The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 10

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I would say that this is the Fox Fantastic Four anticipation thread... if only that we're anticipating what Fox is going to do with the Fantastic Four. Will they make yet another Fant4stic? Will they make a spin-off movie? If so, who will the get to direct it? Will the film rights finally revert to Marvel? All we're doing here basically is waiting, speculating and anticipating.

And I guess Fox could make a FF film for the very, very few fans who still think that Fox are capable of doing the Fantastic Four better than Marvel. Fox, the same company that used the Thing's cheesy battle cry 'It's clobberin' time' as a phrase said by bully older brother before he gets smacked around.

Fox should get Matthew Vaughn to write and direct a Fantastic Four movie.

It seems like the obvious thing to do after the success we've seen him have with Kick-Ass, X-Men: First Class, and Kingsman. Not to mention that Vaughn also did a lot of work on Days of Future Past as well before going to do Kingsman.

It should be his next project with Kingsman 2 coming out. I think he would be the right director to do a good job.
 
If it ever looks like Fox will try to make another movie, Disney should simply sue them. They should sue them for violating the quality clause last time and making a film that damaged their intellectual property and brand.
 
Fox should get Matthew Vaughn to write and direct a Fantastic Four movie.

It seems like the obvious thing to do after the success we've seen him have with Kick-Ass, X-Men: First Class, and Kingsman. Not to mention that Vaughn also did a lot of work on Days of Future Past as well before going to do Kingsman.

It should be his next project with Kingsman 2 coming out. I think he would be the right director to do a good job.

I can't see FOX ever committing the resources to put the FF on film the right way and hire a big name director like Vaughn. Given the BO results of their last attempt the numbers simply don't work.
 
If it ever looks like Fox will try to make another movie, Disney should simply sue them. They should sue them for violating the quality clause last time and making a film that damaged their intellectual property and brand.

We have also talked about this, but I thought about it some more. This would be EXTREMELY tough to prove in court given Fox spent over 100MM just to produce the last one. Unless specifically specified in the contract, you wouldn't be able to go off RT or MC or some other subjective score. They spent money on talent like MBJ, Kate Mara, and Miles Teller. They spent money on VFX and it wasn't cheap. They spent a lot of money on advertising to the point where they lost millions of dollars. While we all know the movie sucked and anyone who watched it wanted to pluck their eyes out, this is not a sure win for Marvel/Disney. I'm sure they want to avoid such litigation.
 
We have also talked about this, but I thought about it some more. This would be EXTREMELY tough to prove in court given Fox spent over 100MM just to produce the last one. Unless specifically specified in the contract, you wouldn't be able to go off RT or MC or some other subjective score. They spent money on talent like MBJ, Kate Mara, and Miles Teller. They spent money on VFX and it wasn't cheap. They spent a lot of money on advertising to the point where they lost millions of dollars. While we all know the movie sucked and anyone who watched it wanted to pluck their eyes out, this is not a sure win for Marvel/Disney. I'm sure they want to avoid such litigation.
Even if it's difficult to prove, tie the property up in litigation to prevent anything from going in front of the cameras.
 
We have also talked about this, but I thought about it some more. This would be EXTREMELY tough to prove in court given Fox spent over 100MM just to produce the last one. Unless specifically specified in the contract, you wouldn't be able to go off RT or MC or some other subjective score. They spent money on talent like MBJ, Kate Mara, and Miles Teller. They spent money on VFX and it wasn't cheap. They spent a lot of money on advertising to the point where they lost millions of dollars. While we all know the movie sucked and anyone who watched it wanted to pluck their eyes out, this is not a sure win for Marvel/Disney. I'm sure they want to avoid such litigation.

You don't make a good film by throwing money at it. There were 1000 warning signs throughout production ( that we discussed extensively on here ) and Fox didn't stop production. There have been reports of serious on-set problems and cast and crew will be deposed to discuss what was going on on-set.

Studios can typically keep that kind of ugliness relegated to the realm of unsubstantiated internet rumor, but they won't be able to hide once people are under oath.

And the bad PR of Fox airing their dirty laundry would be enough to convince any reasonable company to just settle.

If Marvel loses, they will have spent a pittance in legal fees. If Fox wins, their stock will drop more based on the bad PR (and glaring incompetence of management) than they'll ever be able to justify with a new FF film.

... but it will never get to that, because that's the ace in Marvel's pocket. Both Fox and Marvel know they hold that ace, and Fox has no interest in making another film, so we won't see them in court.
 
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Fox should get Matthew Vaughn to write and direct a Fantastic Four movie.

It seems like the obvious thing to do after the success we've seen him have with Kick-Ass, X-Men: First Class, and Kingsman. Not to mention that Vaughn also did a lot of work on Days of Future Past as well before going to do Kingsman.

It should be his next project with Kingsman 2 coming out. I think he would be the right director to do a good job.

I can't see FOX ever committing the resources to put the FF on film the right way and hire a big name director like Vaughn. Given the BO results of their last attempt the numbers simply don't work.

I'd be surprised if Vaughn was willing to risk his career by wading into that swamp.
 
... and by the way, if Marvel ties things up in court, Fox won't be able to begin production in 2022. And if Fox doesn't start production in 2022, they lose the rights.

And I doubt there's any contingency specifically written into the contract that extends the rights because of litigation.
 
I don't think any well known respectable director would go near this unless the hottest entity in Hollywood Marvel Studios is HEAVILY involved in some form. This brand is too toxic right now. And no one here can come up with one good reason why FOX should move forward with production within the next 3 years.

What big name actor would even want their name attached to this if its not advertised as a Marvel Studios project? How much money is FOX even willing to throw at this? Marvel may have just said **** it and will wait the reversion date out. It saddens me that all those great cosmic characters and Doom will have to wait it out unless they make EGO trades.
 
I don't think any well known respectable director would go near this unless the hottest entity in Hollywood Marvel Studios is HEAVILY involved in some form. This brand is too toxic right now. And no one here can come up with one good reason why FOX should move forward with production within the next 3 years.

What big name actor would even want their name attached to this if its not advertised as a Marvel Studios project? How much money is FOX even willing to throw at this? Marvel may have just said **** it and will wait the reversion date out. It saddens me that all those great cosmic characters and Doom will have to wait it out unless they make EGO trades.

Or unless Fox trades their ego. :o
 
Even if it's difficult to prove, tie the property up in litigation to prevent anything from going in front of the cameras.

If Marvel were still an independent entity I could see this as a possibility. But Disney has close corporate ties with FOX through their joint control over Hulu and its soon to be launched skinny bundle. And they are working together on multiple programs on FOX networks. I could see the Mouse throwing money at the problem, but not lawyers.
 
If Marvel were still an independent entity I could see this as a possibility. But Disney has close corporate ties with FOX through their joint control over Hulu and its soon to be launched skinny bundle. And they are working together on multiple programs on FOX networks. I could see the Mouse throwing money at the problem, but not lawyers.

I think both companies would want to avoid legal action for a number of reasons, but if it really comes down to it... if Fox seems determined to make another crappy FF film, I think Marvel/Disney has a responsibility to their shareholders, fans and the legacy of the FF to take any means necessary to prevent it.

But if Fox values their relationship with Marvel/Disney, they also wouldn't take it that far.

Fox would be firing the first shot by moving forward with another film. Marvel would just be responding to that and legal action would be the last resort.

But if Fox pushes it to that point:

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... and by the way, if Marvel ties things up in court, Fox won't be able to begin production in 2022. And if Fox doesn't start production in 2022, they lose the rights.

And I doubt there's any contingency specifically written into the contract that extends the rights because of litigation.

IIRC, the leaked Sony emails says that Marvel claims they have veto rights over release of the movies. I'm guessing such veto would "freeze" the "ticking clock" to release a movie otherwise there's no reason Marvel wouldn't veto every single Marvel movie coming out from competitors. Same could be true here. Even if not explicitly said in the contract, it can go to litigation with a good case for the plaintiff, IMO.

I don't think any well known respectable director would go near this unless the hottest entity in Hollywood Marvel Studios is HEAVILY involved in some form. This brand is too toxic right now. And no one here can come up with one good reason why FOX should move forward with production within the next 3 years.

Fox will call Scott Buck, he'll get the whole thing done, from scratch, in 3 months.
 
Here's the thing about the rights expiring in 2022...when I look at what's working with the MCU right now and try to map out Phase 4 films, there really isn't any room for a Fantastic Four film until 2022 anyway, and even then it's a tight fit unless you bump the MCU up to four films a year. I'm not sure Disney would ever do that, because it really starts to crowd other properties (like Star Wars for example). Anything is possible, of course, but the price for that sort of decision would be at least another billion dollars of revenue per year from MCU films.

You could also introduce the team in a different film (Spider-Man/Civil War style) but even then, what film would that be? Looking ahead, the earliest choice that would make sense to me would be Black Panther 2, which could come out in 2021.

When I look at it that way, I can sorta see why Marvel would just call Fox's bluff and wait around, especially now when they've got so much going on and there's a 0% chance of a sequel to Trank's thing. If they want to do something with Black Panther 2, they still have until about 2020 to get a deal made and, the fact is, the longer they wait the greater there leverage is in negotiations.
 
Here's the thing about the rights expiring in 2022...when I look at what's working with the MCU right now and try to map out Phase 4 films, there really isn't any room for a Fantastic Four film until 2022 anyway, and even then it's a tight fit unless you bump the MCU up to four films a year. I'm not sure Disney would ever do that, because it really starts to crowd other properties (like Star Wars for example). Anything is possible, of course, but the price for that sort of decision would be at least another billion dollars of revenue per year from MCU films.

You could also introduce the team in a different film (Spider-Man/Civil War style) but even then, what film would that be? Looking ahead, the earliest choice that would make sense to me would be Black Panther 2, which could come out in 2021.

When I look at it that way, I can sorta see why Marvel would just call Fox's bluff and wait around, especially now when they've got so much going on and there's a 0% chance of a sequel to Trank's thing. If they want to do something with Black Panther 2, they still have until about 2020 to get a deal made and, the fact is, the longer they wait the greater there leverage is in negotiations.

I think there's room for 4 Marvel films ( if you add up the Fox, Sony and Marvel films, we're currently getting more than 4 films a year already). It used to be that all the big films came out in Summer, but we've seen that schedule stretched to the point we can get big films pretty much any time... but we still have a relatively small number of big films coming out.

This is probably pushing it a bit, but I could imagine Marvel doing a new film nearly every month if they wanted to. Imagine going to a Marvel film and knowing you'd have another one coming next month. Comic books worked on a monthly schedule. :cwink:

But while I think they could do a film per month, the real issue is content and that's where the FF come in.

Marvel could have easily sat back and said: "You know, people like Iron Man, Captain America and Thor. Let's just release sequels of those films every year and everybody will be happy."

But obviously they went a different route than that and mixed things up and brought in new characters and that has worked very well for them. And while Spider-Man and X-Men were getting stale, Marvel was producing different films with different flavors featuring different characters.

But what new characters do they have for the coming years? Black Panther and Captain Marvel will keep things interesting for the foreseeable future, but then what? Sure, they can pull out relatively minor characters (like Gaurdians of the Galaxy were prior to their film), but that's not as much of a sure-thing as having well-known characters to fall back on. They got a little lucky (management might say they chose wisely) with James Gunn and GOTG, but a lesser director could have easily gone sideways with a property that didn't have a built-in audience.

And people want to see the big-hitters. Iron Man and Captain America were good films, but people also wanted to see Iron Man and Captain America.

There aren't any big Marvel characters I can think of that haven't been exploited yet, so the FF would be a big injection (not only the FF, but related characters) of big, fresh, lucrative characters for Marvel to use down the road.
 
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The main issue is that there are a **** ton of characters involved with the FF that have been massive parts of the Marvel lore and are causing a lot of classic storylines and clashes to be omitted due to the tie up. Hell, if they had managed to get their **** together we would probably be having an FF/X-Men crossover at this very moment in time.
 
The main issue is that there are a **** ton of characters involved with the FF that have been massive parts of the Marvel lore and are causing a lot of classic storylines and clashes to be omitted due to the tie up. Hell, if they had managed to get their **** together we would probably be having an FF/X-Men crossover at this very moment in time.

Exactly! And I actually meant to make that point above, but got so distracted by my own BS I forgot.:cwink:

Right now Marvel has roughed out maybe 30% of the Marvel Universe. With the characters they have, they could probably eventually get to 60 or 70%, but then they hit a wall.

Without Galactus, Dr. Doom, Silver Surfer, Kang, Annihilus, Mephisto, the Negative Zone Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four etc., there are huge, important pieces of the Marvel Universe missing.
 
Can I ask, what's the latest news on the F4 rights/fox sequel?

Can't have been very big news. Sorta seems totally scrapped atm.
 
Can I ask, what's the latest news on the F4 rights/fox sequel?

Can't have been very big news. Sorta seems totally scrapped atm.

No real 'news', because Fox isn't going to talk about it. Simon Kinberg has mentioned the idea, but he's completely full of s***.

A true sequel has just about zero chance. A reboot in four years is possible, but still highly unlikely (and nobody at Fox has even suggested a reboot yet).

But the last reboot was announced in 2009 - two years after Rise of The Silver Surfer, so to keep pace with last time, they should announce a reboot this year. They technically have five years to start production, but while that might seem like a long time it's relatively short in film time.

Fox will have to start seriously talking about/working on a new film in the next few years or it's not going to happen.
 
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I think there's room for 4 Marvel films ( if you add up the Fox, Sony and Marvel films, we're currently getting more than 4 films a year already). It used to be that all the big films came out in Summer, but we've seen that schedule stretched to the point we can get big films pretty much any time... but we still have a relatively small number of big films coming out.
If Fox and WB would stop releasing superhero films I agree that then the MCU could get to four or more. I don't think that's very likely though. :(
 
If Fox and WB would stop releasing superhero films I agree that then the MCU could get to four or more. I don't think that's very likely though. :(

Well part of the premise would be that the FF would be with Marvel, so that takes at least those films away from Fox.

And unless the next few WB movies are a LOT better than what they've done recently, they might have to step back, take a break and really think about what they're doing.

But unless they're running into one another in terms of release weekends, I don't really see a problem.

Let's imagine a Superman film was opening two weeks after a Dr. Strange film. Would you, or anyone you know, say: "I'm not really interested in the Superman film. I just saw a comic-book film two weeks ago."?
 
Exactly! And I actually meant to make that point above, but got so distracted by my own BS I forgot.:cwink:

Right now Marvel has roughed out maybe 30% of the Marvel Universe. With the characters they have, they could probably eventually get to 60 or 70%, but then they hit a wall.

Without Galactus, Dr. Doom, Silver Surfer, Kang, Annihilus, Mephisto, the Negative Zone Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four etc., there are huge, important pieces of the Marvel Universe missing.

And here lays the incentive for Marvel moving forward beyond 2019. After the defeat of Thanos a villain in the making for so many years who becomes the next major threat? They make a few individual films facing minor villains until the next big ensemble flick rolls around.

Who will be the big game changer? What is the next big challenge? A lot of those guys are tied with Fox. Can they wait till 2022/2023? Or do they need to make a move now? Could this be what Fox is banking on?
 
The F4 rights aren't nearly as essential as you might think. Marvel can ask for Sony for Norman Osborn and do an adaptation of Dark reign. They don't have to go bigger and it would be a mistake to go from Thanos to Galactus. Galactus isn;t even that interesting.

There i just mapped the next two phases without needing the F4 rights :)
 
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