The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 10

[ADollarADay]

I suspect that of the outstanding properties, FF is probably the highest priority and also most likely to return soon.

Spider-Man is a weird situation because Marvel can use the character but with limitations. If Sony is really serious about the goofy plan they've proposed, that probably means Spider-Man will be reverting fully at some point after the dust has settled on that mess (and fans have seen enough of Spider-Man).

Marvel is probably content to let Fox do X-Men for a while but if Fox doesn't get a lot better at planning, coordinating and making those films (and if they really let Kinberg take charge), it's as likely as not they'll be a mess several years from now.

And then there's Namor and Hulk which seem a little screwy.

So I would guess Feige and Marvel are most interested in FF at the moment, and then they'll probably wait and see what happens with the others and pick them off as they have opportunities.

I don't agree with that. You're a bit biased, so obviously you want it to be FF :P

Marvel has to pay Sony up to 35MM per Spiderman movie (deal made to get the merch rights). It can go up to 120MM per 10 year period IIRC. They definitely don't want or need that expense. They don't have that expense with any of the Fox franchises. Spiderman is the most popular character in the world, whether we like it or not. I would have to think Spiderman is priority number 1.

I don't think Marvel is contend on letting Fox keep making X-Men movies. They only get about 2% of the BO gross for X-Men and 5% for Deadpool. Horrible. They also know the potential there, I would have to think they would follow the same formula they have with the Avengers and solo movies would get you 500-600MM+ and ensemble movies would get you 1B+. They could do an Xmen vs Inhumans and build up inhumans and could build up to an XMen vs Avengers which would probably break all Marvel records and maybe get up to main SW BO level, if done right. So, no, I don't think they are contend letting Fox keep doing them, even if they have done great movies like Logan and Deadpool (especially the latter as it really put DP's name on the mainstream).

They can do Hulk and Namor (presumably) on ensembles forever. They probably want full rights back, but there's a decent loophole here that they can exploit, so this is probably the lowest priority.

My guess on priority to getting rights back would be Spiderman >>>> FF = X-Men >>> Namor = Hulk.

 

[Zarex]

The thing about the BO gross % is that they look pretty good when the films underperform. The $50M or so Marvel Entertainment brought in on Deadpool pales in comparison to FOX's profit in the hundreds of millions. But the measly 2% estimate for Apocalypse, around $11 million, may be more than what FOX earned on the film. And Marvel definitely earned money on FFINO.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't agree with that. You're a bit biased, so obviously you want it to be FF :P

Marvel has to pay Sony up to 35MM per Spiderman movie (deal made to get the merch rights). It can go up to 120MM per 10 year period IIRC. They definitely don't want or need that expense. They don't have that expense with any of the Fox franchises. Spiderman is the most popular character in the world, whether we like it or not. I would have to think Spiderman is priority number 1.

I don't think Marvel is contend on letting Fox keep making X-Men movies. They only get about 2% of the BO gross for X-Men and 5% for Deadpool. Horrible. They also know the potential there, I would have to think they would follow the same formula they have with the Avengers and solo movies would get you 500-600MM+ and ensemble movies would get you 1B+. They could do an Xmen vs Inhumans and build up inhumans and could build up to an XMen vs Avengers which would probably break all Marvel records and maybe get up to main SW BO level, if done right. So, no, I don't think they are contend letting Fox keep doing them, even if they have done great movies like Logan and Deadpool (especially the latter as it really put DP's name on the mainstream).

They can do Hulk and Namor (presumably) on ensembles forever. They probably want full rights back, but there's a decent loophole here that they can exploit, so this is probably the lowest priority.

My guess on priority to getting rights back would be Spiderman >>>> FF = X-Men >>> Namor = Hulk.

They might like to have more cash in their pocket on Spider-Man (if possible), but since Sony isn't going to give it up and since Marvel will be featuring Spidey in several of their own films along with joint films in the coming years, I can't imagine it's that high of a priority at the moment.

But that could just be a matter of semantics regarding the word "priority" and if we're talking about priority from the accounting or creative side of things.

 

[InCali]

I don't agree with that. You're a bit biased, so obviously you want it to be FF :P

Marvel has to pay Sony up to 35MM per Spiderman movie (deal made to get the merch rights). It can go up to 120MM per 10 year period IIRC. They definitely don't want or need that expense. They don't have that expense with any of the Fox franchises. Spiderman is the most popular character in the world, whether we like it or not. I would have to think Spiderman is priority number 1.

I don't think Marvel is contend on letting Fox keep making X-Men movies. They only get about 2% of the BO gross for X-Men and 5% for Deadpool. Horrible. They also know the potential there, I would have to think they would follow the same formula they have with the Avengers and solo movies would get you 500-600MM+ and ensemble movies would get you 1B+. They could do an Xmen vs Inhumans and build up inhumans and could build up to an XMen vs Avengers which would probably break all Marvel records and maybe get up to main SW BO level, if done right. So, no, I don't think they are contend letting Fox keep doing them, even if they have done great movies like Logan and Deadpool (especially the latter as it really put DP's name on the mainstream).

They can do Hulk and Namor (presumably) on ensembles forever. They probably want full rights back, but there's a decent loophole here that they can exploit, so this is probably the lowest priority.

My guess on priority to getting rights back would be Spiderman >>>> FF = X-Men >>> Namor = Hulk.

I would say "was" rather than "is". I think Sony really damaged SM and he is just now being rehabilitated. I expect his movie to do well, but not over perform. If Sony is going ahead with some of the silly plans I've heard about, it could further damage SM.

I agree with Lumpkin. FF and the associated characters would be at the top of Marvel's wish list. It opens up so many more possibilities and richness to MCU.

 

[Zarex]

There are 441 FF family characters on the list of banned sketch card characters released on Bleeding Cool. And while there's an awful lot of dross among them, there are at least twenty or so big names in addition to the FF, including Doom, Galactus, Blastaar, the Surfer, Annihilus, Firelord, Thundra, Mephisto, Agatha Harkness, Uatu, Molecule Man and Super Skrull.

Make no mistake, getting the FF family into the MCU would be HUGE, bigger than adding Spidey or (dare I say it) the X-Men. The heroes and villains would be a ridiculously easy fit into the existing MCU, both on earth and in space, and set up Marvel Studios for at least another decade of success.

An interesting point is that Kang is not on the list. Given that he was announced as the villain on the sequel to Lego Marvel Superheroes, which appears to have a heavy MCU focus, it is looking like the Conqueror may be available to Feige and company.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/0...ers-marvel-comics-restricted-licensing-x-men/

 

[GeckoMoria]

Lego Marvel Superheroes DOESNT HAVE a heavy MCU focus. It came out in late 2013 where the MCU was in full force.

Lego Avengers has a heavy MCU focus because it focuses and recreates MCU events. Marvel Superheroes primary focus is the 616 which is way it had whole chapters with X-men and F4.

I'm really tired of some of you spinning the facts to create signs that are not there. You misinform and confuse people.

 

[Zarex]

I only confuse those that struggle with reading comprehension. I wrote SEQUEL to Lego Marvel Superheroes. The teaser, art and character reveals contained no FOX controlled characters.

 

[wobbly]

I'd love to see that film! If they really told it like it was (and made it about Stan and Jack, not just Stan), I think it would be fascinating.

Lee was born in 1922 (yeah, I just looked it up) so he would have been in his forties for the FF era.

How about Adrian Brody?

Nah to Brody. Looks nothing like Stan. Oddly enough Tom Holland looks a bit like the young Stan Lee.

 

[InCali]

There are 441 FF family characters on the list of banned sketch card characters released on Bleeding Cool. And while there's an awful lot of dross among them, there are at least twenty or so big names in addition to the FF, including Doom, Galactus, Blastaar, the Surfer, Annihilus, Firelord, Thundra, Mephisto, Agatha Harkness, Uatu, Molecule Man and Super Skrull.

Make no mistake, getting the FF family into the MCU would be HUGE, bigger than adding Spidey or (dare I say it) the X-Men. The heroes and villains would be a ridiculously easy fit into the existing MCU, both on earth and in space, and set up Marvel Studios for at least another decade of success.

An interesting point is that Kang is not on the list. Given that he was announced as the villain on the sequel to Lego Marvel Superheroes, which appears to have a heavy MCU focus, it is looking like the Conqueror may be available to Feige and company.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/0...ers-marvel-comics-restricted-licensing-x-men/

Kang is a very cool villain. I first remember him from Avengers #8. Was he around before that? The reason I remember it is that I have that comic. Since people always said he was a FF villain, I wondered if he appeared before that.

 

[terry78]

His last name is Richards, but he doesn't have any connection with the FF at all? Or is it just still a mystery.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Nah to Brody. Looks nothing like Stan. Oddly enough Tom Holland looks a bit like the young Stan Lee.

It might be a bit of a stretch, but I think Brody could pull it off as an actor. Tom Holland is too young (for the story I would want to tell), but I'm sure there are others. Brody was the first that popped into my head (and I still think that with some dark glasses and the right hair he wouldn't be too far off).

 

[terry78]

It'll be someone nobody expects, like it always is.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I hope this settles this discussion

 

[wobbly]

Bobby Cannavale for Kirby imo.

 

[ADollarADay]

I would say "was" rather than "is". I think Sony really damaged SM and he is just now being rehabilitated. I expect his movie to do well, but not over perform. If Sony is going ahead with some of the silly plans I've heard about, it could further damage SM.

I agree with Lumpkin. FF and the associated characters would be at the top of Marvel's wish list. It opens up so many more possibilities and richness to MCU.

The data we have of merch and toy sales for Spiderman outselling all others WW was circa 2014-15 IIRC, right after The Amazing Spiderman 2. The other points you make is exactly why I said Marvel/Disney should have never done the 2015 deal.

It's cool, we agree to disagree. I think SM is much higher priority and XM/FF are pretty much on equal footing. If Feige could just get one (FF/XM/SM), I would guess SM would come first by a good country mile. It's no wonder they have done deals for merch and horrible deals for him. He's that big a deal. 2nd/3rd would be interchangeable, I would prefer XM, but I can see Feige preferring either/or. We know the Russos would prefer the XM and Gunn would prefer the FF.

Your last point about the lore and possibilities of the FF is exactly why Fox will not give up FF for nothing. I am of the opinion that they would create something random like FF: College years on a relatively cheap budget like "Get Out" and close to no special effects because it would just be Reed/Ben in their college years, a prequel of sorts. Low risk taking, even if less people watch it than Fan4stic. And they keep the IP for at least another 7 years (2029 or whatever). I know people don't like hearing it, but that's probably what they'll do if nothing changes. IIRC they still regret losing the DD license just to see Marvel make millions on the netflix show.

 

[wobbly]

His last name is Richards, but he doesn't have any connection with the FF at all? Or is it just still a mystery.

It's a bit muddled (at one point early on it was suggested he and Doom were related) and has been subject to ret-cons but afaik Kang's real name remains Nathaniel Richards and it was implied he is a future descendent from Reeds father (named the same). Reeds dad ended up living in an alternate timeline for a long spell (Earth-6311, Kang's true timeline) though Reeds dad crossed over to that into the current time, not the future where Kang came from.

When Kang first travelled back in time he became Rama-Tut in ancient Egypt of the 616 timeline (and met the FF first there), and went on to become Kang when he tried to return to his own future & timeline and overshot the mark.

Then there's Immortus who just confuses the whole thing even more...

 

[Zarex]

Your last point about the lore and possibilities of the FF is exactly why Fox will not give up FF for nothing. I am of the opinion that they would create something random like FF: College years on a relatively cheap budget like "Get Out" and close to no special effects because it would just be Reed/Ben in their college years, a prequel of sorts. Low risk taking, even if less people watch it than Fan4stic. And they keep the IP for at least another 7 years (2029 or whatever). I know people don't like hearing it, but that's probably what they'll do if nothing changes. IIRC they still regret losing the DD license just to see Marvel make millions on the netflix show.

Assuming that an pre-FF film would not fall outside of the licensing agreement, I can't think of a single reason why a studio would do such a thing, never mind one that has close business ties to the Mouse.

It's not that we don't like hearing it. It's that it doesn't make a lick of sense. It's flushing money down the toilet in order to maintain the possibility of flushing more money in the future. A studio chief with a functioning brain stem will cut a deal long before we get to "The FF Kids"

 

[ADollarADay]

Assuming that an pre-FF film would not fall outside of the licensing agreement, I can't think of a single reason why a studio would do such a thing, never mind one that has close business ties to the Mouse.

It's not that we don't like hearing it. It's that it doesn't make a lick of sense. It's flushing money down the toilet in order to maintain the possibility of flushing more money in the future. A studio chief with a functioning brain stem will cut a deal long before we get to "The FF Kids"

Not really flushing money down the toilet when it's such a low budget movie. You keep a very powerful IP. Fox doesn't owe Disney anything. It's business. I can see them cutting a deal as well, but I can't see them giving it up for free either unless there's a legal way Disney can get it back by force.

 

[InCali]

The data we have of merch and toy sales for Spiderman outselling all others WW was circa 2014-15 IIRC, right after The Amazing Spiderman 2. The other points you make is exactly why I said Marvel/Disney should have never done the 2015 deal.

It's cool, we agree to disagree. I think SM is much higher priority and XM/FF are pretty much on equal footing. If Feige could just get one (FF/XM/SM), I would guess SM would come first by a good country mile. It's no wonder they have done deals for merch and horrible deals for him. He's that big a deal. 2nd/3rd would be interchangeable, I would prefer XM, but I can see Feige preferring either/or. We know the Russos would prefer the XM and Gunn would prefer the FF.

Your last point about the lore and possibilities of the FF is exactly why Fox will not give up FF for nothing. I am of the opinion that they would create something random like FF: College years on a relatively cheap budget like "Get Out" and close to no special effects because it would just be Reed/Ben in their college years, a prequel of sorts. Low risk taking, even if less people watch it than Fan4stic. And they keep the IP for at least another 7 years (2029 or whatever). I know people don't like hearing it, but that's probably what they'll do if nothing changes. IIRC they still regret losing the DD license just to see Marvel make millions on the netflix show.

And, yet, the last two SM movies made less than a movie about a bunch of (unknown) a-holes. We'll see how SM:H does, but I still think they've damaged the franchise and it's just now recovering.

Your point about merchandising is a valid one. I suppose it depends on what measure you are using. I wasn't even considering XM. Yeah, if Marvel could get XM back, I think they'd do that in a heartbeat, but I don't see that happening for quite some time. I guess it comes down to what's in the mind of the person. Do they want a much richer MCU with the chance of making a lot of money for a very long time or would they prefer to have higher (at least for now) merchandising and other sales. Those sales don't necessarily stay where they are or go up.

What DOES all of the SM merchandise $$$ go? It occurs to me that I don't really know. LOL.

 

[InCali]

Not really flushing money down the toilet when it's such a low budget movie. You keep a very powerful IP. Fox doesn't owe Disney anything. It's business. I can see them cutting a deal as well, but I can't see them giving it up for free either unless there's a legal way Disney can get it back by force.

We've talked about the quality clause. I think if Fox did something like that, the gloves would come off and they could lose FF for the price of a lawsuit. I don't see that IP as "powerful" for Fox. The only value is that someone else might do a better job with it. To potentially screw up some lucrative partnerships by doing something like that would, IMO, be bad business.

I think cutting a deal is the best approach for both sides and I think both sides know it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's a bit muddled (at one point early on it was suggested he and Doom were related) and has been subject to ret-cons but afaik Kang's real name remains Nathaniel Richards and it was implied he is a future descendent from Reeds father (named the same). Reeds dad ended up living in an alternate timeline for a long spell (Earth-6311, Kang's true timeline) though Reeds dad crossed over to that into the current time, not the future where Kang came from.

When Kang first travelled back in time he became Rama-Tut in ancient Egypt of the 616 timeline (and met the FF first there), and went on to become Kang when he tried to return to his own future & timeline and overshot the mark.

Then there's Immortus who just confuses the whole thing even more...

I'm glad you took a stab at that, because I wasn't about to try.

 

[Dark Raven]

I hope this settles this discussion

Is that Stan Lee in the black and white photo?

 

[GeckoMoria]

I only confuse those that struggle with reading comprehension. I wrote SEQUEL to Lego Marvel Superheroes. The teaser, art and character reveals contained no FOX controlled characters.

There is no way to know whether the sequel will or won't have Fox characters. Kang is an indication that it will have. There has been only a 16 second teaser and apromo art. way too soon to know.

I bet money it will have all the Fox charaacters. The Kang thing means nothing.

 

[DyfeddRex]

Is that Stan Lee in the black and white photo?

Kirby, sans the pipe though.

 

[Xeno]

Not essential???? One word: DOOM...

Galactus and the Silver Surfer are more important to Marvel going forward because of the growing emphasis on Cosmic Marvel. Those two characters would allow Marvel go really deep into their cosmic lore in a way that no others could.