as Earth One, though. I don't particularly care much for the idea of EO/Ultimates stuff, but I feel they should at least try to preserve the origin, and Odyssey's was way too removed.

In my mind, because the story was appearing in a book called Wonder Woman they forced the whole meta angle. The basis of the story was clearly in the vein of Superman Red Son. Just let it be a story about Wonder Woman and the God's manipulation of life would have been interesting. Choosing to be the best WW she could be despite not being who she should be instead of just a weird lambasting of the previous runs to make this one look cooler.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

eh, I guess you want to employ real people with superpowers in the movies, because I don't know how else you'd get them pulling super-feats without the aid of wires, and there was nowt wrong with the wire work in that scene.
Also, the martial arts in that scene I posted *were* a 'more hyper' version of what you posted.

No. I mean the wire-fu style where you have Neo flipping up on a banister to "command" a series of weapons to come to him. Why not just command them to fly straight into the people you're fighting? That wire-fu style was all about prolonged fights that got ridiculous.

The difference I was showing was that the fight ended in a quick manner(it's stupid, too. What soldiers don't carry guns?lol). Just have the people fly back into the walls and it would be a better version of the Neo style.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

No. I mean the wire-fu style where you have Neo flipping up on a banister to "command" a series of weapons to come to him. Why not just command them to fly straight into the people you're fighting? That wire-fu style was all about prolonged fights that got ridiculous.

The difference I was showing was that the fight ended in a quick manner(it's stupid, too. What soldiers don't carry guns?lol). Just have the people fly back into the walls and it would be a better version of the Neo style.

I'm not gonna quibble on those points(although I could, but it would be one of those things that would go on and on, and it's getting offtopic anyway), but aside from those quibbles, technically in the way the moves are represented, their speed and manner, the scene is the slickest one I have seen that recreates super-powered martial arts(without resorting to obvious CGI doubles, there maybe one, where Neo cartwheels, but it is seamless, and looks real), exactly like the ones we read in superhero comics.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I'm not gonna quibble on those points(although I could, but it would be one of those things that would go on and on, and it's getting offtopic anyway), but aside from those quibbles, technically in the way the moves are represented, their speed and manner, the scene is the slickest one I have seen that recreates super-powered martial arts(without resorting to obvious CGI doubles, there maybe one, where Neo cartwheels, but it is seamless, and looks real), exactly like the ones we read in superhero comics.

I don't disagree about the speed, but the "slickness" I guess is where the scene comes apart. There's speed without power. His punches lack impact(which is a big part of superheroics) and the scene becomes a prolonged dance until he decides to kill them with a weapon.

That's more of what I got in the scene I posted, imo. It felt like the point of her moves was to get rid of them with punches, hair cutting thingy, or whatever.

That's what WW's attack style to me would be more influenced by since she doesn't walk around with a blunt object to hit people. Her punches should impact and be effective at not prolonging fights.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I don't disagree about the speed, but the "slickness" I guess is where the scene comes apart. There's speed without power. His punches lack impact(which is a big part of superheroics) and the scene becomes a prolonged dance until he decides to kill them with a weapon.

That's more of what I got in the scene I posted, imo. It felt like the point of her moves was to get rid of them with punches, hair cutting thingy, or whatever.

That's what WW's attack style to me would be more influenced by since she doesn't walk around with a blunt object to hit people. Her punches should impact and be effective at not prolonging fights.

People who are highly skilled at martial arts, or indeed, who have superpowers, do not need much contact to do damage.
There are some bits that demonstrate the power behind the moves, like, when he kicks through the handle of a guy's axe.
edit: and if you are fighting a bunch of people who are of the same power level as you, of course the fight is going to be prolonged.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I like the way you try to explain it cause that's not what the clips(or how I remember the movie)show, imo.

People who are highly skilled at martial arts, or indeed, who have superpowers, do not need much contact to do damage.
There are some bits that demonstrate the power behind the moves, like, when he kicks through the handle of a guy's axe.
edit: and if you are fighting a bunch of people who are of the same power level as you, of course the fight is going to be prolonged.

That's my point... He never stops any of them except using a weapon when he obviously has the power to take them down any number of ways. It's just prolonged wire-fu so his hits lack the power he obviously has.
The guy mentally moves objects in a way no other person in that room does. They aren't on his level, the bleeding gives them some hope, then he proves how out of his league they are and just beats the crap out of them.

It's the same way I hate how Superman never utilizes more than one of his powers at a time instead of as a combo.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Look man, I already told you that I wasn't gonna take the thread offtopic and quibble those points, but you obviously think that statement was a sign of weakness, and i have nothing to debate with on that point, so are one of those types who want to take me on to try and prove me wrong about something, to make yourself look big or something.

You wanna hear my answer on your ridiculous quibble about him using a bit of telekinesis to grab those knives?
they would dodge and block any telekinetic attacks with weapons far easier than his martial arts, he would also struggle to use telekinesis on all of those opponents without leaving himself open to attack.
He's not got time to stand around doing that, he's constantly under physical attack.

It's a great scene for showcasing how superpowered physics can work onscreen in live action, without the need for CG doubles. and that is that is that.

 

[Mystirious]

And I did like the way he utilized the Amazons. I loathed the characterization, and see it as a long line of character assassination for the Amazons, but they were utilized pretty well I felt.

I wasn't happy with how warlike and violent he made them though or how they were so mean to Diana

 

[Drz]

Cliff Chang talks Wonder Woman!

Comic Vine: In our humble opinion, you have been doing an incredible job on Wonder Woman as the series' artist. Were you a fan of her character prior to signing on? What kind of research did you do for the role?

Cliff Chiang: Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. I'm certainly a fan of what Wonder Woman represents. I'm somewhat familiar with past runs, and of course I'm a fan of artists like Phil Jimenez, Adam Hughes, Mike Sekowsky and Dick Giordano, to name just a few, but the beauty of the relaunch is that research is beside the point. You do want to be aware of what's come before, but not in a way that will keep you from trying different things. This is very much a reinterpretation of Wonder Woman, and I'm glad we have the freedom to do that.

CV: There is no question about it; Diana is an iconic character. Yet, some see her being an "icon" as a double edged sword. Many creators have struggled to understand her identity, humanize her. Some would even say that she is weighed down by all that she is supposed to represent. Do you think you have brought a new identity to Wonder Woman? In your opinion, who is she? What does she mean to you? Is she different than she used to be?

CC: I think there have been many different and amazing interpretations of the character over the years, but it's hard to call any of them more valid than another. In a way, the character from the comics is quite separate from the cultural phenomenon of Wonder Woman. People see her as the ultimate embodiment of feminine qualities, but individually we all have different ideas of what a great woman is. To me, the image of Wonder Woman primarily evokes strength and independence, while for others she is all about love and compassion. You can't please everyone, so I try my best to present the character as honestly as I can.

CV: What do you think is Wonder Woman's biggest weakness?

CC: Haha, I feel like I'm answering questions for Wonder Woman's job interview. Her greatest weakness should also be her greatest asset, right? Well, I'd say her greatest weakness is that SHE CARES TOO MUCH. You'll find out what exactly that means in issue 7.

 

[Tron Bonne]

The fact that he changed her origin for some reason that has yet to play into why she's battling to protect Zola is a major turn-off to me. It's as if without Zeus' parentage, Hera wouldn't be a B--ch and punish the Amazons for protecting Zola or WW wouldn't go all out to stop them.

The Amazons have come off as badly as they always have since they attacked Washington continuing to Gail's run. Some kind of collective hivemind that can't think beyond, "yes, my Queen".

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that their characterization wasn't awful, but I think their role was executed well for the story. They weren't just placeholder characters or anything in front of the God of the conflict.

In my mind, because the story was appearing in a book called Wonder Woman they forced the whole meta angle. The basis of the story was clearly in the vein of Superman Red Son. Just let it be a story about Wonder Woman and the God's manipulation of life would have been interesting. Choosing to be the best WW she could be despite not being who she should be instead of just a weird lambasting of the previous runs to make this one look cooler.

I don't think it was just the fact that it was the fact that the book was called Wonder Woman. JMS seemed to have an obvious intent to reinvent Wonder Woman and this was his big critique/deconstruction of the concept, and Hester got stuck with trying to bring that about. You're right, if they'd just made it an pure Elseworlds, it would've been fine, but I don't think that was ever the intent, and it just came off as far too removed from the content to really be a good Wonder Woman story one way or the other.

 

[Anubis]

If you don't really get Wonder Woman in the first place, then try to deconstruct her, you get a mess.

Great if you don't know s**t about WW, not so much if you've already found your definitive WW.....and sadly, there's a lot of em thanks to most writers inability to give a s**t about what came before.

 

[Manic]

I'm convinced the majority of people who've written Wonder Woman over the past decade have read a Wikipedia summary of Perez's early run, picked up an issue of JLA, and decided to make the rest up from there.

 

[Manic]

I'm convinced the majority of people who've written Wonder Woman over the past decade have read a Wikipedia summary of Perez's early run, picked up an issue of JLA, and decided to make the rest up from there.

 

[Motown Marvel]

If you don't really get Wonder Woman in the first place, then try to deconstruct her, you get a mess.

Great if you don't know s**t about WW, not so much if you've already found your definitive WW.....and sadly, there's a lot of em thanks to most writers inability to give a s**t about what came before.

I'm convinced the majority of people who've written Wonder Woman over the past decade have read a Wikipedia summary of Perez's early run, picked up an issue of JLA, and decided to make the rest up from there.

yep.

most writers dont know how to write a strong independent woman who instills hope and inspiration. marston wrote such a good wonder woman because he really did believe that women were the better gender and desired a matriarchal society. if a writer cant understand that, then they cant write wonder woman.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I think that's a bit extreme to say. I don't really think a writer has to subscribe to the mentality of women > men to write a good Wonder Woman. I don't even think a writer, female or male, has to be a feminist per say to write Wonder Woman well.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I think that's a bit extreme to say. I don't really think a writer has to subscribe to the mentality of women > men to write a good Wonder Woman. I don't even think a writer, female or male, has to be a feminist per say to write Wonder Woman well.

it might be slightly extreme. but notice what i said, im not expecting them to subscribe to it, but they should recognize and understand the idea of it.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Oh well, yeah, I could see that more probably.

 

[ThDWgeek]

Does anybody know when the New 52 Wonder Woman trade comes out? I've heard May as a rumour, but I can't find anything to confirm it

EDIT: Found confirmation it is May, so here's hoping it's before my birthday!

 

[Drz]

Earth-2 Wonder Woman, the Last Amazon:

"Due the events that open the saga of EARTH 2, Wonder Woman is already the last Amazon of this world and she is determined to avenge her sisters…at whatever cost," Robinson told DC's blog, The Source. Series editor Pat McCallum weighs in as well, hinting at Earth 2 being a rather violent place, saying, "It’s one of the mysteries we’ll be getting into with the series. While there will be recognizable faces and settings on EARTH 2, don’t for a moment think you’re on familiar ground. Do that, and you let your guard down…and then you’ll end up like the rest of the Amazons.

 

[Kurosawa]

More warriooorrr chik Wonder Woman.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Of course alt. Earth WWs can have a semi battle skirt but not main WW.

 

[CrimsonMist]

The more I read about this new Earth-2, the less I like about it.

 

[Mystirious]

Yep

I hate that they've killed off all the Amazons on both earths. It's a dumb idea and more violent angry warrior Wonder Woman is the last thing we need after the godawful Odyssey story

In fact Earth 2 just sounds like a repeat of Odyssey

Also why has Wonder Woman stolen the Witchblade

 

[Primal Slayer]

DC just likes the whole "last _____ of the ____"

And she stole it because the witchblade is cool.

 

[Drz]

Of course alt. Earth WWs can have a semi battle skirt but not main WW.

Yep, because the WW fans only care about the main one.