The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[inflames]

I wanna bang her.

 

[chintai80]

I wanna bang her.

i concur.

 

[David Rice]

Obviously because her features aren't what you'd typically associate with attractiveness.

Thank you.

 

[Watson]

You know, if you can get past the fact that she is wearing a mumu over Aladdin pants, she herself looks very cute IMO

 

[Conebone69]

What the? That whole outfit makes her look really weird

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Okay, I'm going to put on my "objective hat" and respond to the following.

Any semblance of sex appeal disappeared since Maggie stepped in. You cant have a Batman lady that looks like stranger than fiction and just because she did Secretary does not make her Meryl Streep or Katherine Hepburn same way because Ledger died he's heralded as Gregory Peck overnight.

Enough people have already torn this apart, but I just want to step in and mention that Heath Ledger got an Oscar nod BEFORE he died. So don't you dare claim that people are only thinking he's a good actor because of sympathy. It's the bottom of the barrel to disrespect the memory of those who have passed away and I thought I'd speak up for him as he's not here to do it himself.

fixed.

you realize how subjective something like attractiveness is right?

Okay - again with my "objective hat" I'm going to say this isn't entirely accurate. There is some degree of variation in what we find attractive, but through my training in painting and portraiture I have learned about a wealth of scientific and mathamatical laws of beauty. There is the law of symmetry, the golden ratio, various proportions, hip to waist ratio, etc.

Any claims that beauty is not "scientific" will have to answer to the fact that there have been large scale experiments done in regards to beauty, and statistically significant numbers of people have all chosen the same traits to be beautiful, across cultural and national lines. This is one good link

http://www.beautyanalysis.com/mba_beautyranges_page.htm

There is a wealth of resources about this subject on the internet, and several universities are continuing their research into our perceptions of beauty and the laws of what human beings universally find attractive.

http://media.www.dailyorange.com/me...uty.Based.On.Evolutionary.Ideals-668070.shtml

http://www.universalhedonics.com/science.html

http://www.yestheyrefake.net/ideal_beauty.htm

http://www.cojoweb.com/phi.html

http://www.geocities.com/Omegaman_UK/beauty.html

Now, how does this relate to Maggie? Well I would put forth the claim that if you did a research project which had a wide enough range of participants to be statistically valid, on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being a deformed monster face and 10 being a sex icon like Marylin Monroe, Maggie would probably be a 7 or 8. On the other hand someone like Michelle Pfeiffer at the time she played Catwoman, would certainly score in the 9-10 range when you average everyones vote.

What does this mean in the end for the film? That depends on your opinion I guess of whether a "7 or 8" gal is the right fit for Bruce Waynes love interest. I just thought to counter all this "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" business with some scientific facts. Beauty really isn't in the eye of the beholder, at least 95% of it isn't. That last 5% you can give to personality and individual preference, but on the whole all human beings unconsciously prefer the right proportions, symmetrical faces, golden ratios and a lot of other factors I won't go into here but you can check out the links.

'It's not what you'd associate with attractiveness.' That is your quote, and it's a generalisation that implies any reasonable person would consider Maggie unattractive. And that is not true.

See above.

I doubt a reasonable person would consider Maggie unattractive, but I also doubt your average person (statistically speaking) would rank her in the "most beautiful women" category of 9-10 range either.

 

[magus]

Okay, I'm going to put on my "objective hat" and respond to the following.

I doubt a reasonable person would consider Maggie unattractive, but I also doubt your average person (statistically speaking) would rank her in the "most beautiful women" category of 9-10 range either.

I agree with this statement. Without the makeup and expensive fashion she is perfectly average in her appearance. Whether average is appropriate for this film or not is debatable, and I don't have a stance one way or the other. I don't even think the character should exist so I couldn't care less who plays her and won't argue one way or another.

It's hyperbole to say she is straight up ugly; anyone who has said that hasn't been to their local supermarket lately, or lives in LA. It is also just flat out wrong to say beauty is completely subjective: there are plenty of factors, previously stated by other posters, in what society determines is beautiful.

Major point: it is pretty pointless to argue over the attractiveness of the actress playing Rachel when the character shouldn't exist in the first place t:.

 

[Crook]

Well I can confidently say I don't have the time, patience, nor resources to go through that much trouble in explaining beauty. But yes, I wholeheartedly agree with the last few posts.

So thanks.

 

[MAKIEVELLI]

honestly, if you find Maggie attractive, whatever, it's in your opinion. But when you call her beautiful, that's really pushing the envelope. She's barely cute on a really good day, has a not so great body (the movie where she plays the blonde, in the sex scene), and she doesn't hold a candle to Katie Holmes who isn't beautiful herself. Women like Jessica Alba, Nicole Kidman, and Naomi Campbell would be considered beautiful. WOuld you put Maggie or Katie in those categories? Honestly, I've dated much hotter girls than her, not putting her down as an actress or anything, I know it seems like I am, but she is not beautiful

 

[Conebone69]

honestly, if you find Maggie attractive, whatever, it's in your opinion. But when you call her beautiful, that's really pushing the envelope. She's barely cute on a really good day, has a not so great body (the movie where she plays the blonde, in the sex scene), and she doesn't hold a candle to Katie Holmes who isn't beautiful herself. Women like Jessica Alba, Nicole Kidman, and Naomi Campbell would be considered beautiful. WOuld you put Maggie or Katie in those categories? Honestly, I've dated much hotter girls than her, not putting her down as an actress or anything, I know it seems like I am, but she is not beautiful

Most. legit. post. ever

 

[Dirt Like Me]

You know, if you can get past the fact that she is wearing a mumu over Aladdin pants, she herself looks very cute IMO

And if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass when it hopped.

I'm generally fine with Maggie and think she can be pretty cute, but she's not winning herself any converts by dressing like a clown. (I'm sure her goal in life is to win the affections of internet message boards, right?).

 

[Schlosser85]

Why does she have to be beautiful in the first place?

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

That's not what I said at all.

I said her features (no matter if you like them or not) isn't what's considered to be typically beautiful. That's not something I invented, that's determined by....society.

Depends on who you talk to and how you think. So many people have different standards of beauty. Some find tall, voluptuous women to be the epitome of beauty; others tend to go more for the petite type. Some like great, big bottoms, whereas, other's find this very unattractive in a woman. Some prefer brunettes; some prefer blondes. If you buy into what you see on TV, Angelina Jolie is supposedly the most beautiful woman in the world. I don't agree with this perception and I know several people who are often turned off by her odd lip shape.

Still, I get what you're saying to a point. Thing is, I just don't find Maggie's features to be all that odd looking. There are certain individuals I would put in that category, but she's not one of them. Some guys are just blowing things out of proporation.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

honestly, if you find Maggie attractive, whatever, it's in your opinion. But when you call her beautiful, that's really pushing the envelope. She's barely cute on a really good day, has a not so great body (the movie where she plays the blonde, in the sex scene), and she doesn't hold a candle to Katie Holmes who isn't beautiful herself. Women like Jessica Alba, Nicole Kidman, and Naomi Campbell would be considered beautiful. WOuld you put Maggie or Katie in those categories? Honestly, I've dated much hotter girls than her, not putting her down as an actress or anything, I know it seems like I am, but she is not beautiful

Focusing on looks doesn't get us anywhere because everyone has a unique opinion. Maggie's a pretty girl, but not a stunning beauty in my eyes. I tend to go more for the Elizabeth Hurley, Jodi Applegate (anchor woman), Jenya Lano types if we're talking about really striking women. Alba has a great body, but her face is pretty average in my book and Naomi isn't anything special either. Why does that matter though? We need to stop with the he said/he said BS. To each his own.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Great pic. Thanks for posting this.

 

[Saint]

Hurm. I guess I must have a different standard of beauty, since I don't need women to look like Jessica Alba to consider them beautiful. Frankly, this seems like an advantage.

Honestly, I've dated much hotter girls than her,

I'm going to put this right under "I'd beat you up in real life!" on my list of most amusing examples of internet posturing.

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[Crook]

Depends on who you talk to and how you think. So many people have different standards of beauty. Some find tall, voluptuous women to be the epitome of beauty; others tend to go more for the petite type. Some like great, big bottoms, whereas, other's find this very unattractive in a woman. Some prefer brunettes; some prefer blondes. If you buy into what you see on TV, Angelina Jolie is supposedly the most beautiful woman in the world. I don't agree with this perception and I know several people who are often turned off by her odd lip shape.

I'd say there's more of a universal agreement on the attraction of facial features, as opposed to the examples you have noted. Some men may prefer curvy women, some may prefer petite....but more than likely their preferences in faces are more aligned.

I'm going to put this right under "I'd beat you up in real life!" on my list of most amusing examples of internet posturing.

Then I wholeheartedly disagree. Is it that unbelievable guys have dated girls better looking than Maggie? Really?

 

[Saint]

Then I wholeheartedly disagree. Is it that unbelievable guys have dated girls better looking than Maggie? Really?

Not what I said. Posturing means the attitude is artificial, not the claims.

 

[Crook]

What makes you think it's artificial? There's really not much reason to lie considering the claim isn't so astonishing.

 

[Saint]

What makes you think it's artificial? There's really not much reason to lie considering the claim isn't so astonishing.

I never said he lied. Please re-read my previous post. Assuming an attitude does not mean you're lying. As a similar example, if I say "I'm a black belt and I can beat up more people than Tobey Maguire," that's posturing. Yes, I was once a black belt, but that's still posturing (and of course I have no idea if I can beat up more people than Tobey Maguire, or anybody for that matter, but let's pretend that's not the case for this example).

 

[bunk]

But can you dance better than Tobey Maguire?

 

[Saint]

But can you dance better than Tobey Maguire?

Well, absolutely. I can dance better than everybody.

 

[MAKIEVELLI]

Hurm. I guess I must have a different standard of beauty, since I don't need women to look like Jessica Alba to consider them beautiful. Frankly, this seems like an advantage.



I'm going to put this right under "I'd beat you up in real life!" on my list of most amusing examples of internet posturing.

Honestly, it has nothing to do with internet posturing. Maggie is not ugly, but I was trying to point out more her everyday-ness in comparison to the average woman than my innate ability to woo and eventually sweep a woman off her feet. But, in all seriousness, you can take it how you want but I stand by my statement.

 

[Crook]

I never said he lied. Please re-read my previous post. Assuming an attitude does not mean you're lying. As a similar example, if I say "I'm a black belt and I can beat up more people than Tobey Maguire," that's posturing. Yes, I was once a black belt, but that's still posturing (and of course I have no idea if I can beat up more people than Tobey Maguire, or anybody for that matter, but let's pretend that's not the case for this example).

Well then replace "reason to lie" with "reason to put on a facade" and you get the same idea.