The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[TheBatman072]

In all fairness, the cartoon needed to be that extreme to show the change over a 40 minute story arc. I like Big Bad Harv but I don't really care which way they go about it in the film. I think in the context of this movie having Harvey be completely pure and then completely tainted might work better than him starting off with problems.

I hate Big Bad Harv.


I'd much rather they go the route of Long Halloween Dent.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Accusing me for being ok with Heath being dead. That is very offensive.

That is not what I said.

If you go back and read what I said, it was 'how could the death of a fictional character make this film depressing when real life circumstances are actually tragic?'

I didn't accuse you of being okay with anything, how would I know how you feel - but of all the things to worry about casing a "depressing" tone over the film, I'm surprised you would be talking about Rachels demise.

Isnt the death of the whatever number of people Joker kills motivation enough to take him down?

No, thats clearly the difference between personal motivation and moral obligation. Moral obligation would drive him to act, but personal motivation would be compelling for the audience and more interesting for the character arc.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I dont agree at all about that. That would be against everything about the character. Batman is a man of justice, not a man of revenge. Which really means that he shouldnt hate somebody because of personal feelings. Batman fights crime for the citizens of Gotham's sake. That would make Bruce seem to care less about them than Rachel.

Well that's not how it's been in the comics. Joker has always attacked people close to Batman, and Batman must always fight the urge to kill him for the sake of revenge. Joker has crippled Batgirl, killed Robin II, tortured Gordon...among other things.

 

[Saint]

The element of personal tragedy is what spurs the conflict that's always been at the heart of Batman: the question of whether what he does is for justice or revenge. Obviously we know the answer, in the end, is justice--but Batman would not be Batman if he didn't not sometimes face the conflict, if he were not sometimes overwhelmed by thoughts of revenge and his darker qualities. Killing Rachel serves this, in that it forces him to face his true reasons for pursuing Joker, forces him to overcome personal vendetta and adhere to his ideals.

Assuming Joker's "Tonight you're gonna break your one rule" line is directed at Batman, it sounds like he's trying to break Batman into giving into revenge, and killing him. He did this with Superman once; made Superman think the only way to save Lois was to kill the Joker himself. If that is indeed the plan, killing Rachel seems like an obvious choice from a writer's perspective (though, of course, not from the Joker's perspective, since he doesn't know of her connection to Batman).

 

[Banquet]

I wonder how they are going to handle that fact. The Joker, unless he knows who Batman is, won't actually understand the personal reasons for Batman's pursuit (unless he thinks the Batmen would make it personal). I guess that would just make it harder for Batman to deal with his anger over it.

 

[Laderlappen]

The element of personal tragedy is what spurs the conflict that's always been at the heart of Batman: the question of whether what he does is for justice or revenge. Obviously we know the answer, in the end, is justice

That's a good point. Rather that than having Batman doing what he does because of revenge.

 

[TNC9852002]

I hate Big Bad Harv.


I'd much rather they go the route of Long Halloween Dent.

What's the difference? [/comic n00b]

-TNC

 

[staffroyce]

Any semblance of sex appeal disappeared since Maggie stepped in. You cant have a Batman lady that looks like stranger than fiction and just because she did Secretary does not make her Meryl Streep or Katherine Hepburn same way because Ledger died he's heralded as Gregory Peck overnight. I think Katie was perfectly fine as Rachel Dawes and did have the chemistry with Bale. Katie becomes Judi Dench once you see Portman in Star Wars,Bosworth,Mendes,Halle Barry,Alba and many others. I even think it was so lightweight between Paltrow and RDJ in Iron Man because its cliched and its so Bond MoneyPenny for me. I guess romances in superhero stuff does not exactly water my mouth because it should be omitted. Rachel dies this time to make Batman more guilty?
So lazy and unoriginal because Batman is like Bond too. Sure he's less shallow and less of a gigolo in Nolan's world but he cant bond too long with a girl because of conflicts and his playboy personna throws off his Batman scent.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

Any semblance of sex appeal disappeared since Maggie stepped in. You cant have a Batman lady that looks like stranger than fiction and just because she did Secretary does not make her Meryl Streep or Katherine Hepburn same way because Ledger died he's heralded as Gregory Peck overnight. I think Katie was perfectly fine as Rachel Dawes and did have the chemistry with Bale. Katie becomes Judi Dench once you see Portman in Star Wars,Bosworth,Mendes,Halle Barry,Alba and many others. I even think it was so lightweight between Paltrow and RDJ in Iron Man because its cliched and its so Bond MoneyPenny for me. I guess romances in superhero stuff does not exactly water my mouth because it should be omitted. Rachel dies this time to make Batman more guilty?
So lazy and unoriginal because Batman is like Bond too. Sure he's less shallow and less of a gigolo in Nolan's world but he cant bond too long with a girl because of conflicts and his playboy personna throws off his Batman scent.

yeah, cant tell you how many times i've referred to heath as the next gregory peck...

 

[deathfromabove]

maggie is much sexier than mz cruise. and even though this is not the thread for this i thought downey and paltrow had great chemistry in iron man.

and katie holes should never be mentioned in comparison to dame dench.

 

[Saint]

I'm always perplexed when people suggest Maggie Gyllenhaal isn't attractive.

 

[Crook]

Obviously because her features aren't what you'd typically associate with attractiveness.

 

[bunk]

She's like the cowl on the Batsuit. Or maybe like that chick Jerry dates who only looks good at Monk's. Some thing's not right though.

 

[deathfromabove]

Obviously because her features aren't what i would typically associate with attractiveness.

fixed.

you realize how subjective something like attractiveness is right?

 

[Octoberist]

I'm always perplexed when people suggest Maggie Gyllenhaal isn't attractive.

she's was banging hot in "Stranger than Fiction"

It's so...weird that fans are nitpicking her looks. nobody can be happy anymore. katie holmes is gone and yet they still complain.

 

[Crook]

fixed.

you realize how subjective something like attractiveness is right?

The quote's not fixed because it doesn't just apply to me. Unless I have hundreds of multiple accounts, and have been the only person in the world to discount Maggie's looks, that is.

And yes, I know attraction is subjective. So why is there fuss about people not liking her looks then?

 

[itsthebatman]

The quote's not fixed because it doesn't just apply to me. Unless I have hundreds of multiple accounts, and have been the only person in the world to discount Maggie's looks, that is.

And yes, I know attraction is subjective. So why is there fuss about people not liking her looks then?

'Her features aren't what you'd associate with attractiveness.' That is your quote, and it's a generalisation that implies any reasonable person would consider Maggie unattractive. And that is not true.

 

[deathfromabove]

'It's not what you'd associate with attractiveness.' That is your quote, and it's a generalisation that implies any reasonable person would consider Maggie unattractive. And that is not true.

reading comprehension ftw!

 

[Crook]

That's not what I said at all.

I said her features (no matter if you like them or not) isn't what's considered to be typically beautiful. That's not something I invented, that's determined by....society.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Maggie at the CFDA Awards Monday night (6/2)

http://www.dlisted.com/node/26333

 

[Watson]

Maggie at the CFDA Awards Monday night (6/2)

http://www.dlisted.com/node/26333

Maggie is known for having a "distinctive" fashion sense. The Fug girls have a whole section dedicated to her on thier site http://gofugyourself.celebuzz.com/go_fug_yourself/maggie_gyllenhaal/

 

[Saint]

Maggie at the CFDA Awards Monday night (6/2)

http://www.dlisted.com/node/26333

She's wearing weird clothes. So what? You could have just as easily posted this, where she looks great:

 

[Laderlappen]

Lets break this down, shall we?!

Any semblance of sex appeal disappeared since Maggie stepped in.

Wrong. Actually Katie has never been half as sexy as Maggie was in Secretary.

You cant have a Batman lady that looks like stranger than fiction

Wrong.

and just because she did Secretary does not make her Meryl Streep or Katherine Hepburn

True, but nobody has said that.

same way because Ledger died he's heralded as Gregory Peck overnight.

Wrong.

I think Katie was perfectly fine as Rachel Dawes

Wrong.

and did have the chemistry with Bale.

Wrong.

Katie becomes Judi Dench once you see Portman in Star Wars,Bosworth,Mendes,Halle Barry,Alba and many others.

Wrong with the big W. Actually All those actresses are better than Katie except fr maybe Alba.

I even think it was so lightweight between Paltrow and RDJ in Iron Man because its cliched and its so Bond MoneyPenny for me.

Havent seen IM yet so I can say. But my guess is that you're wrong.

So lazy and unoriginal because Batman is like Bond too.

Wrong.


I have to than you though for pushing me out of the uncomfirtable spotlight.

 

[deathfromabove]

She's wearing weird clothes. So what? You could have just as easily posted this, where she looks great:

i am constantly surprised/dissapointed at how conservative some are around here.

 

[StylishHokie21]

She's wearing weird clothes. So what? You could have just as easily posted this, where she looks great:

Great picture! I didn't think much of her at first, but she's pretty damn cute now.